What does Islam say about human rights?

[Anne1]

You speak of human rights, which, of course, have gradually improved over time.


Christians, Muslims, and all religious need to do more to help those in dire trouble. I am not trying to just condemn Muslims. There are people starving to death today who need our help

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Salam

(1) "Human rights" is a subset of rights of humans, sounds weird but it refers to rights of humans pertaining to what should be held or enforced by the government in abstract form while there will be particular applications of it that can differ given situation and circumstances.

(2) Given that this is a very logical thing to hold that there is rights in that category, and are important to deal with, if Islam is silent about the issue, then it fails to guide humanity in one of the more important issues.

(3) Human rights issues interlocks with other issues such as economical models, socialism vs capitalism, poverty, disability rights, as well as political issues and how it can be weaponized for colonialism, gender issues, and sex is also related to it. I will expand as we go in this thread.

I'm holding the definition has to be found in Islam in some form or another (1) or it's a false religion. I further argue the details of human rights has to be in Quran and Sunnah as well or it's a failed religion.

I am going to trying to prove what Islam says about these issues. I will then be further defending that it has the proper view.

I will leave a bit of room for initial feedback, and people's thoughts about the issue, before I go on.

I don't think the issue of human rights even existed until Jewish and Christian thinkers in the West developed it. It is loosely based on the idea that all humans have dignity because we are made in the image of God. Then, of course, the Atheists from the Enlightenment took the ball and ran with it.

The formative documents developing human rights were the Magna Carta (1215), the English Bill of Rights (1689), the French Declaration on the Rights of Man and Citizen (1789), the US Declaration of Independence in 1776, and the US Constitution and Bill of Rights (1791).

I'm sure if I'm mistaken, a Muslim will correct me, but I don't think the Quran says anything about human rights. Indeed, Muslim countries today are well known for their religious discrimination and oppression of women.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Then, in 1435, the pope wrote the bull Sicut Didum, which stated anyone who owned. sold, or transported slaves was excommunicated.

Really? Then why were Catholic countries like Portugal so pro-slavery, especially in their conquered lands in South America? Are you saying all these slavers, plus the government officials that supported the slave trade, were all excommunicated?

You should watch The Mission, a movie about Jesuit missionary activity among the Guarani, and the Treaty of Madrid, in which Spain handed off huge portions of South American territory to Portugal, which meant the enslavement of these same Indians the Jesuits had converted.

 

[Link]

You speak of human rights, which, of course, have gradually improved over time.

Nevertheless, Islam originally reinvigorated the slave trade. There were no real cries against slavery from Muslims; no arguments over their human rights. No one, like St. Augustine, who condemned slavery as a sin.

Arguments by Christians against slavery began with the decline of Rome. By the beginning of the Dark Ages, slavery no longer existed in Christian Europe. It was replaced by serfs, who had rights, rights that grew stronger with every century.

Then, in 1435, the pope wrote the bull Sicut Didum, which stated anyone who owned. sold, or transported slaves was excommunicated.

Yet slavery began again in Europe, and had to be ended by passionate Christians like William Wilberforce.

Muhammed himself had 40 slaves and married one of them. The Sharia has many rules regarding your slaves, including allowing slaveowners to sexually enjoy their female slaves.

Today, Pakistan has over two million slaves. Mauritania has over 90,000. Such countries as Saudi Arabia and Libya are rumored to still have many slaves.

There is Islam as is and was practiced through history. The Du'a of Imam Jewad (a) (9th successor) shows that you cannot see justice nor truth nor goodness nor light in that Islam.

That Islam is against human rights. But that Islam is the result from killing Imam Hussain (a).

There are hadiths from Ahlulbayt (a) against slavery. Moreover you might be wondering what Quran says about slavery, well, all I can say is the translations are off. In most of the places where it's seen as describing right to have sex with slaves, it's actually talking about Muta.

 

[Link]

I don't think the issue of human rights even existed until Jewish and Christian thinkers in the West developed it. It is loosely based on the idea that all humans have dignity because we are made in the image of God. Then, of course, the Atheists from the Enlightenment took the ball and ran with it.

