What Explains U.S. Mass Shootings?

[Terrywoodenpic]

It serves the greater good to take a beating without violent resistance, eh?

You & I have very different values.
To not only blame the potential victim, but to prosecute'm resisting becoming one?
I don't believe in the bend-over-&-spread'm approach to being attacked.
Violent resistance to assault is more than merely justifiable.
It's a moral choice, be it chemical, firearm, blunt instrument, or edged weapon.

A warning shot might work on occasion.
One reason I carry chamber empty is that racking the slide is a
warning which could discourage an attacker from proceeding.
I prefer paths of least effort & danger.

If eschewing violence in self defense works for you
I've no objection to your choosing it. But I find it
immoral to impose it upon others.

The official and police advice if confronted with violence is to avoid all contact.
The relative mortality and injury figures support this.

 

[oldbadger]

Reloads are trustworthy.

Nope. Nowhere near as trustworthy as commercially manufactured rounds and cartridges. That's something that I've known about for a long long time.

Hollow points are legal.

Which rips your point to pieces.
Hollow points only have one purpose, which of course the Geneva Convention knew knew well, when they were banned for warfare.
This is all gobbledegook......

 

[oldbadger]

Your saying "needing to gun-up" is mischievous.

Wrong. It's pathetic.

We've been doing this awhile, & I've yet to be able to convey the idea that I live in a relatively safe area, & feel no compelling "need" to be armed. It's simply a worthwhile choice to address something quite unlikely.

In which case further restrictions wouldn't be too much of an inconvenienc

I strongly recommend against basing your view of a country's society upon TV shows.
Otherwise, one might think your national sport is throwing acid at each other's faces.

I particularly enjoy the US cop shows where idiot householders call the police and then, in their hysteria, they shoot through their front doors when the police call. Seems real enough to us, thankyou.
Yes, we've had a few acid attacks here in recent months, the victims numbering less than those that die in the US from gun-attacks in a couple of hours.

I cannot argue with your impressions.
You'll just have to endure them.
But if things here were really as bad as you think,
Horace Rumpole wouldn't have retired in Florida.

He needed some sunshine. But he never needed a gun.

Some delicious irony....
You & yours so vigorously oppose gun ownership by people in a distant country, separated by thousands of miles of ocean.

Oh please..... we don't mind. We just think it's primitive, that's all.

It's odd that the strength of your fear impedes an accurate understanding of our law, politics, & society.

Oh don't worry about us. Your own are getting fed up with your laws.

But I remind you that guns came in handy back in the day, when your ilk crossed that ocean, & we had to twice kick your colonial arschen out.

.......... we ? When 'we'...... ?
Methinks they might have been a bit tougher than you.
And they did it with muzzle-loader rifle, musket and bayonet. And both sides fought bravely.

But then you spoiled it all, destroying the native peoples over time, and also turning upon each other, just as we had done before, here.

So how does that help your case?

 

[esmith]

"To your other point.....I am not willing to forgo ownership or possible ownership of any current legal firearms."

So you don't care how many deaths, as long as you can have your fun.

I see you have an issue and have zero understanding of the issue. So, just to satisfy your problem.....I don't give a rat's ***.

 

[esmith]

Nope. Nowhere near as trustworthy as commercially manufactured rounds and cartridges. That's something that I've known about for a long long time.

Well now the above statement confirms my suspicion about your lack of knowledge in this area.

 

[oldbadger]

Well now the above statement confirms my suspicion about your lack of knowledge in this area.

You may be far advanced in your knowledge about reloads, but I'll stick to my beliefs on that.

This issue about hollow points being legal makes a total legal mess of the tenet that reloading is legally fraut.

Hollow points have one primary purpose, and to worry about any legal defence after a defensive gun-action with reloads is just strange.

If you are highly specialised in reloads then fine, but even the single discipline of resizing is highly fraut for many gunners. Nope..... I don't trust reloads like manufactured rounds and cartridges.

 

[Revoltingest]

You were making too much money from us to want to join the fight on our behalf.
You only joined in when Germany started sinkiing your own ships.
Which was a big mistake by Hitler.

It certainly speeded up his defeat.

But don't think for a minute that you did it for us or anyone else

Limeys....the ingrates of the world.
I think even the Japanese have a more positive attitude towards us regarding the war.

 

[Revoltingest]

The official and police advice if confronted with violence is to avoid all contact.
The relative mortality and injury figures support this.

Well, spluh!
My favorite martial art is running away.
And I use avoidance to avoid even that.

 

[Revoltingest]

Nope. Nowhere near as trustworthy as commercially manufactured rounds and cartridges. That's something that I've known about for a long long time.

Something you "know", eh.
Knowledgeable reloaders I know have no problem.
But if you're a bozo, then you're on the right track.

Which rips your point to pieces.

In what way?

Hollow points only have one purpose, which of course the Geneva Convention knew knew well, when they were banned for warfare.
This is all gobbledegook......

