What Happens When You Die?

[psychoslice]

That story dies every day that I am alive. Each day there is a new story and and I am not the same person I was five minutes ago. The essence never changes though...never lives, nor dies...only the forms change. Those forms (illusions) change as our ability to percieve those forms changes.

Yes we are both at the same place, just different perceptions, that's good though.

 

[atanu]

Yes, he is. Brahman is Everything, The Absolute, to which there is no 'other'. The Jiva is 'that' as in 'tat tvam asi', only he does not know he is that.

Why should Brahman not know itself if there is no other? Brahman is defined as knowledge itself. Why should you even use a word such as mAyA and equate that with Brahman? Why should you take up upon yourself the job of teaching us? Are you alone a wise Brahman that knows itself and others are all ignorant Brahman?

You make no sense at all. You have jumbled up Buddhistic and Vedantic concepts badly and sticking to inane statements such as "a wave is same as the ocean" or "Maya is same as Brahman". If maya is same as Brahman then there is no cause for any ignorance and no cause why you should teach us.

.......

Dear GnG, assuming that you are talking of Vedantic 'tat tvam asi'. I humbly request you to restudy "tat tvam ask" (You are That).

The Tvam applies to the atma (soul-self) -- the Seer -- and not to the sensually Seen, which is modification of Mind (Prakriti). Only when the Seer is experienced as All, one can See the Universe as one's own Mind (Prakriti). And Prakriti (Nature) is not of same Ontological level as the Being.

Being is Sat-Chit-Ananda. Brahman is Sentient (Chit). Brahman is Truth, the Existent (Sat). Nature, OTOH, is insentient.

That Thou Art

But there is also an implied meaning of the words 'THAT' and 'THOU', namely Pure Consciousness itself, unassociated with any limiting adjuncts. It is common practice to explain a statement through its implied meaning when the direct meaning contradicts actual experience: when we say that a red hot iron ball burns something, we say the direct agent of burning is the iron; but the implied though real agent is fire, unassociated with iron.

Again in the statement "He spent the night on a sleepless pillow", the word 'sleepless' does not refer to the pillow but to the person who used the pillow. Similarly in the Vedic statement 'THAT THOU ART' the word "ART" denoted the identity of 'THAT' and "THOU", which directly refers to the conditioned Brahman and the embodied soul respectively. But this identity is obviously absurd, since they are poles asunder. Therefore, we must explain the statement by its implied meaning.

The identity is really based upon the Pure Consciousness which is the unrelated substratum of both. The limiting adjuncts in both cases are the creation of ignorance and therefore unreal; so these must be discarded.

Therefore the statement "THAT THOU ART" really conveys a transcendental experience of oneness which is beyond the body, mind, senses and ego and the sensations associated with them. When a person realises this oneness with Brahman. he is oblivious of the idea that he is an embodied being.

I am only trying to emphasise that without actual realisation of the non-dual Atman/Brahman, a mere parroting of "I am that" or "You are That" can only create more confusion.

Jesus taught "Be Ye Perfect as the Father in Heaven is". Similarly, Vedanta teaches "The non-Dual Brahman-Atman must be known". Without actually experiencing the non dual transcendental Reality, we are in the dual realm only.

More can be studied in below links.

tat tvam asi

Right Significance of Tat Twam Asi

Shantih Shantih Shantih

 

[AlphaAlex115]

It is of little consequence. That story dies every day that I am alive. Each day there is a new story and and I am not the same person I was five minutes ago. The essence never changes though...never lives, nor dies...only the forms change. Those forms (illusions) change as our ability to percieve those forms changes.



---

"I am not the same person I was five minutes ago..."

Do you have the ability to morph into other people or..........????

 

[Runewolf1973]

"I am not the same person I was five minutes ago..."

Do you have the ability to morph into other people or..........????

You realize that we all change every day, every minute, every second, with every moment that passes? Me might not always notice those changes because they are so subtle day to day, minute to minute, but they do happen.

 

[Nakosis]

My feelings on it are that the ocean creates the wave. The wave does not create the ocean.

 

[Runewolf1973]

My feelings on it are that the ocean creates the wave. The wave does not create the ocean.

My thoughts are that it doesn't matter either way because there is no right or wrong way to look at it.

 

[godnotgod]

Why should Brahman not know itself if there is no other?

Because Brahman plays the game that way. It is pretense.

re: tat tvam asi: Thou art That, even if you don't know it. You are intrinsically That by default, whether it is being realized or not. To realize it is not to become it. That cannot become anything other than what it is, because That is The Changeless. All it can co is to see that it already is That.