The formative documents developing human rights were the Magna Carta (1215), the English Bill of Rights (1689), the French Declaration on the Rights of Man and Citizen (1789), the US Declaration of Independence in 1776, and the US Constitution and Bill of Rights (1791).

I'm sure if I'm mistaken, a Muslim will correct me, but I don't think the Quran says anything about human rights. Indeed, Muslim countries today are well known for their religious discrimination and oppression of women.

Did you see the letter of Imam Ali (a) to Malik Al-Asthar? I will quote some relevant parts:

Remember that the people are composed of different classes. The progress of one is dependent on the progress of every other, and none can afford to be independent of the other. We have the Army formed of the soldiers of God. We have our civil officers and their establishments, our judiciary, our revenue collectors and our public relations officers.

The general public itself consists of Muslims and other subjects and among them of merchants and craftsmen, the unemployed and the indigent. God has prescribed for them their rights, duties and obligations. They are all defined and preserved in the Holy Quran and in the traditions of his Prophet.

The army, by the grace of God, is like a fortress to the people and lends dignity to the state. It upholds the prestige of the faith and maintains the peace of the country. Without it the state cannot stand. In its turn, it cannot stand without the support of the state. Our soldiers have proved strong before the enemy because of the privilege God has given them to fight for Him; but they have their material needs to fulfil and have therefore to depend upon the income provided for them from the state revenue.

The military and civil population who pay revenue, both need the co-operation of others – the judiciary, civil officers and their establishment. The judge administers civil and criminal law; the civil officers collect revenue and attend to civil administration with the assistance of their establishment. And then there are the tradesmen and the merchants who add to the revenue of the state. It is they who run the markets and are in a better position than others to discharge social obligations.

Then there is the class of the poor and the needy, whose maintenance is an obligation on the other classes. God has given appropriate opportunity of service to one and all; then there are the rights of all these classes over the administration which the administrator has to meet with an eye on the good of the entire population – a duty which he cannot fulfill properly unless he takes personal interest in its execution and seeks help from God. Indeed, it is obligatory on him to impose this duty on himself and to bear with patience the inconveniences and difficulties incidental to his task.

There is also this part:

Remember, Maalik, that amongst your subjects there are two kinds of people: those who have the same religion as you have; they are brothers to you, and those who have religions other than that of yours, they are your equal in creation. Men of either category suffer from the same weaknesses and disabilities that human beings are inclined to, they commit sins, indulge in vices either intentionally or foolishly and unintentionally without realizing the enormity of their deeds. Let your mercy and compassion come to their rescue and help in the same way and to the same extent that you expect Allah to show mercy and forgiveness to you.

---

The red is a synonymous with the concept of human rights.

 

[Anne1]

then there are the rights of all these classes over the administration which the administrator has to meet with an eye on the good of the entire population

The red is a synonymous with the concept of human rights.

Human rights developed in the west because of Christianity. Period. You can't have slavery and human rights. And the only religion that stopped slavery was Christianity. Millions died to stop slavery. In the Middle Ages, whole religious orders were formed to pray for, and collect money to buy back slaves from Islamic countries. This is stunningly different from the experience in other countries with different reliogions.

Really? Then why were Catholic countries like Portugal so pro-slavery, especially in their conquered lands in South America? Are you saying all these slavers, plus the government officials that supported the slave trade, were all excommunicated?

Yes, Pope after pope kept issuing bulls demanding the end of slavery and excommunicating every single person who allowed slavery./. The fact that human nature is sick with sin and some people refused to listen (and likely are not enjoying the afterlife) is horrible, but does not deter from the fact that the west, and only the Christian west, stopped slavery. And did so because of Christianity.

You mentioned the movie 'The Mission'. It didn't clearly explain what happened,. King Philip the Third of Spain issued letters patent to the Jesuits so they could found the country of Paraquaria that would disallow slavery and try to help the natives. This large region held under Jesuit control lasted for two centuries, utterly disallowed slavery, and taught and cared for the natives.

Compare this history to Islam.

