What does the bible really say

[Hermit Philosopher]

Im not a religious person but I find it interesting that in my opinion with so many different translations, versions, etc... do we even really know what the bible says or the meaning behind the passages?

John Doe says I think that it translates to mean this.
Jane Doe says no I think that it translates to mean this.

Where did the language get lost to where people have to resort to "I think this it what it means"?

If the language was lost overtime, who taught the translaters the language so they could say "we think it says/means this" .

Has the bible been translated correctly or is it still misunderstood?

Dear We Never Know

No language is, or has ever been, nor ever will be static. Language is fluid; not just culturally and geographically but also very much historically.

Imagine being someone just 200 years from now, finding some piece of information from today, talking about someone “swiping right”. What are the chances of you immediately understanding that it speaks of someone “liking” someone on Tinder and not of whatever connotations relate to “swiping” and “right” in 200 years time?

My guess is zero.


Humbly
Hermit

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

Im not a religious person but I find it interesting that in my opinion with so many different translations, versions, etc... do we even really know what the bible says or the meaning behind the passages?

John Doe says I think that it translates to mean this.
Jane Doe says no I think that it translates to mean this.

Where did the language get lost to where people have to resort to "I think this it what it means"?

If the language was lost overtime, who taught the translaters the language so they could say "we think it says/means this" .

Has the bible been translated correctly or is it still misunderstood?

The Bible is perfectly fine, as it is, in any translation, to provide its message.
The true message exists, but people choose to create their own “idea” what the message is. The true message will always exist, and people, being people, will always find a way to screw it up.
Oops.
All of sudden you have somewhere around 7 billion ideas, and yes, they may overlap here and there, so some people think they have a connection to others, but no two people have the same “idea”, as long as the think they’re right.
That’s why there are roughly 100 million (ish) versions of “Christianity”, and many versions of Islam and many versions of Judaism.

For those who can “see” the true message of the Bible, there is absolutely NO disagreement. You may think that’s odd, but it exists. That’s the way the scriptures work. It’s not possible to disagree when people see the “truth” of the message. The disagreement arises when people want their own “truth”.

For instance, the term “biblical marriage” is used a lot by Christians. But they really only have their “idea” of what that actually means. And, in modern day US Christianity, it’s so wrong, it’s not even close, more like 180 degree wrong. (Same for Judaism and Islam, btw). But they will stick with their “idea” and demand everyone to follow their “idea” or else.
That’s why there is so much conflict in the world regarding roles of men and women and marriage, etc.

 

[firedragon]

Im not a religious person but I find it interesting that in my opinion with so many different translations, versions, etc... do we even really know what the bible says or the meaning behind the passages?

John Doe says I think that it translates to mean this.
Jane Doe says no I think that it translates to mean this.

Where did the language get lost to where people have to resort to "I think this it what it means"?

If the language was lost overtime, who taught the translaters the language so they could say "we think it says/means this" .

Has the bible been translated correctly or is it still misunderstood?

Is there a very specific verse you can relate to in this translation matter? Interesting.

 

[halbhh]

Im not a religious person but I find it interesting that in my opinion with so many different translations, versions, etc... do we even really know what the bible says or the meaning behind the passages?

John Doe says I think that it translates to mean this.
Jane Doe says no I think that it translates to mean this.

Where did the language get lost to where people have to resort to "I think this it what it means"?

If the language was lost overtime, who taught the translaters the language so they could say "we think it says/means this" .

Has the bible been translated correctly or is it still misunderstood?

One of the big downsides to the division of the text into chapters and verses is that some began to quote individual isolated verses, out of context, and then often it's possible to imagine an isolated verse has a new meaning that context would rule out, so there is a proliferation of new ideas about new meanings once more people began to do that contextless type quoting.

On the one hand, there are many verses that stand alone perfectly well, and that helps create the idea that most verses would...

But there are very many verses that rely on the immediate context for their intended meaning (and also it's usually easy to get that meaning merely by reading through fully). Some verses though need the broader context of an entire book.

