What does it mean to "believe" in Jesus? Do Muslims and Christian UU's "believe" in Jesus?

[punkdbass]

It sounds like a simple question, but there are hundred of Christian denominations that differ on the answer to this question.

Matthew, Mark, and Luke don't have a clear answer to this question, in fact I'm not even sure the concept of "believing in Jesus" is even present in all the gospels. I'm not sure about John since I'm taking notes on his gospel now. Anyhow:

1. What does it mean to "believe" in Jesus?
2. Do Muslims "believe" in Jesus?
3. Do Christian's who believe it is possible for non-Christians to go to heaven, still "believe" in Jesus by having such a belief? (a belief more dominant in Christian Universalism)

Sorry if these questions seem silly, but I just feel like the answers to these questions really arent that simple or black and white as churches often try to make them be, which is why I am curious to learn more.

EDIT: To give you an idea of what I mean: although James is quite clear that faith without works can't save, many times throughout the New Testament it says that "if you believe in Jesus you shall gain eternal life" ... okay, so what exactly does it mean to believe in Jesus?

 

[F0uad]

I think this should have been on the Dir section but ill post the two answers on how i understand Islam.

1. In my Islamic perspective believing in all prophets and messengers is a obligation its not that you rule one out so you have to belief in Jesus(p) and all the previous messengers/prophets before you can call yourself a Muslim.

2. Yes but as a Messiah, Prophet of god, Messenger of god and not as the physical/begotten son or a part of god what is blasphemous according to Islam.

 

[punkdbass]

I think this should have been on the Dir section but ill post the two answers on how i understand Islam.

1. In my Islamic perspective believing in all prophets and messengers is a obligation its not that you rule one out so you have to belief in Jesus(p) and all the previous messengers/prophets before you can call yourself a Muslim.

2. Yes but as a Messiah, Prophet of god, Messenger of god and not as the physical/begotten son or a part of god what is blasphemous according to Islam.

Thanks for your reply, and I am very interesting in hearing replies from Christians, Muslims, and people of any other faith who read the NT and have an opinion on the matter, which is why I posted this thread in the religious debates forum for all to participate in.

And okay so by "Believing" in Jesus you take it to mean that he is the messiah, prophet, and messenger of God. I kind of thought this is what Islam believed on the subject, and I am definitely interested in comparing the views of Christianity and Islam on the topic.

 

[F0uad]

Yes there are some huge differences some claim that these are the biggest difference between the two.. the nature and role of Jesus(p) between the two i could say the concept of god but again he is a part of it.

I think you should also look into the branches of both religion on what they have to say.


Ps: How far are you in the bible now?

 

[glass]

It sounds like a simple question, but there are hundred of Christian denominations that differ on the answer to this question.

I am a former Christian and I remember a few things.

1. What does it mean to "believe" in Jesus?

In the common Christian view (Catholic, Orthodox, Old Protestants), believing in Jesus means to believe both that He is the Messiah and that He is the Son of God.
Also this belief most usually comes with the belief in the Holy Trinity.

I also know a little about the smaller denominations.
Would you care to specify which denominations you are interested in?

2. Do Muslims "believe" in Jesus?

I believe that they believe that He is the Messiah as well? (Am I right F0uad?)
But that the He is NOT the Son of God and that He is NOT the Last Prophet (the Last Prophet is Muhammad)

3. Do Christian's who believe it is possible for non-Christians to go to heaven, still "believe" in Jesus by having such a belief?
(a belief more dominant in Christian Universalism)

The mainstream Christians (Catholic, Orthodox, Old Protestants) believe that it is up to God's/Jesus'/Holy Trinity's decision, justice and mercy to judge the non-believers. For all you know, they might have lived good lives on earth.

I believe it is similar to how God judges Gentiles in the Jewish religion.
That is, if they follow the The Seven Laws of Noah (Hebrew: שבע מצוות בני נ&#1495.

