What Happens When You Die?

[godnotgod]

I believed I have lived and died before. I have memories of an existence prior to this one.

The memories seem as real as any other, but who knows? However they affect my view of how things work.

From my presumed experience, death doesn't provide any answers. No rising of the physical body to live with God in heaven. No pearly gates, just perhaps another existence not much different from the current one.

I've been told I will come to know better these experiences of other lives because of some enlighten threshold I've past. People who seem to have more certainty of past life experiences.

Personally I liked existence, I've no knowledge of non-existence. So hard for me to relate to something I have no knowledge of.

So I accept after-lives and pre-lives because they fit with my apparent experiences. Without that I don't think I'd have any rational reason to accept an afterlife based on religious belief.

I look for religious idealism that supports my apparent experience. I'm more likely to accept eastern belief then western but because of my western upbringing I tend to try and merge the two into a compatible mixture.

When you are no longer seeing 'Eastern' or 'Western', you should have it.

Regarding your past lives and current existence, I would like to share something I found very revealing when I first read it. 'Past lives' and 'existence' are, you might say, the foreground of life. We mostly focus on this foreground, but tend to ignore the background, but the foreground cannot exist without the background. Both together create the entire picture of our 'existence'. When this occurs, 'existence' becomes transformed into 'being'. Then, life and death are no longer an issue, because the view from the background is one that is Unborn, Unconditoned, not subject to Birth or Death. It is, as Alan Watts puts it, 'the Indestructible Sunyata'.

This is an excerpt from the book: 'Zen Mind; Beginners Mind', by Zen Roshi Shunryu Suzuki:

"To live in the realm of Buddha nature means to die as a small
being, moment after moment. When we lose our balance
we die, but at the same time we also develop ourselves, we
grow. Whatever we see is changing, losing its balance. The
reason everything looks beautiful is because it is out of bal-
ance, but its background is always in perfect harmony. This
is how everything exists in the realm of Buddha nature,
losing its balance against a background of perfect balance.
So if you see things without realizing the background of
Buddha nature, everything appears to be in the form of suf-
fering. But if you understand the background of existence,
you realize that suffering itself is how we live, and how we
extend our life. So in Zen sometimes we emphasize the
imbalance or disorder of life."

So Zen always asks the question: 'Who is it that exists? Who is it that lives; that dies? It is a means of forcing you to awaken and to look at yourself from the point of view of the background rather than just the foreground, and that awareness transforms your current view of who and what you are.

If you would like the Suzuki's entire book for free, you can download it here in .pdf format. It is considered a classic Zen text:

http://www.arvindguptatoys.com/arvindgupta/zenmind.pdf

 

[Thief]

If you stop circling, you'll arrive.

I believe in a linear existence.
I'm not the fork tongued devil of circular reason you say I am.

 

[godnotgod]

For now, I am only responding to a part of your entire post. Rest will follow:

You said: [In the East, the life-force is not in the blood, but in the breath. Breath is consciousness itself, and so, blood sacrifice, along with its companion, the washing of oneself in the 'blood of Jesus', is seen as a disgusting act.]

Many in the East follow pagan religions and are deceived according to Scripture. If they repent and turn to belief in the true Jesus Christ and His death, burial and resurrection, they will be cleansed by His blood. If they continue to reject His blood sacrifice as payment for their sin, they will remain in their sin and tragically, on their way to Hell.

1> How does blood cleanse anything?

2> How does blood sacrifice pay for sin?

 

[askersha]

The supreme question is long:

Q: Is there really any such thing as matter? I mean, even atom is not the smallest conceivable particle of objects we come across. Isn't it all energy? Energy that takes shapes? Transformable energy is what I call it. And whether it is matter or energy, it is conserved. It cannot be created or destroyed. So why do we even think that a dead being is "gone" or "no longer there"? A dead body may still have feelings. Only science may have not discovered it yet. Isn't life, therefore, an everlasting process of transformation that may be linear at times and cyclic at times or either forever? It's only that we feel X is dead and Y is alive, whereas all are always alive. There doesn't appear to be a Law of Karma because Karma comes from intentions, which come from mind, which is said to have been created by God. So is God a faulty creator? Or is the Law of Karma just as real as nothing? Isn't everything automatic? that never started and would never come to an end? Good people today may become demons tomorrow and vice versa. Where is the room for Death, Karma, Everlasting reward or punishment, and God?