You're really intent on not understanding, aren't you?
And you misuse "gobbledegook".
Ref....
the definition of gobbledegook

Hollow points are designed to expand upon hitting the target because....
- This increases the stopping power.
- It lessens the likelihood of pass thru & downrange danger.
(I prefer frangible bullets to achieve both goals.)

You cite the Geneva convention as though this makes an argument about something.
But this agreement is about politics, not efficacy or humanity....things foreign to politicians.

 

[Revoltingest]

Wrong. It's pathetic.

No, you're not as bad as that.
Just a bit disingenuous.

In which case further restrictions wouldn't be too much of an inconvenienc

You misspelled "inconvenience".

I particularly enjoy the US cop shows where idiot householders call the police and then, in their hysteria, they shoot through their front doors when the police call. Seems real enough to us, thankyou.
Yes, we've had a few acid attacks here in recent months, the victims numbering less than those that die in the US from gun-attacks in a couple of hours.

A weltanschauung gleaned from watching The Shield & Reno 911....oh, dear.

.......... we ? When 'we'...... ?
Methinks they might have been a bit tougher than you.
And they did it with muzzle-loader rifle, musket and bayonet. And both sides fought bravely.

We were tougher.
You lost.
We won.

Did I mention that you lost?
And that we won?

But then you spoiled it all, destroying the native peoples over time, and also turning upon each other, just as we had done before, here.

The natives did indeed get a raw deal.
The colonists learned that trick from you Brits.

So how does that help your case?

It's irrelevant to it.

 

[oldbadger]

Something you "know", eh.
Knowledgeable reloaders I know have no problem.
But if you're a bozo, then you're on the right track.

Knowledgeable, eh?
You mean that some folks could explain to a court how reasonable a hollow point bullet is but couldn't defend an encapsulated reload?
You're having a laugh.

You're really intent on not understanding, aren't you?
And you misuse "gobbledegook".
Ref....
the definition of gobbledegook

Nah, I liked it because my definition begins with 'pretentious'.

Hollow points are designed to expand upon hitting the target because....
- This increases the stopping power.
- It lessens the likelihood of pass thru & downrange danger.
(I prefer frangible bullets to achieve both goals.)

Bull...... they were desgned to fragment inside a target.
Dreadful. And it says everything about US gun law.
Why do you think they are banned for military use? And to think.... that you can load these up in a fast firing handgun and go shopping.

 

[oldbadger]

The Shield & Reno 911...................

Well?
Were they any good?
Which was best?
I wonder if they were produced for region 2.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

I see you have an issue and have zero understanding of the issue. So, just to satisfy your problem.....I don't give a rat's ***.

At least I don't think semi-automatic weapons are toys.

 

[esmith]

Knowledgeable, eh?
You mean that some folks could explain to a court how reasonable a hollow point bullet is but couldn't defend an encapsulated reload?

The same way law enforcement departments issue a form of a hollow point bullet, but officers are not allowed to purchase of the shelf ammunition or reload their own for on duty carry.
And just to enforcer my statement about hollow point type ammunition and the police
https://www.quora.com/Are-the-police-allowed-to-use-hollowpoints
http://www.wideopenspaces.com/the-best-5-self-defense-ammo-for-9mm-used-by-law-enforcement/

.

Dreadful. And it says everything about US gun law.
Why do you think they are banned for military use? And to think.... that you can load these up in a fast firing handgun and go shopping.

Guess we now know that you do not research anything to do with firearms and just write anything you want.
https://www.thetrace.org/2015/07/hollow-point-ammunition-us-army/
https://www.quora.com/Why-can’t-the...nd-civilians-use-them-but-the-military-cannot
Army to consider hollow point bullets for new pistol

So, how about doing a little research before you make false statements.

 

[esmith]

At least I don't think semi-automatic weapons are toys.

You have a very truthful description of yourself below your name.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

You have a very truthful description of yourself below your name.

Whatever you need to sleep at night.

 

[oldbadger]

The same way law enforcement departments issue a form of a hollow point bullet, but officers are not allowed to purchase of the shelf ammunition or reload their own for on duty carry.
And just to enforcer my statement about hollow point type ammunition and the police.

Guess we now know that you do not research anything to do with firearms and just write anything you want.

So, how about doing a little research before you make false statements.

Hello! Are you sitting comfortaby?

The Common Sense of Gun Control

I love it! You just didn't know, did you?
The idea that police could 'home load' or choose their own 'on duty' bullets is so laughable that I wondered why you mentioned it.
Your Law enforcement depts are not required to comply with International Warfare rules. But such equipment as expanding, breaking bullets might possibly be addressed by US citizens one day, especially after any particular unjustified shooting, maybe?
When the Geneva Convention banned the use of expanding, breaking, unencapsulated bullets not every country was signing up to its rules. The US may not have, and the quote below suggests that this is the case!

