What Does Passover/Easter Holyday/Holiday Mean To You?

[Elihoenai]

Sorry, I stand by what I said. Christians may use Passover as a metaphor for Jesus' death, but this is figurative, not literal. This passage doesn't actually claim that Christians keep the feast of Passover which remembers THE EXODUS. Notice there is nothing in your verse about THE EXODUS.

Quartodecimanism

"Quartodecimanism (from the Vulgate Latin quarta decima in Leviticus 23:5,[1] meaning fourteenth) is the name given to the practice of celebrating the death of Christ on the day of Passover, the 14th of Nisan according to biblical dating, on whatever day of the week it occurs. The Quartodeciman controversy in the Church was the question of whether to celebrate Easter on Sunday (the first day of the week), or on Passover (the time of sacrifice of the Passover lamb)..."


Background

"...Of the disputes over the date when the Lord's Supper (Eucharist) should be celebrated, disputes known as Paschal/Easter controversies, the quartodeciman is the first recorded.

In the mid–2nd century, the practice in Asia Minor was for the pre-Paschal fast to end with a feast held on the 14th day of Nisan, when the barley was ripe after the new moon near the Jewish lunar month of Nisan (no matter the day of the week on which it occurred), the date on which the Passover sacrifice had been offered when the Second Temple stood, and "the day when the people put away the leaven".[26] Those who observed this practice were called quartodecimani, Latin for "fourteenthers", because of holding their celebration on the 14th day of Nisan.

The practice had been followed by Polycarp, who was a disciple of John the Apostle and bishop of Smyrna (c. 69 – c. 155) - one of the seven churches of Asia, and by Melito of Sardis (d. c. 180).[26] Irenaeus says that Polycarp visited Rome when Anicetus was its bishop (c. 68–153), and among the topics discussed was this divergence of custom, with Rome celebrating the Easter always on Sunday. Irenaeus noted:

Neither could Anicetus persuade Polycarp not to observe what he had always observed with John the disciple of our Lord, and the other apostles with whom he had associated; neither could Polycarp persuade Anicetus to observe it, as he said that he ought to follow the customs of the presbyters that had preceded him.

— Eusebius 1890, Book V Chapter 24...."

Quartodecimanism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Elihoenai]

I think you have misunderstood her. She didn't change Lenten tradition. She is simply pointing out that the reason she doesn't fast is because she is over 60 and it is no longer required by that tradition. As a Jew used to fasting on Yom Kippur and other days, religions generally provide exceptions such as pregnancy, illness, being a kid, etc.

Matthew 17:20-21

20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.


Let's hear what @Kathryn has to say, since she is an adult that can speak for herself.

In Real Christianity Prayer and Fasting is a Requirement for building Powerful Faith.

 

[2ndpillar]

That's true today. It hasn't always been true. There was a time when it was the only Christian show in town.

At one time, it was the only church supported by the Roman empire, which is to say, supported by the "another king/beast" of Daniel 7:24-25, and Revelation 13:11, the ever-present Roman emperor Constantine, who was to "deceive" those who "dwell on the earth". Other churches or people with different dogmas were crushed or burned at the stake. It was conceived at Constantine's Council of Nicaea and is still puttering along, waiting for its demise (Daniel 7:26 & Rev 18). The Catholic church is not monolithic. The eastern church alone has 23 subsets. The one with the most notoriety at this time is the church of Moscow, which supports Putin. The largest would be the Roman Catholic Church, in which its Marxist pope is failing as the days pass. Will they have another pope, the fat lady has not sung as of yet.

 

[2ndpillar]

Yes. Primarily Protestant, due to their insistence on Bible only, which simply isn't sufficient to assure unity.

They are divided because their leader is the false prophet Paul, who is all things to all people, according to him. You can believe what you want to believe, and apparently people believe what they choose to believe.

 

[2ndpillar]

I'm sure you were just being funny with your remark about Luther escaping the Inquistion.

No, Luther escaped the Iniquistion, and the German princes gave him sanctuary. Otherwise, he would have been roasted on a stick.

The Edict of Worms was a decree issued on 25 May 1521 by Emperor Charles V. Its contents proscribed Luther's writings, declaring him a heretic and an enemy of the state, even permitting anyone to kill Luther without legal consequence; the imperial ban.