 

[Robert.Evans]

What do you think Chopra means when he says:

"What happens when you die, is you return to where you always are."

Here also is the video of the interview:

To return to the original-state of Self, the One, the Infinite. There is only ONE God; thus we ARE and are PART OF that One. The physical state is transitional to further physical states until such time as we are "completed". Then we return to the fullness of the Source (God) which we then become ourselves. i agree with what he says..did not watch vid.

 

[Robert.Evans]

The supreme question is long:

Q: Is there really any such thing as matter? I mean, even atom is not the smallest conceivable particle of objects we come across. Isn't it all energy? Energy that takes shapes? Transformable energy is what I call it. And whether it is matter or energy, it is conserved. It cannot be created or destroyed. So why do we even think that a dead being is "gone" or "no longer there"? A dead body may still have feelings. Only science may have not discovered it yet. Isn't life, therefore, an everlasting process of transformation that may be linear at times and cyclic at times or either forever? It's only that we feel X is dead and Y is alive, whereas all are always alive. There doesn't appear to be a Law of Karma because Karma comes from intentions, which come from mind, which is said to have been created by God. So is God a faulty creator? Or is the Law of Karma just as real as nothing? Isn't everything automatic? that never started and would never come to an end? Good people today may become demons tomorrow and vice versa. Where is the room for Death, Karma, Everlasting reward or punishment, and God?

Matter exists in the sense that we call solid things matter; but as being ACTUALLY made out of solid things, it does not. There is no solidity in atoms, you are right, and I would agree that it is changing energy. But the New Testament also says that we should fear him who can destroy both body and soul in the valley of Hinnom. Thus, much like sleep, there can be a time where are own awareness is switched off, so therefore, dead. Equally, if everything is Consciousness, then it is conceivable that are own thoughts which make up our own mind may well be recycled in a way that is not recognisable as us. That also may be seen as dead. Ecclesiastes 9.5 also says that "the dead know nothing and even the memory of them is forgotten"; which would seem to back up what I said.

 

[Robert.Evans]

1> How does blood cleanse anything?
2> How does blood sacrifice pay for sin?

1> How does blood cleanse anything?

2> How does blood sacrifice pay for sin?
__________________

Open questions are great aren't they, with an open inquisitive mind, we find questions which need answers, which is good, that is how we learn. My take is this:

Does not the New Testament say that only when someone dies that the Will will come into effect. So someone has to ultimately die in order to receive the Will (covenant). Thus when we die we receive our Will (covenant). This is the promise from God to those enlightened. Now, in this physical realm of the world, it is seen in a physical worldly way. Thus it replicates things gone before though not revealing them perfectly. Everything we do is "types and shadows of things to come". So we must cast our minds back and ask what was the first blood shed. In the OT it was Able. Able was good and is symbolic of the Mashiyach (Christ). Therefore the Original blood that was shed was Divine; he "chosen before the world began"; and if chosen, therefore sacrificed also before the world began. If all things are Fractal and Consciousness then we should expect to see it this way. But why then blood and how does it help anything? This is a good question, and is somewhat hard to comprehend as we see it in physical terms, which it is not, not ultimately. The OT tells us that the life-force is in the blood, which is why they drained it from animals in order to not take in that animals soul. This is also mentioned in the NT Acts. If the Soul of Life-force is in the blood then it could be seen as more relative as this would give life to everything which comes after it. As the REAL Adam (male and female) had within it everything, animal also, (thus we evolved), it could be seen that a divine-man shedding divine-blood would give life to lower forms, (lower as all things lesser are lower, hence gravity). So the death of the first Adam, which was a replication of the Mashiyach was the Instigator to Life, the beginning of Life before such time as we would know it, and within the Super-Consciousness, that is, the Nature and Mind of God.