Islam reinvigorated the slave trade after the fall of the Roman Empire. Islam has always, always allowed slavery. Muhamed himself had 40 slaves. The Sharia allows masters to sexually enjoy their slaves. This is utterly impossible with human rights.

Today, Pakistan has over two million slaves. Mauritania has over 90,000 slaves. Such countries as Saudia Arabia and Libya are rumored to have many slaves.

Human rights are not possible if slavery is allowed.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Human rights developed in the west because of Christianity. Period. You can't have slavery and human rights. And the only religion that stopped slavery was Christianity.

Erm, there were Jewish abolitionists.

You mentioned the movie 'The Mission'. It didn't clearly explain what happened,. King Philip the Third of Spain issued letters patent to the Jesuits so they could found the country of Paraquaria that would disallow slavery and try to help the natives. This large region held under Jesuit control lasted for two centuries, utterly disallowed slavery, and taught and cared for the natives.

True, but I mentioned PORTUGAL, not Spain. When the Spanish turned over the land to the Portuguese, the immediate consequence was the enslavement of the Indians, even those who had converted to Catholicism. So were all those Portuguese all excommunicated?

Islam has always, always allowed slavery.

Chattel slavery is outlawed in every single Muslim nation today. Are there still slaves? Of course, just as there are slaves in the US. But it is illegal now.

Muhamed himself had 40 slaves. The Sharia allows masters to sexually enjoy their slaves. This is utterly impossible with human rights.

Well heck, popes owned slaves. Even Abraham owned slaves.

Today, Pakistan has over two million slaves. Mauritania has over 90,000 slaves. Such countries as Saudia Arabia and Libya are rumored to have many slaves.

And it is all illegal. In the US, 17,500 foreign nationals and 400,000 Americans are trafficked into slavery. But as I said, it is illegal.

 

[Link]

Human rights developed in the west because of Christianity. Period. You can't have slavery and human rights. And the only religion that stopped slavery was Christianity. Millions died to stop slavery. In the Middle Ages, whole religious orders were formed to pray for, and collect money to buy back slaves from Islamic countries. This is stunningly different from the experience in other countries with different reliogions.

Yes, Pope after pope kept issuing bulls demanding the end of slavery and excommunicating every single person who allowed slavery./. The fact that human nature is sick with sin and some people refused to listen (and likely are not enjoying the afterlife) is horrible, but does not deter from the fact that the west, and only the Christian west, stopped slavery. And did so because of Christianity.

You mentioned the movie 'The Mission'. It didn't clearly explain what happened,. King Philip the Third of Spain issued letters patent to the Jesuits so they could found the country of Paraquaria that would disallow slavery and try to help the natives. This large region held under Jesuit control lasted for two centuries, utterly disallowed slavery, and taught and cared for the natives.

Compare this history to Islam.

Islam reinvigorated the slave trade after the fall of the Roman Empire. Islam has always, always allowed slavery. Muhamed himself had 40 slaves. The Sharia allows masters to sexually enjoy their slaves. This is utterly impossible with human rights.

Today, Pakistan has over two million slaves. Mauritania has over 90,000 slaves. Such countries as Saudia Arabia and Libya are rumored to have many slaves.

Human rights are not possible if slavery is allowed.

Salam

Did it so because of Christianity? Or was Christianity a factor to slavery till then? Seems like more secular reasoning lead to dissolving it.

 

[Link]

You can't have slavery and human rights.

Human rights are not possible if slavery is allowed.

I agree. I would say slavery cannot have ever been allowed by God or humans rights is non-existent.

 

[Link]

Salam

I was thinking of Surah Qassas. It talks about Pharaoh in terms of heightening some of his people while belittling others. What is interesting is when Musa (a) runs away and finds himself in need. The person (hadiths have him as Shuayb (a)) who daughter's brought him and is now hiring him, can take advantage of him but says:

قَالَ إِنِّي أُرِيدُ أَنْ أُنْكِحَكَ إِحْدَى ابْنَتَيَّ هَاتَيْنِ عَلَىٰ أَنْ تَأْجُرَنِي ثَمَانِيَ حِجَجٍ ۖ فَإِنْ أَتْمَمْتَ عَشْرًا فَمِنْ عِنْدِكَ ۖ وَمَا أُرِيدُ أَنْ أَشُقَّ عَلَيْكَ ۚ سَتَجِدُنِي إِنْ شَاءَ اللَّهُ مِنَ الصَّالِحِينَ | He said, ‘Indeed I desire to marry you to one of these two daughters of mine, on condition that you hire yourself to me for eight years. And if you complete ten, that will be up to you, and I do not want to be hard on you. God willing, you will find me to a righteous person.’ | Al-Qasas : 27

I am going to make the argument, that people who hire others should not make things "hard on" their employees. The line: "and I do not want to be hard on you" is especially in context, that Musa (a) was desperate and in need of any good from God at this point:

فَسَقَىٰ لَهُمَا ثُمَّ تَوَلَّىٰ إِلَى الظِّلِّ فَقَالَ رَبِّ إِنِّي لِمَا أَنْزَلْتَ إِلَيَّ مِنْ خَيْرٍ فَقِيرٌ | So he watered [their flock] for them. Then he withdrew toward the shade and said, ‘My Lord! I am indeed in need of any good You may send down to me!’ | Al-Qasas : 24

But Shuayb (a) did not take advantage and make things hard. I believe going back to the verse:

إِنَّ فِرْعَوْنَ عَلَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَجَعَلَ أَهْلَهَا شِيَعًا يَسْتَضْعِفُ طَائِفَةً مِنْهُمْ يُذَبِّحُ أَبْنَاءَهُمْ وَيَسْتَحْيِي نِسَاءَهُمْ ۚ إِنَّهُ كَانَ مِنَ الْمُفْسِدِينَ | Indeed Pharaoh tyrannized over the land, reducing its people to factions, abasing one group of them, slaughtering their sons, and sparing their women. Indeed, He was one of the agents of corruption. | Al-Qasas : 4

There are extreme cases of oppressing others. Musa (a) unable to witness the oppression of his followers, eventually loses patience, and begins to attack people oppressing. He ends up killing a person of the government which then leads him to need to escape.

Then Musa (a) witnesses justice of a person who could've taken advantage of him and made the deal with a lot of hardship, but made a fair deal and even wedded his daughter to him.

I'm arguing Quran endorses such good treatment of wages and employees.

 

[Link]

I am going to look up some hadiths to verify this.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Salam

Did it so because of Christianity? Or was Christianity a factor to slavery till then? Seems like more secular reasoning lead to dissolving it.

It's more like slavery was universal around the world for as long as there have been cities. Pretty much every religion either supported it, or simply indirectly supported it by saying nothing against it.

They Quran says it is a good thing for slaves to be eventually freed, but by giving instructions on how to treat slaves, it implicitly supports the institution. Nowhere does the Quran call for the abolition of slavery. Muslims have a long history of having slaves, especially non-Muslim slaves. I'm not trying to single out Islam, but since it is your religion, I thought I'd comment.

On the other hand, the abolitionist movement really was run by Christians who saw that slavery violated the idea that all men have intrinsic dignity, that we are all made in the image of God. They resonated with the God who delivered Israel from slavery in Egypt.

The idea of the value of all human life took a long time to percolate, but we humans did eventually realize the grave immorality of slavery. The last country to make slavery a crime was Mauritania in 1981.

Today, illicit slavery and human trafficking hides in the shadows, and is done by a minority of people who really don't care who they harm in order to make a lot of money. They do not feel the pain of others.

 

[Link]

They Quran says it is a good thing for slaves to be eventually freed, but by giving instructions on how to treat slaves, it implicitly supports the institution. Nowhere does the Quran call for the abolition of slavery.

The Quran doesn't talk about how to treat slaves, it talks about captives (aseer) or malakat aymanihim. To be good to them.

Here is two threads in the past about slavery:

Did God ever command to slavery per Quran?

Ismail and "Hajar" One of the things I noticed in Quran, is that Quran says not a word regarding Hajar who supposedly was a slave of Abraham and Sarah and who Abraham had Ismail through. Somethings to recall is that according to the Torah, Abraham had other children before that, but it was...

www.religiousforums.com

Slavery, hadiths, Quran and how to study Islam.