Diet of Worms - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

When Martin Luther eventually emerged from Wartburg, the emperor, distracted with other matters, did not press for Luther's arrest. Ultimately, because of rising public support for Luther among the German people and the protection of certain German princes, the Edict of Worms was never enforced in Germany. However, in the Habsburg Netherlands, comprising present-day Belgium, Luxembourg, and the Netherlands, the Edict was initially enforced against Luther's most active supporters. This could be done because these countries were under the direct rule of Emperor Charles V and his appointed regent, Margaret of Austria, Duchess of Savoy and Charles' aunt.

In December 1521, Jacob Proost, prior of the Augustinian monastery in Antwerp, was the first Luther-supporting cleric to be arrested and prosecuted under the terms of the Worms Edict. In February 1522, Proost was compelled to make public recantation and repudiation of Luther's teachings. Later that year, additional arrests were made among the Augustinians in Antwerp. Two monks, Jan van Essen and Hendrik Vos, refused to recant; on 1 July 1523, they were burned at the stake in Brussels.[13]

 

[2ndpillar]

Fauci? Who the hell is talking about Fauci? Looks like you new favored strategy is to simply contaminate what used to be an honest discussion with wild accusations and irrelevant information.

When you rely on elite academia for your credentials, those credentials need to be debased. The lies of the elites, went in tandem and supported the lies made by Fauci, which overall, helped in the death of millions in the past, and potential millions having been damaged. The Marxist elite academics are now at the helm of the Universities who produce riots calling for the death of the Jews. Well, the Progressive Jews have supported the liberal agenda for years, it is only justice that the Progressives academia bite the Jews and Israel. If one lets a beast into their house, you can expect to get bitten. This is all in line with Zechariah 14:1-2. An honest discussion would not include the false hoods you have supported or making accusations of "wild accusations". I support my data with Scripture and independent non secular sources. You appear to be a captive of academia, MSNBC, CNN, and the Roman Church writings. The birthplace of today's academia was the church. and the church remains solidly in academia. Harvard stands as a prime example.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

No, Luther escaped the Iniquistion, and the German princes gave him sanctuary.

In 1521, Luther was summoned to the Diet of Worms, where he was ordered to recant his writings that challenged the authority of the Pope and the Catholic Church. Refusing to recant, he famously declared, "Here I stand, I can do no other." I believe this is probably the incident that you are thinking of.

However, this event didn't involve the Inquisition directly.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

At one time, it was the only church supported by the Roman empire,

Oh, I'm thinking WAY before that. The Gentile churches established by Paul and some of the other Apostles were referred to as the Catholic Church by the end of the first century. In his letter to the Smyrnaeans, Ignatius of Antioch (died 110 CE) wrote, "Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Matthew 17:20-21

20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.


Let's hear what @Kathryn has to say, since she is an adult that can speak for herself.

In Real Christianity Prayer and Fasting is a Requirement for building Powerful Faith.

How does this in any way respond to what I said? SMH

 

[2ndpillar]

In 1521, Luther was summoned to the Diet of Worms, where he was ordered to recant his writings that challenged the authority of the Pope and the Catholic Church. Refusing to recant, he famously declared, "Here I stand, I can do no other." I believe this is probably the incident that you are thinking of.

However, this event didn't involve the Inquisition directly.

The Inquisition is where the state, the Roman emperors, crowned by the church, prosecute the people, such as Joan of Arc, and the church clerics act as the prosecutors. Luther was found guilty of heresy, which is punishable by death. He found sanctuary in Germany, protected by the German princes. His followers were not so lucky and wound up being torched at the stake.

Diet of Worms - Wikipedia​

en.wikipedia.org

When Martin Luther eventually emerged from Wartburg, the emperor, distracted with other matters, did not press for Luther's arrest. Ultimately, because of rising public support for Luther among the German people and the protection of certain German princes, the Edict of Worms was never enforced in Germany. However, in the Habsburg Netherlands, comprising present-day Belgium, Luxembourg, and the Netherlands, the Edict was initially enforced against Luther's most active supporters. This could be done because these countries were under the direct rule of Emperor Charles V and his appointed regent, Margaret of Austria, Duchess of Savoy and Charles' aunt.

In December 1521, Jacob Proost, prior of the Augustinian monastery in Antwerp, was the first Luther-supporting cleric to be arrested and prosecuted under the terms of the Worms Edict. In February 1522, Proost was compelled to make public recantation and repudiation of Luther's teachings. Later that year, additional arrests were made among the Augustinians in Antwerp. Two monks, Jan van Essen and Hendrik Vos, refused to recant; on 1 July 1523, they were burned at the stake in Brussels.[13]

 

[Kathryn]

Does that mean you have never Fasted for Lent? Were you born and raised Roman Catholic?