 

[rusra02]

It sounds like a simple question, but there are hundred of Christian denominations that differ on the answer to this question.

Matthew, Mark, and Luke don't have a clear answer to this question, in fact I'm not even sure the concept of "believing in Jesus" is even present in all the gospels. I'm not sure about John since I'm taking notes on his gospel now. Anyhow:

1. What does it mean to "believe" in Jesus?
2. Do Muslims "believe" in Jesus?
3. Do Christian's who believe it is possible for non-Christians to go to heaven, still "believe" in Jesus by having such a belief? (a belief more dominant in Christian Universalism)

Sorry if these questions seem silly, but I just feel like the answers to these questions really arent that simple or black and white as churches often try to make them be, which is why I am curious to learn more.

EDIT: To give you an idea of what I mean: although James is quite clear that faith without works can't save, many times throughout the New Testament it says that "if you believe in Jesus you shall gain eternal life" ... okay, so what exactly does it mean to believe in Jesus?

I believe that believing in Jesus or exercising faith in Jesus involves far more than believing he is the Son of God, and provided the ransom sacrifice for our sins. Consider the following scriptures:

Matthew 16:24,25: "If anyone wants to come after me, let him disown himself and pick up his torture stake and continually follow me." (note the need to continually follow the Christ, even enduring suffering to do so.)

Matthew 10:22: "You will be objects of hatred by all people on account of my name; but he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved." (note that endurance to the end is required to be saved)

Matthew 28:19,20: "Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations..., teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you." (Christians must observe all Christ's teachings)

The early Christians did not believe mere faith or belief is sufficient for salvation. Jesus messages to the seven congregations in Revelation 2 and 3 indicated they must be faithful to their master. For example: Revelation 2:10 records Jesus saying: "The Devil will keep on throwing some of you into prison that you ay be fully put to the test, and that you may have tribulation ten days. Prove yourself faithful even to death, and I will give you the crown of life."

(There are many similar scriptures that show mere belief in Christ is NOT enough for salvation.)

 

[Pastek]

It sounds like a simple question, but there are hundred of Christian denominations that differ on the answer to this question.

Yes, i also think it can be different from a christian to another.

For what i understand, most of time "believe in Jesus" means believe that he is the only way to get salvation. Maybe I'm wrong

I remember watching some videos on youtube, and that some christians sometimes said to muslims that we have to "accept" Jesus.
And they know perfectly that we believe in Jesus.
So, i think that it means someting more than just believe in him as the Messiah, at his story etc

 

[Bob Dixon]

My guess would be to believe that he is the Christ and to believe that his teachings are good, including ethical treatment of others, monotheism, and the coming of the Kingdom of God (supplied with the idea that this "Kingdom" is within us and not a physical "kingdom").

Christians, Muslims, and Christian UUs seem to fulfil these rather minimal criteria, actually.

 

[punkdbass]

Yes there are some huge differences some claim that these are the biggest difference between the two.. the nature and role of Jesus(p) between the two i could say the concept of god but again he is a part of it.

I think you should also look into the branches of both religion on what they have to say.


Ps: How far are you in the bible now?

I am currently on John, although I've read 1 Peter, James, 1 John as well. I'm going at a somewhat slow pace because I'm taking notes. And once I finish the NT I'm going to start reading the Quran!

 

[punkdbass]

My guess would be to believe that he is the Christ and to believe that his teachings are good, including ethical treatment of others, monotheism, and the coming of the Kingdom of God (supplied with the idea that this "Kingdom" is within us and not a physical "kingdom").

Christians, Muslims, and Christian UUs seem to fulfil these rather minimal criteria, actually.

This is the basic answer I see from Matthew, Mark, and Luke(havent finished John) - to accept that he is the messiah, and presumably to follow him because he leads people to God.

Yes, i also think it can be different from a christian to another.