Salam there is a hadith from Imam Ali: Adam did not give birth to a man who is a slave or slave woman and all people are free. Now you can dismiss the Hadith by ones that contradict it. This is one approach. Another is to rely on translations and say slavery is endorsed by Quran. another...

www.religiousforums.com

I don't believe God ever allowed it in any given time.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The Quran doesn't talk about how to treat slaves, it talks about captives (aseer) or malakat aymanihim. To be good to them.

surah 24:33 "And do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, if they desire chastity, to seek [thereby] the temporary interests of worldly life."

This verse simply accepts that Muslims will own slaves. It does not condemn slavery. It directs Muslims to not force their slaves into prostitution, not to not have slaves in the first place.

Historically, Muslims have certainly owned slaves, especially Christian slaves. For example, during the conquest of Byzantian territories, Christiaan girls and women were routinely enslaved by Muslims. Today in Sudan, there is big trouble of the Muslims in the north enslaving the Christians in the south, even though this is technically illegal.

Please remember, I'm really not trying to single Muslims out. Until very recently, every country around the world, every religion, had legal slavery, including my own.

 

[Link]

surah 24:33 "And do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, if they desire chastity, to seek [thereby] the temporary interests of worldly life."

This verse simply accepts that Muslims will own slaves. It does not condemn slavery. It directs Muslims to not force their slaves into prostitution, not to not have slaves in the first place.

Historically, Muslims have certainly owned slaves, especially Christian slaves. For example, during the conquest of Byzantian territories, Christiaan girls and women were routinely enslaved by Muslims. Today in Sudan, there is big trouble of the Muslims in the north enslaving the Christians in the south, even though this is technically illegal.

Please remember, I'm really not trying to single Muslims out. Until very recently, every country around the world, every religion, had legal slavery, including my own.

Salam



وَأَنْكِحُوا الْأَيَامَىٰ مِنْكُمْ وَالصَّالِحِينَ مِنْ عِبَادِكُمْ وَإِمَائِكُمْ ۚ إِنْ يَكُونُوا فُقَرَاءَ يُغْنِهِمُ اللَّهُ مِنْ فَضْلِهِ ۗ وَاللَّهُ وَاسِعٌ عَلِيمٌ | Marry off those who are single among you, and the upright among your male and female slaves. If they are poor, Allah will enrich them out of His grace, and Allah is all-bounteous, all-knowing. | An-Noor : 32

Here it can be that "male slaves" and "female slaves" is saying the believers, that is everyone is slave to God and so it refers to believers by "your". You got to keep in per Quran, people are slaves to God.


وَلْيَسْتَعْفِفِ الَّذِينَ لَا يَجِدُونَ نِكَاحًا حَتَّىٰ يُغْنِيَهُمُ اللَّهُ مِنْ فَضْلِهِ ۗ وَالَّذِينَ يَبْتَغُونَ الْكِتَابَ مِمَّا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ فَكَاتِبُوهُمْ إِنْ عَلِمْتُمْ فِيهِمْ خَيْرًا ۖ وَآتُوهُمْ مِنْ مَالِ اللَّهِ الَّذِي آتَاكُمْ ۚ وَلَا تُكْرِهُوا فَتَيَاتِكُمْ عَلَى الْبِغَاءِ إِنْ أَرَدْنَ تَحَصُّنًا لِتَبْتَغُوا عَرَضَ الْحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا ۚ وَمَنْ يُكْرِهْهُنَّ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ مِنْ بَعْدِ إِكْرَاهِهِنَّ غَفُورٌ رَحِيمٌ | Those who cannot afford marriage should be continent until Allah enriches them out of His grace. As for those who seek an emancipation deal from among your slaves, make such a deal with them if you know any good in them, and give them out of the wealth of Allah which He has given you. Do not compel your female slaves to prostitution when they desire to be chaste, seeking the transitory wares of the life of this world. Should anyone compel them, Allah will be forgiving and merciful to them following their compulsion. | An-Noor : 33

