What evidence is there that christians are all mass deluded?

[Humanistheart]

It’s the only workable definition .

For the purposes of religous study mormonism is not included as a christian denomination.

It's interesting you'd bring up muslims. You'll note that like christians, they believe jesus is key to salvation. This is shared by Mormons. If this was all that was needed to qualify as christian we'd have to lump muslims in with christians, but we don't.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I suggest that the one thing that unites them all.... which is the one thing they are all, collectively, deluded about... is the one thing that is built right into their name.... Christianity.

Even Christian atheists have Jesus at their core:

Christian atheists...????????????????????????


This is the first time I've heard such a thin....I've heard of (Agnostic Atheist),,,but "Christian atheists"........never heard of such a confused person....

 

[Katzpur]

I'm not sure "deluded" is the right choice of words here, deluded----impose a misleading belief upon someone. Do you think the Christian belief is misleading? I know the point you are trying to make, but maybe a better choice of words would get to your point.

I think deluded is a perfect word. Christians believe that God will forgive them of their sins because His Son paid the debt they incurred. They also believe that we will all be resurrected from the dead some day. Now if we're right, our beliefs are not misleading but accurate. If we're wrong, we're all deluded and are attempting to delude the rest of the world.

 

[Katzpur]

For the purposes of religous study mormonism is not included as a christian denomination.

For the purposes of this forum, it is.

 

[Katzpur]

Mormons aren't christians, why would they be included?

This is a pretty entertaining comment, coming from a former Mormon is who now an atheist. Tell me, when you were a Mormon, did you believe in Jesus Christ? Did you believe He was the Only Begotten Son of God? Did you believe He suffered and died to pay the price for your sins? Did you believe that through His Atonement, you would someday be resurrected to live again in God's presence? It doesn't really matter that you don't see Mormons as Christians now. What matters is that when you were a Mormon yourself, if you didn't believe these things, then you didn't understand the core beliefs of the religion you left.

 

[Poisonshady313]

For the purposes of religous study mormonism is not included as a christian denomination.

It's interesting you'd bring up muslims. You'll note that like christians, they believe jesus is key to salvation. This is shared by Mormons. If this was all that was needed to qualify as christian we'd have to lump muslims in with christians, but we don't.

Muslims do not believe Jesus is the key to salvation. They consider him a prophet.

My definition of a Christian is someone who believes Jesus was anything more impressive than a prophet.

This excludes Muslims... includes Mormons.

 

[Humanistheart]

This is a pretty entertaining comment, coming from a former Mormon is who now an atheist. Tell me, when you were a Mormon, did you believe in Jesus Christ? Did you believe He was the Only Begotten Son of God? Did you believe He suffered and died to pay the price for your sins? Did you believe that through His Atonement, you would someday be resurrected to live again in God's presence? It doesn't really matter that you don't see Mormons as Christians now. What matters is that when you were a Mormon yourself, if you didn't believe these things, then you didn't understand the core beliefs of the religion you left.

No I never believed in jesus. And I undestand them better than you do.

 

[Humanistheart]

Muslims do not believe Jesus is the key to salvation. They consider him a prophet.

My definition of a Christian is someone who believes Jesus was anything more impressive than a prophet.

This excludes Muslims... includes Mormons.

Wrong, it would include muslims, exept those ignorant to their beliefs.

 

[Humanistheart]

For the purposes of this forum, it is.

Oh well, if a free site on the internet thinks it is it must be true. Lol.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Wrong, it would include muslims, exept those ignorant to their beliefs.

Please... enlighten me. I'd like to see something in a muslim text that shows that Jesus is "key to salvation".

Muslims don't believe in original sin... so they don't believe in the need for Jesus to die to atone for anyone's sins.

What indication is there in any text that Jesus was anything more than a prophet?

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

For the purposes of religous study mormonism is not included as a christian denomination.

It's interesting you'd bring up muslims. You'll note that like christians, they believe jesus is key to salvation. This is shared by Mormons. If this was all that was needed to qualify as christian we'd have to lump muslims in with christians, but we don't.

