Salam
This is continuation of this thread: Is Satan an Atheist or believes in God? | Religious Forums
The thread started with a noble hadith from Imam Musa Al-Kadhim (a) (7th successor of Mohammad (s)) stating that Iblis was the first to turn on his back and become an Atheist. The word there is not disbeliever but Atheist unlike Quran which just mentions him as a disbeliever.
Some questions arise is what does Iblis then believe about the miracles which he witnesses Prophets do, and divine books, and the power the Prophets posses?
In Surah Jinn, something is revealed that a reason why a lot of them started to take side of God was because heaven rules changed, in that they weren't able to hear the plans of God and dialogue of Angels anymore:
And that we sought to reach heaven, but we found it filled with strong guards and flaming stars. And that we used to sit in some of the sitting-places thereof to steal a hearing, but he who would (try to) listen now would find a flame lying in wait for him:
The heaven was always occupied by a house chosen by God (like Family of Moses and Aaron before family of Mohammad and Ali) but it seems this was a big change that caused a lot to believe. Another revealed about these Jinn is that they now for sure realized they cannot defeat "God" nor escape him. This is revealed in the following words in the same chapter:
We know that we cannot frustrate Allah on the earth, nor can we frustrate Him by fleeing.
In Surah Ibrahim, Iblis says on the day of judgment "you cannot save me nor can I save you"
The Jinn who now became Muslims realized the power described in the Quran is a power from God. They witness it and also Quran dialogued about it, that heaven now displays powers to Jinn that they should not believe they can overthrow "God" or escape him or help Iblis escape hell or the day of judgment. In other words Surah Jinn talks about how Quran guided them to the guidance and among the things is what it discussed about the heaven and the guarding lights therein.
In Surah Al-Hijr, it is said that if a gateway would be opened to heaven and people ascended, the disbelievers would say their vision is intoxicated and they are enchanted (spell done on them) and would not accept the reality they witness. This is else where is discussed as the highest type signs which Mohammad (s) witnessed in his journey.
So the question is if Iblis and disbelieving Jinn witness this reality and this power, what do they believe about it if they don't accept it being from God?
I believe they believe Prophets (a) and Mohammad (s) and his family (a) are under logical delusion that God gives them this power and sustains them, when in reality, Satanic forces believe they generate it themselves. This is why Quran talks a lot about power being all from God when talking about miracles, and also in Surah Taha, with respect to Mohammad (s) and prayers, and his family and prayers, that God sustains them. This means they don't generate their power and light and reality, but rather, God directly sustains them and gives them this power according to Quran.
How come Iblis and his forces can't challenge this power then? They accuse the chosen ones of inheriting power and sorcery and keeping the knowledge secret. In word of Quran in refutation "Nor is he with regards to the unseen niggardly" And says 'Then he arrogantly looked and frowned. So he said "this is but sorcery inherited"'
Going back in time, the holy spirit was blown into Adam (a) and Adam (a) possessed sight and power that Angels (a) did not. So Iblis disbelieved in this greatness of the holy spirit, and so for him to not accept Adam (a), he was rejecting greatness of God vested in the holy spirit, but also he disbelieved God was right about Adam (a) and so what is his means to God?
According to Imam Jaffar (a), when Iblis swore by God, he was deceiving and lying, and so Adam (a) believed Iblis had his own God and was saying the real God wants you to challenge and compete with Ahlulbayt (a) as to reach their authority and exalted status. So don't trust in what they are telling you not to envy or look towards the blessed tree of life and light with competition and envy.
In this regard, Adam (a) was the first to believe in a possibility of another God then that of the chosen ones, and Iblis made him swerve, but when he fell from grace, he sincerely repented and realized the terrible march he did towards the tree of life and the everlasting authority which belongs to Mohammad (a) and his family (a).
This means Adam (a) sincerely wanted to become exalted and of the station of Mohammad (a) and his family (a), but while this was his injustice that lead him to swerving from the path, it's also out of love to reach this position. So it's a sin mixed with good intentions as well.
However, the highest thing for him to do and what was expected, was to reach out to the tree of life and ask them regarding the delusions and lies of Iblis, but he was hasty, and it blinded him his greed to reach such a station. But the big factor that shows Adam (a) is chosen, is when he neglected Ahlulbayt (a), he was not committed to self-deception.
Iblis did not repented and so he deceived himself into a whole darkness of views and became a disbeliever and remained on his disbelief in stubbornness. Now Iblis is very cunning and smart, but this smartness ultimately caused himself to deceive himself.
Magic to a rational person, would prove a Creator, the power vested in the chosen ones, directly sustained by Creator, but to a cunning person tricking themselves, they will say, I see the power, but I don't see the Creator. I see the light of Ahlulbayt (a) but who says it's generated by a source.
Among the first things taught by Ahlulbayt (a) to Angels was the power is from God and there is "no will or power except by God".