The first part says malakat aymanhim which is translated as slave here, and so this can be about muta and extending to marriage, and then it warns not to force believing women into prostitution. This is because muta can be used to take advantage of poor women and force them into prostitution. Actually, something like this is kind of happening in Iraq and Lebanon with abuse of Muta.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Salam



وَأَنْكِحُوا الْأَيَامَىٰ مِنْكُمْ وَالصَّالِحِينَ مِنْ عِبَادِكُمْ وَإِمَائِكُمْ ۚ إِنْ يَكُونُوا فُقَرَاءَ يُغْنِهِمُ اللَّهُ مِنْ فَضْلِهِ ۗ وَاللَّهُ وَاسِعٌ عَلِيمٌ | Marry off those who are single among you, and the upright among your male and female slaves. If they are poor, Allah will enrich them out of His grace, and Allah is all-bounteous, all-knowing. | An-Noor : 32

Here it can be that "male slaves" and "female slaves" is saying the believers, that is everyone is slave to God and so it refers to believers by "your". You got to keep in per Quran, people are slaves to God.

Oh brother. I'm rolling my eyes. Do you think the word slave in the Torah also refers to slaves to God, such as when it says the slave is the property of the master? Let's get real here. Your text does not say a slave to Allah, it simply says slave, and so obviously refers to being owned by another human being.

وَلْيَسْتَعْفِفِ الَّذِينَ لَا يَجِدُونَ نِكَاحًا حَتَّىٰ يُغْنِيَهُمُ اللَّهُ مِنْ فَضْلِهِ ۗ وَالَّذِينَ يَبْتَغُونَ الْكِتَابَ مِمَّا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ فَكَاتِبُوهُمْ إِنْ عَلِمْتُمْ فِيهِمْ خَيْرًا ۖ وَآتُوهُمْ مِنْ مَالِ اللَّهِ الَّذِي آتَاكُمْ ۚ وَلَا تُكْرِهُوا فَتَيَاتِكُمْ عَلَى الْبِغَاءِ إِنْ أَرَدْنَ تَحَصُّنًا لِتَبْتَغُوا عَرَضَ الْحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا ۚ وَمَنْ يُكْرِهْهُنَّ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ مِنْ بَعْدِ إِكْرَاهِهِنَّ غَفُورٌ رَحِيمٌ | Those who cannot afford marriage should be continent until Allah enriches them out of His grace. As for those who seek an emancipation deal from among your slaves, make such a deal with them if you know any good in them, and give them out of the wealth of Allah which He has given you.

The translation here uses the expression "As for," which in English means you are changing topics. Thus the word slave here is a different topic than marriage.

Do not compel your female slaves to prostitution when they desire to be chaste, seeking the transitory wares of the life of this world. Should anyone compel them, Allah will be forgiving and merciful to them following their compulsion. | An-Noor : 33

The first part says malakat aymanhim which is translated as slave here, and so this can be about muta and extending to marriage, and then it warns not to force believing women into prostitution. This is because muta can be used to take advantage of poor women and force them into prostitution. Actually, something like this is kind of happening in Iraq and Lebanon with abuse of Muta.

Female slaves who desire to be chaste are not at all the same thing as believing women.

I looked up the definition of "muta," which means a temporary marriage, and not slavery at all. The fact that there are those who abuse muta in no way means this is a relationship of an owned slave and their master.

Even in the west, married women are sometimes abused and exploited by our husbands. This is not slavery. It's abuse.

 

[Link]

Your text does not say a slave to Allah, it simply says slave, and so obviously refers to being owned by another human being.

So when Quran says "their Prophet", what does it mean? It means the Prophet is owned by those people?

 

[Link]

The fact that there are those who abuse muta in no way means this is a relationship of an owned slave and their master.

Muta can be abused to make money off women (pimping) and this does occur. Having sex for money, is same as prostitution.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Muta can be abused to make money off women (pimping) and this does occur. Having sex for money, is same as prostitution.

Yes, but its not the same as slavery.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

So when Quran says "their Prophet", what does it mean? It means the Prophet is owned by those people?

Possessive forms in English do not always imply that something is literally owned property. For example, I can say "my mom"