But where such rules are made by international bodies the message is clear as day. Hollow Points are dum-dums of a sort and totally unnacceptable for humanitarian countries to use.
Anyway, the fact that you dare not home load bullets for self defence 'for legal reasons', yet claiming that you're so good at this that they are better, more reliable bullets, yet you are prepared to load with hollow-point bullets for defence......... gives us folks in other countries an insight as to how daft this situation is in the USA.
Don't you worry about us ignorant foreigners....... your own are waking up to 'The Common Sense of Gun Control'.
https://www.quora.com/Are-the-police-allowed-to-use-hollowpoints
1. It was actually the Hague convention of 1899 that 'banned' hollowpoints, far predating the UN.
2. The Hague convention applies only to armed conflict between states, (and, iirc, signatory states or states that comply with the convention) not police activity.
3. The US never signed off on the provision of that convention that banned such ammo, but it did comply with it for a long time.

Anytime you want a lesson in this stuff, just give us a call.

 

[Revoltingest]

Knowledgeable, eh?
You mean that some folks could explain to a court how reasonable a hollow point bullet is but couldn't defend an encapsulated reload?

There is a difference between these 2 situations....
1) That which is practical & ethical in the real world.
2) The fantasy world portrayed by a prosecutorial goon to a jury of half wits.

You're having a laugh.

Aping Ricky Gervais, eh?

Nah, I liked it because my definition begins with 'pretentious'.

I get the sense that attempts at discussion are failing.
It's like arguing with a billboard...again.

 

[Revoltingest]

The same way law enforcement departments issue a form of a hollow point bullet, but officers are not allowed to purchase of the shelf ammunition or reload their own for on duty carry.
And just to enforcer my statement about hollow point type ammunition and the police
https://www.quora.com/Are-the-police-allowed-to-use-hollowpoints
http://www.wideopenspaces.com/the-best-5-self-defense-ammo-for-9mm-used-by-law-enforcement/

.

Guess we now know that you do not research anything to do with firearms and just write anything you want.
https://www.thetrace.org/2015/07/hollow-point-ammunition-us-army/
https://www.quora.com/Why-can’t-the-military-use-hollow-point-Why-can-police-and-civilians-use-them-but-the-military-cannot
Army to consider hollow point bullets for new pistol

So, how about doing a little research before you make false statements.

Frustrating, ain't it.
One tries to discuss things gun related, but the most vocal
members of the anti-crowd just refuse to understand or learn.
At least this groundskeeper read your links.

 

[esmith]

Go find a nice soft place to sit before continuing.

Hello! Are you sitting comfortaby?

The Common Sense of Gun Control

I love it! You just didn't know, did you?
The idea that police could 'home load' or choose their own 'on duty' bullets is so laughable that I wondered why you mentioned it.
Your Law enforcement depts are not required to comply with International Warfare rules. But such equipment as expanding, breaking bullets might possibly be addressed by US citizens one day, especially after any particular unjustified shooting, maybe?
When the Geneva Convention banned the use of expanding, breaking, unencapsulated bullets not every country was signing up to its rules. The US may not have, and the quote below suggests that this is the case!

Well some times we have to educate our English cousins about real life as it pertains to us on the other side of the pond. However, I'm sure that there are those on this forum and out there in the world that would think that the police could purchase off-the-shelf ammunition or reload their own. I figured that you might be one, hence the explanation.. But, the police do use the same type of ammunition that is available to civilians.

But where such rules are made by international bodies the message is clear as day. Hollow Points are dum-dums of a sort and totally unnacceptable for humanitarian countries to use.

Who ever said war was a humanitarian evolution. Do you know why the U.S. switched from the .38 caliber ammuntion to the 45acp? It sure wasn't because they wanted to be humanitarians.

Anyway, the fact that you dare not home load bullets for self defence 'for legal reasons', yet claiming that you're so good at this that they are better, more reliable bullets, yet you are prepared to load with hollow-point bullets for defence......... gives us folks in other countries an insight as to how daft this situation is in the USA.
Don't you worry about us ignorant foreigners....... your own are waking up to 'The Common Sense of Gun Control'.
https://www.quora.com/Are-the-police-allowed-to-use-hollowpoints

The reason that one should not use "reload" for self-defense is not a ballistic factor but the having to deal with the lawyer factor. Oh just one little point that disputes a statement you made in responding to @Revoltingest in regards to why use expandable bullets....hollow points.
From your above link

Their biggest advantage, as Al Saibini mentioned, is that they generally stop at the first thing they hit. They don't go through the bad guy and into mom, who's standing behind him.

1. It was actually the Hague convention of 1899 that 'banned' hollowpoints, far predating the UN.
2. The Hague convention applies only to armed conflict between states, (and, iirc, signatory states or states that comply with the convention) not police activity.
3. The US never signed off on the provision of that convention that banned such ammo, but it did comply with it for a long time.

Anytime you want a lesson in this stuff, just give us a call.

What is your point in the above.
Do you really think that the US military does not use "expandable" rounds.
Sorry don't need any lessons from our English cousins when it comes to firearms.
But I must admit that you do build fine firearms, for example James Purdy & Sons.