Even now, we, can give blood in order to save someone who is short of it (not that I recommend it). So the divine-man gives its life for the life to come, the body becoming the solidity that we see and the blood becoming the ethereal, fluid, that we see. It all follows a Fractal Print through imperfect replications of that Print. Being therefore "clothed" with the blood, it is seen as a new life, a new soul, and so, "cleansed in the blood of the lamb". Interesting that it is mentioned as a lamb, a lower beast. But then even El (Canaanite God) was seen as a "Bull", and interesting again that they should have bullfighting in Spain.

So I would say that the lifefource or Soul is in the blood and that is given for other lower forms of life to live, which are not good enough within themselves. That means that before the world even began, the Saviour has given of his life to us.

 

[Robert.Evans]

God is not the problem; man is. It is man who creates a concept of God in his image and in his favor, under whose authority man can then 'justifiably' take over a neighboring country. That's what the Jews did then, and what Americans did to the Indians. There is no difference. Man is forbidden to kill, but it is OK when God does it, as the Deluge and other mass deaths attributed to God are testament to. This God is nothing more than a projection from the mind of man.

'foreign elements'? your wording is telltale. Who are the 'foreigners'? Obviously those who are directed by Manifest Destiny, and not the indigenous people.

________________

Starting from the Original Print of the Nature of Source I would say that you were right, we do indeed create "a concept of God in [our own] image". But this is always the case. It stems however from a visual idea of the Origin that it depicts. Thus the picture is incomplete and shows part of our nature within it. The super-consciousness within the All evolves and develops, eventually bringing about a 'peak' which is the culmination of 'God'. Thus what is seen is what is, but imperfectly brought about.
The other interesting idea that it is wrong for Man to kill but ok for God is also interesting, and yet, is this not seen in our everyday lives. Have you never heard the saying, "Do as I say not as I do". Thus even the Reflection of God is brought about in an imperfect way, which in one sense it had to. We even have police which must break the law in order to keep it. For example, if someone is speeding, the police may chase them, therefore breaking the law; this of course is for the greater good. It is much like the chastisement of a child which is for the greater good. It is then ONLY when we see God in his true form, and the Fractal Nature of his own Self, that we see that the one we speak of is a mere Reflection of the One that we think of. As also this is therefore a God of Flesh (not literally) then: "This God is nothing more than a projection from the mind of man", as indeed you said. Hence the reason he kills

 

[Thief]

________________

Starting from the Original Print of the Nature of Source I would say that you were right, we do indeed create "a concept of God in [our own] image". But this is always the case. It stems however from a visual idea of the Origin that it depicts. Thus the picture is incomplete and shows part of our nature within it. The super-consciousness within the All evolves and develops, eventually bringing about a 'peak' which is the culmination of 'God'. Thus what is seen is what is, but imperfectly brought about.
The other interesting idea that it is wrong for Man to kill but ok for God is also interesting, and yet, is this not seen in our everyday lives. Have you never heard the saying, "Do as I say not as I do". Thus even the Reflection of God is brought about in an imperfect way, which in one sense it had to. We even have police which must break the law in order to keep it. For example, if someone is speeding, the police may chase them, therefore breaking the law; this of course is for the greater good. It is much like the chastisement of a child which is for the greater good. It is then ONLY when we see God in his true form, and the Fractal Nature of his own Self, that we see that the one we speak of is a mere Reflection of the One that we think of. As also this is therefore a God of Flesh (not literally) then: "This God is nothing more than a projection from the mind of man", as indeed you said. Hence the reason he kills

Not bad.
But what if the so called killing is not of God's hand?

Sodom and Gomorrah seem as close to an actually killing as it gets.

But today we say it was a coincidence of a meteor shower.
A few were spared for cause of premonition.

I do suspect God is able and willing to destroy.
But I think His action is withheld until after we die.
The soul would then be the item questioned.

 

[dantech]

Here's a question.

Why does what might happen after I die matter in my current life? Would you base your future decisions on what you believe the outcome would be in your afterlife?

 

[Thief]

Here's a question.

Why does what might happen after I die matter in my current life? Would you base your future decisions on what you believe the outcome would be in your afterlife?

