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What does a person have to do to believe?

sealchan

Well-Known Member
There's a series of questions that popped into my mind while I was thinking about belief and whether it is a choice. If it is a choice, then surely there is a way to achieve belief. So here's the questions:

In your religion, what does someone who doesn't believe have to do to believe?

Does this process take a long time?

If your belief involves god(s), do your god(s) reply back in a voice, a sign, or something else?

How do you know it to be real and not your imagination?

What if this person does everything but still doesn't believe?

You can answer the questions however you want, you can pick and chose the ones applicable or if the questions aren't quite right, you can explain your perspective.

I personally don't have any answers because I don't have a belief, per say but I'd love to hear from different religions. I am open to challenging my non-belief.

Edit: remembered some religions don't have gods or aren't so deity focused, so edited the questions to be more inclusive.

I was compelled to declare myself a believer does to a series of experiences I had which are largely subjective. I was pretty much an atheist by default until I suffered a personal crisis which provoked me to blame God. Taking matters into my own hands I began to rewrite the first couple of chapters of Genesis as if to remake the mythic tradition I was born into but had barely participated in.

About a year later I had a dream that involved God approaching me menacingly and the only way to save myself was to choose my special spiritual name. When I did my terror turned to ecstacy.

Aided by my study of depth psychology, comparative mythology and later cognitive science, I have been able to foster a world view that includes science and my faith as a Christian.

That, in a nutshell, is my testimony and by pathway to belief in something unprovable.
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
There's a series of questions that popped into my mind while I was thinking about belief and whether it is a choice. If it is a choice, then surely there is a way to achieve belief. So here's the questions:

In your religion, what does someone who doesn't believe have to do to believe?

Does this process take a long time?

If your belief involves god(s), do your god(s) reply back in a voice, a sign, or something else?

How do you know it to be real and not your imagination?

What if this person does everything but still doesn't believe?

You can answer the questions however you want, you can pick and chose the ones applicable or if the questions aren't quite right, you can explain your perspective.

I personally don't have any answers because I don't have a belief, per say but I'd love to hear from different religions. I am open to challenging my non-belief.

Edit: remembered some religions don't have gods or aren't so deity focused, so edited the questions to be more inclusive.

Possibly, it is distress that brings in faith but faith matures into wisdom. Distress is brought on by own actions. I think two verses from Gita will be pertinent here:

Gita

chaturvidhaa bhajante maam janaah sukritino'rjuna
aarto jijnaasurarthaarthee jnaanee cha bharatarshabha // 7.16 //


Four types of virtuous men worship Me, O Arjuna; the man in distress, the seekers of knowledge, the seekers of enjoyment and those endowed with wisdom, O the best among the Bharatas.

teshaam jnaanee nityayukta eka bhaktirvishishyate
priyo hi jnaanino'tyarthamaham sa cha mama priyah // 7.17 //

Of them the wise man, ever in constant union with the Divine, whose devotion is single minded, excels; for I am exceedingly dear to the wise and he is dear to Me.
...

 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
This reply is pretty much why I'm asking these questions. You've given me some points to think about, especially the bold part. But since I am so indecisive, it might take a while for me to chose.

Given that there is a great deal that is unknown and mysterious about the nature of our existence, your pathway through that maze must absolutely include your uniquely subjective perspective. One way to raise your awareness of your subjective truth is to pay attention to your dreams. They represent your subjective response to the world and the story of that world in which you literally find yourself.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
The great comparative mythologies Joseph Campbell often said, "Follow your bliss". That is do what calls to you most deeply or go on the search for that. When you do your personal motivation and strength of will to endure hardships and failures will be strong and your chance for great success and satisfaction will also be promoted.

Following your own path leads you to an adventure, an experience of life where you are its critical, living center. Out of that will come the power to choose morally and honestly choices that you can always learn from or live with. And you will be a light to others.
 

Ponder This

Well-Known Member
There's a series of questions that popped into my mind while I was thinking about belief and whether it is a choice. If it is a choice, then surely there is a way to achieve belief. So here's the questions:

In your religion, what does someone who doesn't believe have to do to believe?

Does this process take a long time?

If your belief involves god(s), do your god(s) reply back in a voice, a sign, or something else?

How do you know it to be real and not your imagination?

What if this person does everything but still doesn't believe?

You can answer the questions however you want, you can pick and chose the ones applicable or if the questions aren't quite right, you can explain your perspective.

I personally don't have any answers because I don't have a belief, per say but I'd love to hear from different religions. I am open to challenging my non-belief.

Edit: remembered some religions don't have gods or aren't so deity focused, so edited the questions to be more inclusive.

