What Failure Do You Think the Bible's God Has had?

[Nakosis]

Regardless whether God exists or not and whether biblical story real or not, by looking at the story in bible, what failure do you think God has had?

Being both omnipotent and ineffectual. Hard to rationalize both extremes.

 

[Araceli Cianna]

I think compared to other deities across the world, the Christian god has a similar amount of flaws. So that's my measuring stick. He is average, with his good and bad points like any pagan deity.

 

[suncowiam]

Presuming we're speaking of the one-god of the Abrahamic traditions, I feel that this deity's biggest failure is one of appeal. Supposedly, the idea is for every human on the planet to adore and worship this one-god. Except the manner in which this one-god is conceived and sung about fails at appealing to everyone. Very early on in life, as I was learning about a Catholic take on the one-god in particular, I just found it boring. It wasn't inspiring, it wasn't interesting. It still isn't. If it's the expectation of this deity to have everyone worship it, it's got a long way to go before it appeals to every human on the planet. Hinduism did a better job of creating a framework for universal appeal than the Abrahamics did.

Hearing religion from an appeal angle makes it seem like some product being marketed to the masses.

Well, we finally agree on some things.

 

[savagewind]

Oh goodie: yet another juvenile bible-bashing thread trolling for endorsement.

Oh goodie! Another juvenile post trolling for endorsement.

 

[suncowiam]

I thought God was perfect by definition?

 

[savagewind]

I thought God was perfect by definition?

Me too. May perfect bless you. You too @Jayhawker Soule. Like, I'm a troll?

 

[Baroodi]

dont blame God for something he hadnt done. All these bibles were man written. none is original or pristine. All false and fabricated. Christianity nowadays is 100% mutated. Original Christianity is preserves within Islam

 

[osgart]

• LONG LIST OF FAILURES:
• The demand for blind acceptance.
• Ultimatums galore based on insufficient evidence, and a total lack of communication.
• Totally Cruel, inconsistent rules, actions, commands, and language.
• Omnipotence without effect.
• Utter silence for 2017 years.
• Mixing the sheep with the wolves, and goats.
• Comic book stories are supposed to pass for history. Nothing like those stories happens today.
• Masochism as a form of fulfilling justice.
• Allowing sin to go free. Allowing evil to have its way.
• Reveals Himself directly in ancient days, and is nowhere to be found in the modern world, and today.
• On and on.

 

[savagewind]

Good Lord!

 

[savagewind]

The Earth God has given to humankind. I think that is a fact.
Is there any more to say?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If you read it all, study it and understand the message you would discover that “babies dashed against rocks” was the exact opposite of what God was seeking.

But yet it appears in his book, a book that many will defend as having been inspired by Holy Ghost, and even that the Holy Ghost wrote those words through the men who did write them. It represents god's word.
And we have also learned that there is no way all languages developed from the same place/time of origin, there was no global flood, and that the blood of any species can easily transmit disease thus rendering its use in a ritual when someone has been healed of leprosy rather very ironic. And then of course we have Job, Jesus cursing an out of season tree, and bear maulings. We also know it is better for child rearing to actually go ahead and do spare the rod, and of course it would be a crime to kill your rebellious teenaged child.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

But yet it appears in his book, a book that many will defend as having been inspired by Holy Ghost, and even that the Holy Ghost wrote those words through the men who did write them. It represents god's word.
And we have also learned that there is no way all languages developed from the same place/time of origin, there was no global flood, and that the blood of any species can easily transmit disease thus rendering its use in a ritual when someone has been healed of leprosy rather very ironic. And then of course we have Job, Jesus cursing an out of season tree, and bear maulings. We also know it is better for child rearing to actually go ahead and do spare the rod, and of course it would be a crime to kill your rebellious teenaged child.

Actually the Bible is not God’s word, IMO, but that’s another debate, I’m sure.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Maybe write a new Bible that doesn't make it so darn easy to have a bash at?

One would think so.

Given its narratives and subject matter that can be compared with an endorsement of genocide, human slavery, dehumanizing of women as a type of property, or bargaining chips just to name a few things. It would come to reason that book deserves the kind of response that people make about it.

It's not the kind of book that's very pleasant for which people hold in high esteem and dear to their hearts.

It's a bizarre contradiction and irony to even see that kind of approval for what the Bible contains in its narratives. Even if the violence and degradation has stopped,. People just don't condemn it like some condemn other books for what it's written within its pages.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Actually the Bible is not God’s word, IMO, but that’s another debate, I’m sure.

We agree on that much.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Actually the Bible is not God’s word, IMO, but that’s another debate, I’m sure.

We agree on that much.

The Bible does not even make that claim for itself. One has to take verses out of context and have a limited understanding of how it was written and assembled to try to say that.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

The Bible does not even make that claim for itself. One has to take verses out of context and have a limited understanding of how it was written and assembled to try to say that.

So very true.
There is a lot of wisdom there, but people like to use it as means of controlling or judging others. By doing exactly what you said.

 

[Skwim]

No failures. Lets say God destroys everything on the Earth. If that's the way he wants it and that's the way he gets it, it's no failure at all.

Genesis 6
1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth and daughters were born unto them,

2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were fair; and they took for themselves wives of all whom they chose.