The peace of heaven is guarded.
Angels have been displayed with sword in hand for generations.

Why allow you to pass by without some question?
Think maybe they won't notice as you approach?

 

[dantech]

The peace of heaven is guarded.
Angels have been displayed with sword in hand for generations.

Why allow you to pass by without some question?
Think maybe they won't notice as you approach?

I haven't the slightest idea of what you are saying here...

 

[Thief]

I haven't the slightest idea of what you are saying here...

Don't believe in heaven?

If you do....there are no restrictions?

So what do you anticipate in your last hour?

 

[Muffled]

God is not the problem; man is. It is man who creates a concept of God in his image and in his favor, under whose authority man can then 'justifiably' take over a neighboring country. That's what the Jews did then, and what Americans did to the Indians. There is no difference. Man is forbidden to kill, but it is OK when God does it, as the Deluge and other mass deaths attributed to God are testament to. This God is nothing more than a projection from the mind of man.

'foreign elements'? your wording is telltale. Who are the 'foreigners'? Obviously those who are directed by Manifest Destiny, and not the indigenous people.

I can agree with that.

Although i believe this is true in some cases, I don't believe it is true in all cases. This is faulty reasoning that one incident describes all incidents.

It isn't that simple. I believe the people of Israel were following God's instructions not justifying their own actions.

I don't believe there is any connection between the two.

I believe that is absolutely correct. God reserves the right to decide when a person should die.

I believe this is a figment of your imagination.

The foreigners were the Mexicans who theoretically owned Texas and California. Manifest Destiny was never a policy directed at indigenous people. Indiginous people were considered uncivilized pagans. The indigenous people had no concept of people owning land but they believed in defending their territory if it were encroached upon. The Settlers envisioned empty land that could be owned and their settlement became an encroachment causing conflict. As usual in any conflict the stronger side wins.

 

[dantech]

Don't believe in heaven?

If you do....there are no restrictions?

So what do you anticipate in your last hour?

Who says I don't believe in heaven?

My question was: why should what we believe might happen in our afterlife affect our current actions?

 

[Muffled]

You just haven't awakened yet to the reality of seeker and that which is sought being one and the same. When you awaken, there will no longer be a seeker.

I believe you are making judgements with very little basis of reality. First of all you do not have any insight into my mental capabilities nor are you aware of my experiences. I believe your theories come from a materialistic view that is flawed in that not everything in the world is material.

 

[Muffled]

Did they try? Perhaps they did not. They said, he is going by himself, let him go, and let us close the chapter. Sort of put him on ignore.

The text didn't say they wouldn't but that they couldn't which implies that they wished to do so.

I believe this kind of conjecture describes something contrary to the nature of a violent mob.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Mob reaction is difficult to predict.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Not bad.
But what if the so called killing is not of God's hand?

It is in its deeper sense, the same thing. But in a more shallow sense, it is man.

Sodom and Gomorrah seem as close to an actually killing as it gets.
But today we say it was a coincidence of a meteor shower.
A few were spared for cause of premonition.
I do suspect God is able and willing to destroy.
But I think His action is withheld until after we die.
The soul would then be the item questioned.

The God of Flesh, yes, and therefore a lower Print of the Consciousness that it beholds. His action is everything around you including you, everything you see and don't see. He is spatial and temporal, in this Realm.

If you are saying that the Soul can die, Scripture is in agreement with you. This means that the part of us that is truly immortal (no matter what) is the Divine Self, or Father within us. The goal, according to Peter, is the Salvation of your Soul

 

[Thief]

It is in its deeper sense, the same thing. But in a more shallow sense, it is man.

The God of Flesh, yes, and therefore a lower Print of the Consciousness that it beholds. His action is everything around you including you, everything you see and don't see. He is spatial and temporal, in this Realm.

If you are saying that the Soul can die, Scripture is in agreement with you. This means that the part of us that is truly immortal (no matter what) is the Divine Self, or Father within us. The goal, according to Peter, is the Salvation of your Soul

Not much of a follower (especially with Peter)....

but with 7billion copies of a learning device that can only produce unique spirit...
yeah, we ARE intended to stand from the dust.