For what i understand, most of time "believe in Jesus" means believe that he is the only way to get salvation. Maybe I'm wrong

I remember watching some videos on youtube, and that some christians sometimes said to muslims that we have to "accept" Jesus.
And they know perfectly that we believe in Jesus.
So, i think that it means someting more than just believe in him as the Messiah, at his story etc

Thanks for the reply, and yea I have heard evangelical Christians say that Muslims do not "believe" in Jesus. So I'm pretty sure in evangelical Christianity, accepting Jesus as the messiah isn't enough rather you have to accept the dogma behind his atoning sacrifice.

I believe that believing in Jesus or exercising faith in Jesus involves far more than believing he is the Son of God, and provided the
ransom sacrifice for our sins. Consider the following scriptures...

I would agree, I think it also means to take action, to follow Jesus and act as he did.

 

[Sleeppy]

Believing in His purpose for mankind and for themselves. To believe in Him as the gospels say is to believe the things recorded of Him in them - being mankind's Savior, the unblemished sacrifice who was raised from death to the right hand of the Father, the Son of God, who came and will come to fulfill the Scriptures, etc. Also, believe that they have a role to fulfill themselves. Faith, love, etc.

 

[F0uad]

I am currently on John, although I've read 1 Peter, James, 1 John as well. I'm going at a somewhat slow pace because I'm taking notes. And once I finish the NT I'm going to start reading the Quran!

Just a quick question can you read hebrew or arabic?

 

[Shermana]

It sounds like a simple question, but there are hundred of Christian denominations that differ on the answer to this question.

Matthew, Mark, and Luke don't have a clear answer to this question, in fact I'm not even sure the concept of "believing in Jesus" is even present in all the gospels. I'm not sure about John since I'm taking notes on his gospel now. Anyhow:

1. What does it mean to "believe" in Jesus?
2. Do Muslims "believe" in Jesus?
3. Do Christian's who believe it is possible for non-Christians to go to heaven, still "believe" in Jesus by having such a belief? (a belief more dominant in Christian Universalism)

Sorry if these questions seem silly, but I just feel like the answers to these questions really arent that simple or black and white as churches often try to make them be, which is why I am curious to learn more.

EDIT: To give you an idea of what I mean: although James is quite clear that faith without works can't save, many times throughout the New Testament it says that "if you believe in Jesus you shall gain eternal life" ... okay, so what exactly does it mean to believe in Jesus?

This is a great question, especially for the oft-abused John 3:16.

I believe the word "Piston" means "To be persuaded by", not "To blindly believe without evidence". It also means "To accept and obey because you are persuaded by", like "I believe in my teacher" would have the connotation that I follow everything he says and believe in all his teachings. Thus to "believe in" Jesus would actually involve obeying Jesus's teachings.

And one thing I've noticed is that many if not most "Christians" have a hostile, outright aversion to the idea of having to actually obey Jesus's teachings, let alone the Torah which he upheld. As soon as you place any kind of restrictions on behavior due to compliance ("belief in") with his teachings, you are accused of legalism or this or that.

Thus, I posit that virtually no "Christians" actually "believe in" Jesus. I don't even think the Greeks had a word for "believe in" apart from "be persuaded by" like we do in modern English. I posit that virtually all "Christians" are basically being idolatrous with their idea of "believe in". Their idea of "believe" has nothing to do with the context of John 3:16. I believe at least. They may say that one must believe Jesus rose from the dead and died for their sins....however, that's not at all what the text says.

If anything, what most "Christians" believe in by the Greek definition is their pastors who use the NT text, not Jesus. How many "Christians" are even concerned about Jesus's teachings as opposed to just the idea that he "died for their sins" part?

 

[Bob Dixon]

Dearest Shermana, how extensive is your knowledge of Greek?

 

[Shermana]

Dearest Shermana, how extensive is your knowledge of Greek?

Still learning, intermediate level. My French is probably better. Nonetheless, that doesn't mean I can't discuss it and see the same things other are saying.