Modern translations like the well regarded accurate NIV are easy to read and understand if a person is simply reading through, from the begginning of a book through.

 

[viole]

Im not a religious person but I find it interesting that in my opinion with so many different translations, versions, etc... do we even really know what the bible says or the meaning behind the passages?

John Doe says I think that it translates to mean this.
Jane Doe says no I think that it translates to mean this.

Where did the language get lost to where people have to resort to "I think this it what it means"?

If the language was lost overtime, who taught the translaters the language so they could say "we think it says/means this" .

Has the bible been translated correctly or is it still misunderstood?

Considering that Christians claim to have a relationship with God. while still disagreeing among themselves about the most basic stuff, we can only deduce that those Christians are just deluding themselves.

Ciao

- viole

 

[We Never Know]

Who exactly does the translations?

Names? Faces of these people?

The one armed man

 

[We Never Know]

Is there a very specific verse you can relate to in this translation matter? Interesting.

It seems different religions/denominations
interpret parts differently.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Why assume there was only one right way of interpreting the texts? I have known many creative people over the years, including some writers, and I don't know one that strove for a single invariable result. In fact, in most instances it was just the opposite; they strove for breadth and depth of interpretation of their writing, not a singular unquestionable message. They knew that for their writing to be valuable to a lot of readers it needed to be able to touch them in whatever ways they could identify with.

This is an intrinsic part of Faith IMHO. There are traditions in Faiths that tell us that the Word of God has many meanings.

From the Baha'i Writings we have ample guidance and I share a couple to show what has been offerd.

"Know assuredly that just as thou firmly believest that the Word of God, exalted be His glory, endureth for ever, thou must, likewise, believe with undoubting faith that its meaning can never be exhausted."

Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 175

This is a though about just One word.

"... Bahá’u’lláh also gave in detail, in response to the questioner, several meanings pertaining to the word 'sun', adding that this word has so many other meanings that if ten secretaries were to record His explanations for a period of one or two years, He would still not exhaust its significance."

Adib Taherzadeh, The Revelation of Bahá’u’lláh v 1, p. 29-33

This is a great topic in itself, could be a great OP.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I don't think we have any way of knowing for certain the understanding that was intended by the original authors.
I suspect most find meaning according to their needs.
What people need from the Bible may have nothing to do with what the original author meant to say.

In the works of Baha'u'llah, Baha’u’llah offers that the Word of God does have more than one meaning.

"We speak one word, and by it we intend one and seventy meanings; each one of these meanings we can explain."

Bahá’u’lláh, The Ki tab-i-Ian, p. 255

A comment made on the Bible offers this.

"All the texts and teachings of the holy Testaments have intrinsic spiritual meanings. They are not to be taken literally. I, therefore, pray in your behalf that you may be given the power of understanding these inner real meanings of the Holy Scriptures and may become informed of the mysteries deposited in the words of the Bible so that you may attain eternal life and that your hearts may be attracted to the Kingdom of God."

‘Abdu’l-Bahá, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 459-460

There is much guidance on this now, it is actually a great topic as it gives new frames of references to older scriptures.

I can offer I look for those different meanings and it is why many see a Baha'i twists other scriptures, when in reality all we are doing is seeing a different vision of the same writings.

Regards Tony

 

[halbhh]

Considering that Christians claim to have a relationship with God. while still disagreeing among themselves about the most basic stuff, we can only deduce that those Christians are just deluding themselves.

Ciao

- viole

That's right. Or very close at least.

Christ said that only "few" -- which would seem to mean less than 1/2 at the least -- would choose the 'narrow' way/gate.

So, if He got it right (and I've learned by testing what I can that He tends to get everything right), then only "few" will choose to stay on the path of His words, "many" will instead go on a path away from heaven.

It's straightforward we often see that some Christians seem to be doing as He taught (I found by spending enough time with them working shoulder to shoulder), and others clearly are not. That's not in dispute anywhere.