3 And the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not always strive with man, for he also is flesh; yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years.”

4 There were giants on the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagining of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And the Lord repented that He had made man on the earth, and it grieved Him in His heart.​

So what do you think god repents and grieves, his successes or his failures?

.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I am wondering why some people don't seem to understand that such things have zero use, particularly coming from anonymous people.

I find these discussions very useful.

RF is here so religious people can get to know each other.

It appears to be here so that non-religious people can get to know one another as well, and for the two groups to debate and discuss their various opinions.

After "Religious Debates," it says, "Debates about the world's religions and their ideologies or practices"

I'm still fairly new here, but it is my understanding that DIRs provide the safe space for those not willing to discuss religious matters with those outside of their faith.

The cultural 'War' is supposed to stop at RF door. RF is here so religious people can get to know each other. Some people seem to think we're here as a platform to do battle against religion or for religion, and we aren't. No positive progress is made through combat.

This is neither war nor combat. Those words are used metaphorically. This is debate and discussion. Why walk in through the RF door if that's off the table?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

It does appear like bible bashing when you offer up stories such as these to make the Bible seem evil, when you don’t understand the messages

We think that we do understand the messages, but others are free to explain why they think that the words don't mean what they say.

I will say that the babies dashed against the rocks is part of a big picture. If you read it all, study it and understand the message you would discover that “babies dashed against rocks” was the exact opposite of what God was seeking. It was the sinful character of man, in disobedience to God’s command that was coming through.

You just tried to explain why "Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones" doesn't mean what it appears to mean, but your answer did nothing to dispel my opinion about what those words mean or how I feel about them.

If you did some research on the verses and topics you mentioned, what you find may surprise.

So in order to understand the Bible, one needs to do research? Maybe they shouldn't be handing them out to random people. People will just read that killing babies makes one happy.

God’s character can be found in the Bible

Yes. Also his other qualities. Isn't this what this thread is about?

*****

Let me add this: For me, this is not about Christians, but about the effect that Christianity has on Christians, and how that affects the lives of them and others. Both you and Brickjectivity are Christians (I believe that that is correct) that I mostly agree with and find have excellent characters and dispositions insofar as one can judge such a thing through the lens of RF.

You're the kind of people that are likely drawn to the gentle god of the New Testament. People like you absorb the positive teachings, and more or less reject the ones that a different kind of believer is drawn to, the one that prefers the angry, vengeful, judgmental god of the Old Testament.- the kind that tell the rest of us what is right and wrong, how we should live, what the prevailing societal values should be, and would impose those values on the rest of us using the might of government.

That person reads the same words that you do, but sees a very different message, one that many of us find destructive and unjust when it becomes the prevailing opinion or a socio-political force to be reckoned with. We are presently witnessing the damage that Christianity is doing in America. You probably know that 81% of white evangelical Christians found Trump acceptable, and according to recent polling, a similar number find Moore acceptable. The rest of us look on in shock and horror.

Then the creationists come parading through with their attacks on science and scientists, which is pretty irrelevant to unbelievers - they can go ahead and remain ignorant of science and shield their children from public schools and disesteem universities at no cost to me. In fact, both od my children work in the sciences, and such attitudes only make it easier for them - less competition. The harm is that it predisposes such people to be deceived by the climate deniers.

Then you have the atheophobes with their lies about atheism and its predisposition to lead to brutal, authoritarian, murderous regimes.

Then there are the homophobes, fighting tooth and nail to shame homosexuals and prevent them from enjoying the dignity and legal protections afforded others.

Many of us want this kind of thing gone from the world. This is what the "war" is about. This is what leads to what is being called Bible bashing. Sorry that it is so unpleasant to you. And I realize that these other people make it harder and more unpleasant to be a Christian. They also make it harder and more unpleasant to be a non-Christian.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I thought God was perfect by definition?

Yes, the God of the Christian Bible is said to be perfect:

[1] "As for Jehovah, his way is perfect - 2 Samuel 22:31

[2] "As for God, his way is perfect: The LORD's word is flawless; he shields all who take refuge in him." Psalm 18:30

[3] "His work is perfect, for all his ways are just. A trustworthy God who does no wrong, he is righteous and straight." - Deuteronomy 32:4

[4] "Be therefore perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect" - Matt 5:48​

Yet at the same time, He is imperfect. He makes mistakes and regrets them:

[5] "And the LORD was sorry that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart." - Genesis 6:6​

Add in all of the imperfections already named on this thread, and you have the imperfect perfect god, the married bachelor of the Christian Bible. This is how we know that this book is not authored solely by an omniscient god, but either entirely by or with the help of a collection of ancient people who contradicted one another and possibly the deity

To the Christians:

Let's say that a god exists, the one you call "God," and He helped to write that book. We have to guess why such a god would let unsophisticated men contaminate His word, or leave us to guess which words He wrote and which words simple ancients wrote.

Let's suppose that a deity wrote some of the words. Who wrote that the god was perfect? The four scriptures above refer to God in the third person. Who wrote that the Lord was sorry and grieved? It's also in the third person. Did God write either? If so, which one? Which one is correct? Why believe either even if one is correct? On what basis? What can you say that you know about such a god? And why should a person base their lives on such a book?