 

[Bob Dixon]

Still learning, intermediate level. My French is probably better. Nonetheless, that doesn't mean I can't discuss it and see the same things other are saying.

So... can I take your definition of "Piston" on good authority?
Or can you back it up with an external source?

Because I like it, but I need credible sources so that I can decimate peoples' arguments in the future.

 

[Shermana]

So... can I take your definition of "Piston" on good authority?
Or can you back it up with an external source?

Because I like it, but I need credible sources so that I can decimate peoples' arguments in the future.

No problem. I wouldn't take my word at face value either. And I should have spelled it out as "Pisteuon".

Strong's Greek: 4100. ??????? (pisteuó) -- to believe, entrust

4100 pisteúō (from 4102 /pístis, "faith," derived from 3982 /peíthō, "persuade, be persuaded") – believe (affirm, have confidence); used of persuading oneself (= human believing) and with the sacred significance of being persuaded by the Lord (= faith-believing). Only the context indicates whether 4100 /pisteúō ("believe") is self-serving (without sacred meaning), or the believing that leads to/proceeds from God's inbirthing of faith.

The last definition is a bit of an "audience-pleaser" instead of a direct meaning, which we commonly see in Strong's definitions, BUT let's look at just a few other uses, we can look at more if you want:

Matthew 21:32

NAS: of righteousness and you did not believe him; but the tax collectors

Here we see that "believe" refers to "believe what he has to say".

Now let's look at a better example of "believe on/in" which is closer to the "believe on" in John 3:16.

John 14:12 says that whoever believes in Jesus will be able to do the works he does.

NAS: I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works

Hmmmm....I can't say I've ever met a single "Christian" who "believes in" Jesus has ever done a single miracle or work like him. So it most clearly would have to mean that those who obey all his teachings and follow his rules, would it not?

 

[Bob Dixon]

No problem. I wouldn't take my word at face value either. And I should have spelled it out as "Pisteuon".

Strong's Greek: 4100. ??????? (pisteuó) -- to believe, entrust

The last definition is a bit of an "audience-pleaser" instead of a direct meaning, which we commonly see in Strong's definitions, BUT let's look at just a few other uses, we can look at more if you want:

Matthew 21:32

Here we see that "believe" refers to "believe what he has to say".

Now let's look at a better example of "believe on/in" which is closer to the "believe on" in John 3:16.

John 14:12 says that whoever believes in Jesus will be able to do the works he does.

Hmmmm....I can't say I've ever met a single "Christian" who "believes in" Jesus has ever done a single miracle or work like him. So it most clearly would have to mean that those who obey all his teachings and follow his rules, would it not?

Thanks! This is quite useful to me.
Is this word the word that is always used for faith/belief in the New Testament?

 

[Gharib]

I think this should have been on the Dir section but ill post the two answers on how i understand Islam.

1. In my Islamic perspective believing in all prophets and messengers is a obligation its not that you rule one out so you have to belief in Jesus(p) and all the previous messengers/prophets before you can call yourself a Muslim.

2. Yes but as a Messiah, Prophet of god, Messenger of god and not as the physical/begotten son or a part of god what is blasphemous according to Islam.

Same here. Good post brother.

F0uad's statement is the correct Islamic view on this matter.

It is a condition to accept all the Prophets of God before one is or becomes a Muslim. And we don't believe that anything in existence is divine in any way, other than God.

 

[punkdbass]

Same here. Good post brother.

F0uad's statement is the correct Islamic view on this matter.

It is a condition to accept all the Prophets of God before one is or becomes a Muslim. And we don't believe that anything in existence is divine in any way, other than God.

Interesting. Do you believe in angels as being divine? Is man divine at all, at least in the sense that he is made in the divine image?

Just a quick question can you read hebrew or arabic?

I think you've asked me this before but no sadly the only language I know is english. I can read Hebrew prayers but thats it.