In fact, if Iblis believes in a Creator, it would be hard for him to remain rebellious to Adam (a) and his successors (a) and the chosen guides (a). Ultimately, if there is a Creator, he designed so they have the most power and vested in them. And the fear of hell would cause him to repent and believe. But we see that some Jinn are of the belief they can "frustrate God", of course, what that means, is the Lord of Prophets (a) and chosen ones (a) and destroy their plans. He believes he can escape the order eventually.
Quran being a book that heals through his lies, he also attacks it by his locks, but witnesses it magical effect. So what does he believe about holy books?
In this regard, he is an enemy to order of the heavens and earth, and believes either Gabriel (a) makes it up or that the exalted ones make it up or they themselves are under illusion that they hear God's voice but are deluded (their vision makes it and self-deludes themselves it's from God).
To him, Quran being higher then all other writings, would not prove anything, because he realizes already that Gabriel is a much higher eloquent and mind then him and he accuses Michael and Gabriel of either believing in veils (Ahlulbayt) by being self-deceived or they generate voice of God on delusion but it's them generating it.
So this how he is Atheist while witnessing magic, higher effects of Quran, etc, he won't accept any signs because ultimately, he has deceived himself power and higher consciousness/light does need a Creator to generate it but can be self-built.
On the day of judgment, he will realize and will admit, he didn't believe he was right and will realize his intention was selfish and even malevolent in that he wanted others to fall with him. But currently he deceives himself he is some kind of cosmic hero and wants to free humans and Jinn from the "evil" order of the universe.
Consequently, part of the reason of the Ghayba, is to protect Imam Mahdi (a) from being killed because if God allows Imam Mahdi (a) to fight all Iblis forces in the open while they try to kill him, it would be somewhat truth manifest on near scale of day of judgment and that would mean trial is over. In other words, like children of Israel realized Moses (a) can fight everyone and no need of them fighting, we can ask God that, but God doesn't want this, and wants to "hide" and make Ahlulbayt (a) appear to be vulnerable as did he in the past.
Ultimately, believers while witnessing power of heaven and sustenance from it, also believe the guards and lights therein are sustained by God and that God directly sustains them and gives them this power.
The holy books design is also not the design of Angels or Gabriel, but it's healing ways are even mysterious unknown to them while they work with it, it augments rapidly - not on deception, but on belief in it's truth. And the holy spirit and Angels working with it are trustworthy and truthful unlike Iblis forces and soothsayers who lie to themselves and others and are deceivers.
The Quran when witnessed no doubt is from God and dark forces do their best to make people not understand it's content by deceptions.
They will justify their deceptions are for greater good as they themselves think they are guided, but no doubt the deceivers and liars are evil.
This is continuation of this thread: Is Satan an Atheist or believes in God? | Religious Forums
The thread started with a noble hadith from Imam Musa Al-Kadhim (a) (7th successor of Mohammad (s)) stating that Iblis was the first to turn on his back and become an Atheist. The word there is not disbeliever but Atheist unlike Quran which just mentions him as a disbeliever.
Some questions arise is what does Iblis then believe about the miracles which he witnesses Prophets do, and divine books, and the power the Prophets posses?
In Surah Jinn, something is revealed that a reason why a lot of them started to take side of God was because heaven rules changed, in that they weren't able to hear the plans of God and dialogue of Angels anymore:
And that we sought to reach heaven, but we found it filled with strong guards and flaming stars. And that we used to sit in some of the sitting-places thereof to steal a hearing, but he who would (try to) listen now would find a flame lying in wait for him:
The heaven was always occupied by a house chosen by God (like Family of Moses and Aaron before family of Mohammad and Ali) but it seems this was a big change that caused a lot to believe. Another revealed about these Jinn is that they now for sure realized they cannot defeat "God" nor escape him. This is revealed in the following words in the same chapter:
We know that we cannot frustrate Allah on the earth, nor can we frustrate Him by fleeing.
In Surah Ibrahim, Iblis says on the day of judgment "you cannot save me nor can I save you"
The Jinn who now became Muslims realized the power described in the Quran is a power from God. They witness it and also Quran dialogued about it, that heaven now displays powers to Jinn that they should not believe they can overthrow "God" or escape him or help Iblis escape hell or the day of judgment. In other words Surah Jinn talks about how Quran guided them to the guidance and among the things is what it discussed about the heaven and the guarding lights therein.
In Surah Al-Hijr, it is said that if a gateway would be opened to heaven and people ascended, the disbelievers would say their vision is intoxicated and they are enchanted (spell done on them) and would not accept the reality they witness. This is else where is discussed as the highest type signs which Mohammad (s) witnessed in his journey.
So the question is if Iblis and disbelieving Jinn witness this reality and this power, what do they believe about it if they don't accept it being from God?
I believe they believe Prophets (a) and Mohammad (s) and his family (a) are under logical delusion that God gives them this power and sustains them, when in reality, Satanic forces believe they generate it themselves. This is why Quran talks a lot about power being all from God when talking about miracles, and also in Surah Taha, with respect to Mohammad (s) and prayers, and his family and prayers, that God sustains them. This means they don't generate their power and light and reality, but rather, God directly sustains them and gives them this power according to Quran.