 

[1213]

...
Has the bible been translated correctly or is it still misunderstood?

I think the correct translation or meaning can be seen from the context also. That is why I don't think it is a problem, if there is single words that could be little unclear.

 

[Wildswanderer]

God guided and preserves his Word. All the important doctrines have been kept through the generations.

 

[Quagmire]

Has the bible been translated correctly

Yes.

or is it still misunderstood?

Yes.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Why assume there was only one right way of interpreting the texts? I have known many creative people over the years, including some writers, and I don't know one that strove for a single invariable result. In fact, in most instances it was just the opposite; they strove for breadth and depth of interpretation of their writing, not a singular unquestionable message. They knew that for their writing to be valuable to a lot of readers it needed to be able to touch them in whatever ways they could identify with.

You’re describing fiction writers, of which the Bible isn’t.

 

[PureX]

You’re describing fiction writers, of which the Bible isn’t.

Of course it is. It's mythology (most of it), which is a combination of fact and fiction mixed together to convey an ideal. The point and the purpose of the text is to convey an ideal, not a factual history. The other parts are more akin to editorializing, which is also not intended to convey the facts, but rather the opinions of the writer (and whomever he represents).

 

[PureX]

This is an intrinsic part of Faith IMHO. There are traditions in Faiths that tell us that the Word of God has many meanings.

From the Baha'i Writings we have ample guidance and I share a couple to show what has been offerd.

"Know assuredly that just as thou firmly believest that the Word of God, exalted be His glory, endureth for ever, thou must, likewise, believe with undoubting faith that its meaning can never be exhausted."

Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 175

This is a though about just One word.

"... Bahá’u’lláh also gave in detail, in response to the questioner, several meanings pertaining to the word 'sun', adding that this word has so many other meanings that if ten secretaries were to record His explanations for a period of one or two years, He would still not exhaust its significance."

Adib Taherzadeh, The Revelation of Bahá’u’lláh v 1, p. 29-33

This is a great topic in itself, could be a great OP.

Regards Tony

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people, both theists and atheists, that are personally invested in the the idea that the text must have one and only one consistent meaning. For the theists, it's 'my meaning', and for the atheists, multiple meanings gives them (they think) an excuse to dismiss the text as confused gibberish. Neither are going to be willing to entertain the idea that the text intends to allow for multiple interpretations and meanings.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Of course it is. It's mythology (most of it), which is a combination of fact and fiction mixed together to convey an ideal. The point and the purpose of the text is to convey an ideal, not a factual history. The other parts are more akin to editorializing, which is also not intended to convey the facts, but rather the opinions of the writer (and whomever he represents).

I disagree. In my over-4-decades-long research of the Bible, I’ve found too much consensus between the ancient Jewish writing that make up the 39-book Hebrew canon.

You have to approach Biblical texts with a clean slate, if you will. You cannot begin such an endeavor, holding onto preconceived ideas.

I see where & how the disdain for the Bible originated…. No human enjoys being restrained from what you could term “enjoyable activities.”
But there is wisdom in those prohibitions; they are beneficial for society.

That’s why Jesus could truthfully state: “Love your neighbor as yourself… is what the Law and the Prophets mean.” — Matthew 22:39-40; cf. Romans 13:9

 

[PureX]

I disagree. In my over-4-decades-long research of the Bible, I’ve found too much consensus between the ancient Jewish writing that make up the 39-book Hebrew canon.

Sure. You found what you were looking for. That's kind of how mythical writing and editorializing is intended to work.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Sure. You found what you were looking for. That's kind of how mythical writing and editorializing is intended to work.

No, you’re wrong….some explanations were actually disappointing. But it fitted the context.

 

[PureX]

No, you’re wrong….some explanations were actually disappointing. But it fitted the context.

Fitted your context. It's a natural human bias. We all do it. We see what we're looking for because we fit what we see into the 'context' of what we expect things to be.