One method for affirming/changing a belief:

One: Write an essay
Explain in as much detail as you can why you should believe. It doesn't matter that you don't believe! Write the essay. (You can write multiple essays as time goes on) Refrain from writing essays against the belief. It's very important that you generate your own justifications. Do not simply regurgitate justifications you didn't come up with yourself.​

Two: Engage in activities that affirm the belief
This could include prayer or meditation. It could include rituals. It could include watching videos of people talk about the belief in an affirmative way. Again, it doesn't matter that you don't believe! Engage in the activity. (You might want to do this daily for optimal effect, but as long as you engage in the activity regularly, you will get there) The more various types of activity you engage in the better. Refrain from activities opposed to or inconsistent with the belief. Hanging out with believers will help immensely. Hanging out with non-believers can interfere with the process.​

Three: Debate Other People
In particular, when you debate always take the side of affirming the belief. Really try to convince other people. This is very important and it really doesn't matter that you don't believe. (I'm not sure how frequently you need to do this, but you should wait for at least one month in steps One and Two before engaging in Step Three)
Remember that you must never ever argue against the belief when talking with other people. Doing so will undermine the process. It doesn't matter if you win or lose the debates! If you win the debate, move on to convincing someone else. If you lose the debate, you can try a few more times, but don't get stuck trying to convince one person. You want to have successfully convinced at least three people minimum.​

Eventually, if you keep this up (it could take a few months or even a year or more if you are slow), you will reach a point of cognitive dissonance, where your actions and words are in conflict with your internal beliefs. Once you make it past this point, you will convince yourself that your actions are justified and you will begin to believe. This will happen automatically. The time it takes to happen varies from person to person.

Q and A:
In your religion, what does someone who doesn't believe have to do to believe?
People should do things because they believe or because they want to believe, not because they don't believe.
Does this process take a long time?
Yes.​
If your belief involves god(s), do your god(s) reply back in a voice, a sign, or something else?
Irrelevant, as long as they affirm the belief.​
How do you know it to be real and not your imagination?
Using your imagination is the first step to accepting something as real.​
What if this person does everything but still doesn't believe?
Just because a person doesn't believe yet, doesn't mean the person won't. If the person says he doesn't believe, then he has violated the process: start over.​
 

Segev Moran

Well-Known Member
There's a series of questions that popped into my mind while I was thinking about belief and whether it is a choice. If it is a choice, then surely there is a way to achieve belief. So here's the questions:
In your religion, what does someone who doesn't believe have to do to believe?
Just start learning. After a few weeks of genuine learning, the chances one wont believe are rather slim.
Does this process take a long time?
I am at the very first steps of it.
To me, it was a long and genuine study. of the old text and of the new discoveries.
It was an instant, a fraction of a moment when suddenly everything just made an absolute sense.
After that, i can't imagine a reality that doesn't include god in it.
If your belief involves god(s)
It does indeed.
do your god(s)
God
reply back in a voice,
It depends. At times it can be something that someone said.
As for "Internal" voices other than my own's, nope.
so it seems, although if i had to guess the signs are only signs because i started interpreting them as such.
The thing is that I learn how to interpret them.
Please note i DO NOT mean signs in a form of "I just saw a bird fly next to me so I am gonna be rich or something, rather suddenly understanding the way our reality works and realizing why things happen as they do thus understanding what need to be done in order to improve them.
or something else?
Many things actually, but without a doubt, the main thing is the understanding of how much i have missed out and literally realizing how ignorant i used to be.
How do you know it to be real and not your imagination?
Its a great question but a very hard one to answer.

Do you know those pictures that look like pattern and when you stare at them with a bit of a crossed eye and suddenly an image with depth appear?
Imagine someone that cannot see this image, asks one who can, how do you know it is real?
You can literally see it. you see it everywhere you go. Its like things work in a different way once you understand the "trick" to see the image.
So i can tell you i see amazing images with unlimited layers of depth. unless you manage to see it for yourself, the question of how i know it is real is pretty hard to explain.
but in my case, what gave it a very strong "nudge", was the fact the our reality and more of it as we discover each year is undoubtedly pointing to god being real.
What if this person does everything but still doesn't believe?
It can work in either way....

Do... believe... understand.
Understand...believe...do.

For me it was the later. (it is the same for you, i assume, based on your questions)
In both scenarios BTW, when the understanding part is missing, a lot of harm and abuse can be caused (as we can witness all around the world).
You can answer the questions however you want, you can pick and chose the ones applicable or if the questions aren't quite right, you can explain your perspective.
Those were great questions. I would love answering more if you wish :)
I personally don't have any answers because I don't have a belief, per say but I'd love to hear from different religions. I am open to challenging my non-belief.

Start with this:

1. Put aside religion.
2. Look deep inside and understand what kind of a person you are. (this is one of the most crucial points in the challenge to your non-belief :))
3. When realizing your "better and worse", try and understand why your "worse" is worse. (don't settle for easy answers)
4. Now try to understand your "better". this is a much tougher question to answer.
5. Then, try and study a bit of every religion. the basics. the overall "concept" of the religion.
6. After that, you will probably have a pretty good understanding which religion (if at all) gives you answers that you couldn't figure out.
7. DON"T SETTLE FOR NON-SENSE!!! An angel told me to is not a good enough answer (unless you can back it up with proof :))
8. Really, be logical. don't look at things that you know are crazy like killing yourself to get 70 virgins or starving yourself as a way to salvation. be clear minded and see what fits every aspect of our reality.

Good luck ;)
 
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