How come Iblis and his forces can't challenge this power then? They accuse the chosen ones of inheriting power and sorcery and keeping the knowledge secret. In word of Quran in refutation "Nor is he with regards to the unseen niggardly" And says 'Then he arrogantly looked and frowned. So he said "this is but sorcery inherited"'
Going back in time, the holy spirit was blown into Adam (a) and Adam (a) possessed sight and power that Angels (a) did not. So Iblis disbelieved in this greatness of the holy spirit, and so for him to not accept Adam (a), he was rejecting greatness of God vested in the holy spirit, but also he disbelieved God was right about Adam (a) and so what is his means to God?
According to Imam Jaffar (a), when Iblis swore by God, he was deceiving and lying, and so Adam (a) believed Iblis had his own God and was saying the real God wants you to challenge and compete with Ahlulbayt (a) as to reach their authority and exalted status. So don't trust in what they are telling you not to envy or look towards the blessed tree of life and light with competition and envy.
In this regard, Adam (a) was the first to believe in a possibility of another God then that of the chosen ones, and Iblis made him swerve, but when he fell from grace, he sincerely repented and realized the terrible march he did towards the tree of life and the everlasting authority which belongs to Mohammad (a) and his family (a).
This means Adam (a) sincerely wanted to become exalted and of the station of Mohammad (a) and his family (a), but while this was his injustice that lead him to swerving from the path, it's also out of love to reach this position. So it's a sin mixed with good intentions as well.
However, the highest thing for him to do and what was expected, was to reach out to the tree of life and ask them regarding the delusions and lies of Iblis, but he was hasty, and it blinded him his greed to reach such a station. But the big factor that shows Adam (a) is chosen, is when he neglected Ahlulbayt (a), he was not committed to self-deception.
Iblis did not repented and so he deceived himself into a whole darkness of views and became a disbeliever and remained on his disbelief in stubbornness. Now Iblis is very cunning and smart, but this smartness ultimately caused himself to deceive himself.
Magic to a rational person, would prove a Creator, the power vested in the chosen ones, directly sustained by Creator, but to a cunning person tricking themselves, they will say, I see the power, but I don't see the Creator. I see the light of Ahlulbayt (a) but who says it's generated by a source.
Among the first things taught by Ahlulbayt (a) to Angels was the power is from God and there is "no will or power except by God".
In fact, if Iblis believes in a Creator, it would be hard for him to remain rebellious to Adam (a) and his successors (a) and the chosen guides (a). Ultimately, if there is a Creator, he designed so they have the most power and vested in them. And the fear of hell would cause him to repent and believe. But we see that some Jinn are of the belief they can "frustrate God", of course, what that means, is the Lord of Prophets (a) and chosen ones (a) and destroy their plans. He believes he can escape the order eventually.
Quran being a book that heals through his lies, he also attacks it by his locks, but witnesses it magical effect. So what does he believe about holy books?
In this regard, he is an enemy to order of the heavens and earth, and believes either Gabriel (a) makes it up or that the exalted ones make it up or they themselves are under illusion that they hear God's voice but are deluded (their vision makes it and self-deludes themselves it's from God).
To him, Quran being higher then all other writings, would not prove anything, because he realizes already that Gabriel is a much higher eloquent and mind then him and he accuses Michael and Gabriel of either believing in veils (Ahlulbayt) by being self-deceived or they generate voice of God on delusion but it's them generating it.
So this how he is Atheist while witnessing magic, higher effects of Quran, etc, he won't accept any signs because ultimately, he has deceived himself power and higher consciousness/light does need a Creator to generate it but can be self-built.
On the day of judgment, he will realize and will admit, he didn't believe he was right and will realize his intention was selfish and even malevolent in that he wanted others to fall with him. But currently he deceives himself he is some kind of cosmic hero and wants to free humans and Jinn from the "evil" order of the universe.
Consequently, part of the reason of the Ghayba, is to protect Imam Mahdi (a) from being killed because if God allows Imam Mahdi (a) to fight all Iblis forces in the open while they try to kill him, it would be somewhat truth manifest on near scale of day of judgment and that would mean trial is over. In other words, like children of Israel realized Moses (a) can fight everyone and no need of them fighting, we can ask God that, but God doesn't want this, and wants to "hide" and make Ahlulbayt (a) appear to be vulnerable as did he in the past.
Ultimately, believers while witnessing power of heaven and sustenance from it, also believe the guards and lights therein are sustained by God and that God directly sustains them and gives them this power.
The holy books design is also not the design of Angels or Gabriel, but it's healing ways are even mysterious unknown to them while they work with it, it augments rapidly - not on deception, but on belief in it's truth. And the holy spirit and Angels working with it are trustworthy and truthful unlike Iblis forces and soothsayers who lie to themselves and others and are deceivers.
The Quran when witnessed no doubt is from God and dark forces do their best to make people not understand it's content by deceptions.
They will justify their deceptions are for greater good as they themselves think they are guided, but no doubt the deceivers and liars are evil.