Oh no, I wasn't raised Roman Catholic but I have fasted before. I just don't now.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Quartodecimanism

"Quartodecimanism (from the Vulgate Latin quarta decima in Leviticus 23:5,[1] meaning fourteenth) is the name given to the practice of celebrating the death of Christ on the day of Passover, the 14th of Nisan according to biblical dating, on whatever day of the week it occurs. The Quartodeciman controversy in the Church was the question of whether to celebrate Easter on Sunday (the first day of the week), or on Passover (the time of sacrifice of the Passover lamb)..."


Background

"...Of the disputes over the date when the Lord's Supper (Eucharist) should be celebrated, disputes known as Paschal/Easter controversies, the quartodeciman is the first recorded.

In the mid–2nd century, the practice in Asia Minor was for the pre-Paschal fast to end with a feast held on the 14th day of Nisan, when the barley was ripe after the new moon near the Jewish lunar month of Nisan (no matter the day of the week on which it occurred), the date on which the Passover sacrifice had been offered when the Second Temple stood, and "the day when the people put away the leaven".[26] Those who observed this practice were called quartodecimani, Latin for "fourteenthers", because of holding their celebration on the 14th day of Nisan.

The practice had been followed by Polycarp, who was a disciple of John the Apostle and bishop of Smyrna (c. 69 – c. 155) - one of the seven churches of Asia, and by Melito of Sardis (d. c. 180).[26] Irenaeus says that Polycarp visited Rome when Anicetus was its bishop (c. 68–153), and among the topics discussed was this divergence of custom, with Rome celebrating the Easter always on Sunday. Irenaeus noted:

Neither could Anicetus persuade Polycarp not to observe what he had always observed with John the disciple of our Lord, and the other apostles with whom he had associated; neither could Polycarp persuade Anicetus to observe it, as he said that he ought to follow the customs of the presbyters that had preceded him.

— Eusebius 1890, Book V Chapter 24...."

Quartodecimanism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Oh Please. I already know about all this. None of it contradicts my point.

 

[2ndpillar]

Oh, I'm thinking WAY before that. The Gentile churches established by Paul and some of the other Apostles were referred to as the Catholic Church by the end of the first century. In his letter to the Smyrnaeans, Ignatius of Antioch (died 110 CE) wrote, "Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."

The term "Catholic church" means universal Christian church. There has never been a universal Christian church. Constantine was the guy with the power to try and correct that deficit, and unify his empire, and he failed, and had to keep burning books and proclaiming death for anyone found with writings of Arius.. Actually, Constantine's son supported this Arian church, which was in opposition to the Trinity church dogma. Paul's church, the "Christian" church is simply a daughter of the church of Babel, the church of confusion, which is the opposition church to the gospel of the kingdom, which is the gospel of lawlessness/wickedness, the false gospel of grace, versus the gospel of righteousness (Matthew 13:38-42). It is only after the judgment of Judah and Jerusalem (Malachi 3:5), which happens according to Zechariah 14:1-2, the "day of the LORD", that "you will again distinguish between the righteous and the wicked" (Malachi 3:18). As for "Ignatius", he would be among the "fathers" of the "nation"/Gentiles who as with respect to Jeremiah 16:19, which refers to after the "day of distress", such as the "day of the LORD", whereas the "nations"/Gentiles (Gentile church) will declare, "our fathers have inherited nothing but falsehood. The church of Paul, the church of "those who commit lawlessness" (Mt 13:41), will come to an end at the "end of the age", which we are now in (Mt 13:30 & Mt 24:21-27). Revelation 13 & 17 makes clear that the beast/emperors/kings get their authority from the dragon/devil, and that the church/Babylon, sits on the power/backs of the beasts/kings, in which Constantine was the 7th head of the beast per Revelation 17:10, who is the same "another" king of Daniel 7:24, following the 4th beast who had 10 horns, that being Julius Caesar and his following 10 Augustus Caesars, who were to trample all of the previous kingdoms/beasts (Daniel 7:19). It is the Roman Catholic church which crowned the pre early 20th century Roman emperor kings. It is her daughter, the church of England, which crowns the current English kings. The church is about to be thrown down (Rev 18:2), but still has impetus to keep standing. As for Jacob/Israel, they have "Jacob's distress" to finish with (Jeremiah 30:7). Ignatius has no useful information for Jew or Greek, as said in Jeremiah 16:19, only adds "falsehoods".

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The Inquisition is where the state, the Roman emperors, crowned by the church, prosecute the people, such as Joan of Arc, and the church clerics act as the prosecutors.