Muslims find salvation by submision to God not by Christ. Both Christians and Muslims do not see Muslims as Christians.

This is how the Religious Tolerance website defines christians.

"On this site, we use the same definition as is used by public opinion pollsters and government census bureaus. We define as Christian any person or group who sincerely, devoutly, seriously believe that they are Christian."

The Christian religion: introduction

This also how I define who is a Christian.

I hate it when someone tells me what I believe as a Hindu. I have no desire to tell Mormons that they are not Christians. It is just to rude even for me.

 

[Mister Emu]

Either that Jesus is a sort of ideal to emulate, or that he existed at all. Pick whichever one you like better.

The first is subjective...

The second, you would have to have strong evidence that Jesus did not exist...

If we're wrong, we're all deluded and are attempting to delude the rest of the world.

Merely being incorrect is not enough for delusion... People, for instance, who believed that flies spawned from rotted meat were not delusional, there conclusions were merely unsound, they were based on observations and seemed reasonable at the time, only once we had the ability to better observe, and see the fly eggs, would it be delusional to believe that...

 

[OmarKhayyam]

The classic definition is: a Christian is one who subscribes without reservation or exception to the Nicene Creed.

I think that is still a good standard. And yes those who believe being dead ain't really being dead are deluded.

 

[Tiapan]

I know more people diagnosed with severe mental illness that appear far more sane than most islamists and fundamentalist christians, I have met.

Examples of Delusion
Heaven/Paradise
Hell
Afterlife
Resurrection
to name a few.

Cheers

 

[Yerda]

Christian atheists...????????????????????????


This is the first time I've heard such a thing....I've heard of (Agnostic Atheist),,,but "Christian atheists"........never heard of such a confused person....

Christian atheists appear to be highly uncommon. I've read a couple of interviews and an article or two and I wouldn't describe what I've read to be the product of confusion. The rejection of silly ideas and traditions in favour of embracing modern culture while preserving a message they find important (infact some of them believe that Christ's message is only redeemable if God is rejected and the orthodoxy cast aside - a tempting argument) seems reasonable and responsible to me.

 

[Katzpur]

No I never believed in jesus.

You were LDS, and you never believed in Jesus? I guess you just joined the Church so you could pay tithing, stop drinking coffee and attend church for three hours every Sunday.

And I undestand them better than you do.

Judging from your posts, there's not a lot to indicate you do.

 

[Katzpur]

Oh well, if a free site on the internet thinks it is it must be true. Lol.

I love how easily amused you are by your own responses. So who exactly do you think has the right to tell me my religion isn't Christian?

 

[Katzpur]

The classic definition is: a Christian is one who subscribes without reservation or exception to the Nicene Creed.

I think that is still a good standard.

And where does that leave the Christians who lived prior to 325 A.D.? What would you call them?

 

[Katzpur]

This is how the Religious Tolerance website defines christians.

"On this site, we use the same definition as is used by public opinion pollsters and government census bureaus. We define as Christian any person or group who sincerely, devoutly, seriously believe that they are Christian."

And I love this statement from the same site: "Estimates of the percentage of American adults who are Christian varies from about 80% to less than 1% depending upon which faith group's definition that one uses."

I hate it when someone tells me what I believe as a Hindu.

Yes, it's annoying, isn't it? It's also annoying when someone who is not a Hindu tells you he knows more about Hindu beliefs than you do.

I have no desire to tell Mormons that they are not Christians. It is just to rude even for me.

That sounds like something a true Christian would say! Oh, wait! That sounds like something a true Hindu would say! :yes: Thank you.

 

[Humanistheart]

Please... enlighten me. I'd like to see something in a muslim text that shows that Jesus is "key to salvation".

Muslims don't believe in original sin... so they don't believe in the need for Jesus to die to atone for anyone's sins.

What indication is there in any text that Jesus was anything more than a prophet?

I'd suggest you make a post in the islam section if you wish to have this explained. Jesus is 'just' a prophet yes, but a great prophet who played a larger part in islam than many realize.

You think only original sin needs forgivenss? So, for you, the sins that people actually commit don't then? Interesting.