godnotgod
Thou art That
During the dream, are they not real to you? Only upon your awakening, do you realize their illusory character. Is this not true?
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What Happens When You Die?
- Thread starter godnotgod
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During the dream, are they not real to you? Only upon your awakening, do you realize their illusory character. Is this not true?
AlphaAlex115
Active Member
This is not true. I can tell within the dream that it is unreal.
godnotgod
Thou art That
I asked "If Maya is same as Brahman then why you are teaching us anything at all?" There is no answer but there is again an accusation.
If you insist that a weave, which is a temporary shape of water is the ocean, then I cannot debate on this.
I re-iterate that the essence of wave and ocean is same but a wave is not the ocean.
It is not a matter of just saying. It is a matter of experiencing.
Fake procalamations create only strife.
Do me a favour please. Kindly first check dictionary for the plain simple meaning of the word mAyA.
If you are unwilling let me note the english words here.
माया mAyA Creating illusions, jugglery, deception, unreal illusory image, supernatutral power.
Let me also add mAyAjAl is the web of magic. mAyin is magician, person who performs the magic. And mAyin is a name of God.
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Here lies the main problem. It is as if a mAyA ego can decide that brahman cannot be this or brahman cannot be that.
The waves do not decide their own existence or the existence of the ocean.
It is Brahman or the Supreme that asserts "I Am" and also "Let I be many".
But a great personality (GodnotGod), who denies being an individual ego person, however wants to rob Brahman of Brahman's freedom to exist as person or non person.
It is Brahman that appears as many for its sport (Leela). How can a mere ego (that actually is non existent) abort that Leela?
AlphaAlex115
Active Member
Well Being awake means im not dreaming... what are you on about?
godnotgod
Thou art That
Exactly. So how is it that, while sleeping, you 'can tell within the dream that it is unreal.' unless you are awake within the dream? You cannot have it both ways, unless you are a yogi, who can actually do this.
When asleep and dreaming, one does not know he is dreaming. That realization only occurs upon awakening.
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AlphaAlex115
Active Member
But being awake means you are not even DREAMING..... do you mean being conscious lol
godnotgod
Thou art That
It cannot. Only via Awakening can one abort the fiction of Identification. One must transcend from the 3rd state of Consciousness (ie; Identification) into the 4th (ie; Self-Remembering).
I do not wish to rob Brahman of anything.
I only wish to help Brahman remember that it has become transfixed by its own maya.
godnotgod
Thou art That
Simply because many see them as apart from one another. The origin and the manifestation are inseparable.
It is not a personal accusation, but merely an impersonal observation of a fact.
Then show me how you can speak of a wave without also including the ocean from which it emerges and returns.
Only atanu can refer to the scriptures as having said this and having said that.
There is a small universe present everywhere. Even in a grain of sand, the universe is hidden. This great doctrine is the background of a system of yoga practice known popularly as kundalini yoga – the shifting of the consciousness on the microcosmic centres of the individual which correspond to the macrocosmic planes of existence. To touch any part of the universe is to touch the whole universe. If we touch a grain of sand on the bank of the Ganga, we have touched the entire cosmos, because everywhere the same pattern is present. This great truth is taken advantage of in a meditational system known as kundalini sadhana.
http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/disc/disc_163.html
This corresponds exactly to consciousness as a non-local phenomenon, as well as to the holographic theory of the universe.
Good! The universe appears as maya when seen through the glass of Time, Space, and Causation, but when seen without this glass, it is none other than The Absolute.
Now Swami Vivekananda's [sic] statement that the Universe is the Absolute seen through the screen of time, space and causation allows us to get some interesting information, albeit in negative terms, about what he calls the Absolute.
Since it is not in time, it cannot be changing. Change takes place only in time.
And since it is not in space, it must be undivided, because division and separation occur only in space.
And since it is therefore one and undivided, it must also be infinite, since there is no "other" to limit it.
Now "changeless," "infinite," and "undivided" are negative statements, but they will suffice. We can trace the physics of our Universe from these three negative statements.
If we don't see the Absolute as what it is, we'll see it as something else. If we don't see it as changeless, infinite, and undivided, we'll see it as changing, finite, and divided, since in this case there is no other else. There is no other way to mistake the changeless except as changing. So we see a Universe which is changing all the time, made of minuscule particles, and divided into atoms.
The Equations of Maya
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What? Why should any one have any ignorance at all, if mAyA is nothing but brahman? Why do you need to keep on writing post after post to educate us poor ignorant fools? What impels you?
How does that prove that a wave and the ocean are same?
Ha ha. You are shy to acknowledge that mAyA simply means inscrutable magical power. mAyA, as shown before, is:?
माया mAyA Creating illusions, jugglery, deception, unreal illusory image, supernatutral power.
How can inscrutable magical power be same as Brahman?
.........
I sense that this topic is boring for all other readers. But, IMO, it is important to resolve it. For so many pages gng has been presenting us with a mixture of Zen and Vedanta.
But no school of Vedanta denies God. No school of vedanta denies a Self. And no school of vedanta holds that brahman and mAyA are same.
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Might what to look into lucid dreaming. There are youtube videos on this.
I think the question is while you are dreaming are you conscious of it being a dream.
I've had dreams so vivid that I suspected it was a dream but while in the dream I wasn't sure. I was afraid to test in in case I was mistaken.
I've also had a dream were I knew it was a dream. I could actual create and experience my own reality. This is very rare, this is what lucid dreaming attempts to create.
I think this is all besides GnG's point. Generally though while dreaming most people don't realize it's a dream until after they wake up.
There's been a few dreams the reality of which all seemed real, well I'm glad after waking they were only dreams. Did you ever have a dream that seemed so real while sleeping that it took you a few moments after waking up to realize it was only a dream?
So to your understanding, does maya exist?
As per advaita Vedanta, Brahman alone exists as one without a second Sat-Chit-Ananda (Truth, Consciousness, Bliss).
AlphaAlex115
Active Member
No because I know I was dreaming.. I must have lucid dreams all the time..
Is Sat-Chit-Ananda the experience of Brahman?
While a teenager I followed a Guru from India who taught Sat-Chit-Ananda, Satsang and a form of meditation. I read the Bhagavad Gita but only because I had a friend who was Harri-Khrisna. However there was no mention of the Vedas. Actually Brahman wasn't even mentioned. So some of this seems familiar. A lot of it is not.
Sorry, just trying to clarify. Does that mean you knew your were dreaming while you were dreaming? It's rare for most people.
Did you watch the movie inception? A dream within a dream? IOW you dream and while dreaming you dream about falling asleep and have another dream.
Some believe this life we experience, this separate existence is just a dream that "God" is having. If we were to wake from this dream, we would realize the experience of this life was only a dream, having had as much reality as one of your dreams.
AlphaAlex115
Active Member
Yeah I realise Im dreaming when im in a dream.. who doesn't lol
Do you realize you are dreaming now?
AlphaAlex115
Active Member
No because im awake and dont suffer from depersonalisation.