I don't know where you get this idea. Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain certainly weren't Roman emperors. Joan of Arc was tried by an ecclesiastical court convened by a bishop, not the King of France.

Luther was found guilty of heresy, which is punishable by death.

Yes, but not by the Inquisition. It was through papal bulls issued by Pope Leo X that Luther's teachings were declared heretical.

He found sanctuary in Germany, protected by the German princes. His followers were not so lucky and wound up being torched at the stake.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander -- 70,000 Catholics were executed by Henry VIII after his break from Rome.

It was simply an age where people were willing to kill over heresy--a common European culture, not limited to any particular sect. Although I disagree with that take, perhaps I can explain it to you a bit. European Christianity looked upon this life as fleeting. It was what happened after death that was important, because the soul was thought to be eternal. Thus, any harm that could be done in this life paled in comparison to anything or anyone that would land you in hell for all eternity. Thus, they concluded that a heretic was the most dangerous of all human beings, and Christian society had to be protected from them.

Diet of Worms - Wikipedia​

I'm already quite familiar with this. It doesn't contradict my point.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Constantine was the guy with the power

You just never learn. Given this start to your post, I simply didn't bother reading the rest, since obviously you are not reading mine.

 

[2ndpillar]

You just never learn. Given this start to your post, I simply didn't bother reading the rest, since obviously you are not reading mine.

Saying that Constantine didn't have influence over the Council of Nicaea, when he was the one who convened it, presided over it, and provided the venue, is a bit like having your head in the sand. But then again, that is how the woke get by in their daily lives.

Emperor Constantine the Great played a pivotal role in the Council of Nicaea, as he not only convened the gathering but also actively participated in its proceedings. The Council of Nicaea and the battle for the soul of Christianity

 

[2ndpillar]

Yes, but not by the Inquisition. It was through papal bulls issued by Pope Leo X that Luther's teachings were declared heretical.

The pope, until 1968 presided over the Inquisition body, initially called the Supreme Sacred Congregation. The dirty work was done by his lowers, but the power came from the kingdoms ruled by rulers crowned by the pope. Heretics who did not repent were burned alive. Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith - Wikipedia

Rome renewed its own Inquisition in 1542 when Pope Paul III created the Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Roman and Universal Inquisition to combat Protestant heresy.

Spanish Inquisition:
In the late 15th Century, King Ferdinand II and Queen Isabella of Spain believed corruption in the Spanish Catholic Church was caused by Jews who, to survive centuries of anti-Semitism, converted to Christianity.

Known as Conversos, they were viewed with suspicion by old powerful Christian families. Conversos were blamed for a plague and accused of poisoning peoples’ water and abducting Christian boys. Inquisition - Spanish, Roman & Torture | HISTORY

 

[2ndpillar]

I don't know where you get this idea. Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain certainly weren't Roman emperors. Joan of Arc was tried by an ecclesiastical court convened by a bishop, not the King of France.

The complaint for Joan of Arc came from the British, and a pro English church court sentenced her to death. She was considered a French hero and had a new court hearing after her death and the original verdict was nullified. The pope recently gave an apology for the burning of Joan of Arc, and the torture of Galileo. Trial of Joan of Arc - Wikipedia Apparently, the pope didn't apologies for the Conversos (converted Jews) that were killed and tortured. But I am sure you can come up with a good reason for their torture, death, and confiscation of their wealth.

The Trial of Joan of Arc was a 15th century legal proceeding against Joan of Arc, a French military leader under Charles VII during the Hundred Years' War. During the siege of Compiègne in 1430, she was captured by Burgundian forces and subsequently sold to their English allies. She was prosecuted by a pro-English church court at Rouen, Normandy in 1431.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The pope, until 1968 presided over the Inquisition body,

The Inquisition was presided over by the Grand Inquisitor (today called the Prefect, or head, of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith). NOT the Pope. The fact that the Pope is the the spiritual authority of the Catholic church doesn't mean that he presides over the Inquisition. He merely offers oversight and authorization of various Inquisitions. You cannot say that a Papal Bull is the same thing as being investigated by the Inquisition. It's JUST NOT. Can we move on now?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Saying that Constantine didn't have influence over the Council of Nicaea, when he was the one who convened it,

Yes

presided over it,

No.

The actual presiding figure within the council was Hosius of Cordoba, a prominent bishop who acted as the papal legate representing Pope Sylvester I.

Until such time as you can provide evidence that Constantine was ordained a bishop, and had a vote at the Council, you are up the creek without a paddle.