The passage states: tat tvam asi. That is all it says. It is unconditional.

 

[godnotgod]

My feelings on it are that the ocean creates the wave. The wave does not create the ocean.

While true, that is saying something different than that the wave is the ocean.

Where does the distinction lie?

 

[Nakosis]

While true, that is saying something different than that the wave is the ocean.

Where does the distinction lie?

I thought to disagree as well, saying maya is Brahman.

However the saying, All is Brahman...

I can imagine a couch, add details like color, texture, even put someone sitting on it.

Does that couch have existence? Does my visualizing the couch give it existence? It exists in my mind. It's all internal, so is the couch me?

I can even imagine being the couch with some joker sitting on me. Am I the couch, or perhaps the joker sitting on it, both?

Does the couch really exist?

All is Brahman, maya is just non-existent images created by Brahman.

 

[godnotgod]

I thought to disagree as well, saying maya is Brahman.

However the saying, All is Brahman...

I can imagine a couch, add details like color, texture, even put someone sitting on it.

Does that couch have existence? Does my visualizing the couch give it existence? It exists in my mind. It's all internal, so is the couch me?

I can even imagine being the couch with some joker sitting on me. Am I the couch, or perhaps the joker sitting on it, both?

Does the couch really exist?

All is Brahman, maya is just non-existent images created by Brahman.

Yes, the couch is also 'you', because it is in 'your' consciousness. You are focusing on the differences in form. The wave is also the ocean, because it emerges from the ocean, and there is no point at which it is disconnected from the ocean. Both are water. Both you and the manifested universe are the same: consciousness. The very fact that the manifestations are temporal points back to their source.

Where does Brahman leave off and maya begin? The point at which we make such distinction is where mind comes into play, but mind too is a play of maya. Without mind, there is no distinction. Therefore:

'The universe IS the Absolute, as seen through the glass of Time, Space, and Causation'
Vivekenanda

and.....

'Nothing we see or hear is perfect, and yet there, in the midst of all the imperfection, lies Perfect Reality'
Shunryu Suzuki

 

[godnotgod]

It's all internal, so is the couch me?

Now further imagine that you have the power to manifest an image as an object into space outside of your mind/body. Let's say that it is a star. Now further imagine that you are so enamored of your 'creation' that you decide to become wholly engaged with it, so you enter into its form, and pretend to actually be that imaginary star to the extent that you even forget your original point of departure. You are still all the while 'That', but are at the same time, the 'star'. But stars die, and you become disenchanted, so you begin to seek a solution. One day you awaken to remember that it was just a game you were playing, and you realize your true nature, which is that which imagined itself to be something other than what it actually is.

 

[Thief]

It is of little consequence. That story dies every day that I am alive. Each day there is a new story and and I am not the same person I was five minutes ago. The essence never changes though...never lives, nor dies...only the forms change. Those forms (illusions) change as our ability to percieve those forms changes.---

How then to ever say you know yourself?

And if you don't know yourself.....how then to tell anyone else what they should know about themselves?

The change is there...a little bit at a time.
A large change is called a psychotic break.

How do you feel?

 

[Thief]

It is of little consequence. That story dies every day that I am alive. Each day there is a new story and and I am not the same person I was five minutes ago. The essence never changes though...never lives, nor dies...only the forms change. Those forms (illusions) change as our ability to percieve those forms changes.



---

On the other hand I might agree that the form changes.

When we die...some of us will take wing and move on.
Some of us will do no more than crawl away.

 

[John Martin]

In a recent interview, famed medical doctor and spiritualist Deepak Chopra stated the following:

Q: What happens when you die, Deepak?

Chopra: What happens when you die, is you return to where you always are. If you realize right now that there's no such thing as a person, you'll be all set.

Q: What do you mean, I'll be all set?

Chopra: Then if you shift your identity to that consciousness that is differentiating as observer and observant, you'll know there's nothing to fear.

Q: You have no fear of death.

Chopra: No Sir! Why? Because I don't exist in the first place!

Q: Can you get reincarnated as a soul?

Chopra: [Sighs] Wisps of memory and threads of desire, which are specks of information, latch onto specks of consciousness and show up as recycled human beings. But in the bigger picture, the observer, the observed, the process of observation, is a single reality.

Q: So... Deepak Chopra, as I know him [questioner taps the sitting Chopra solidly on the knee for effect] my friend Chopra... doesn't exist?

Chopra: A transient behavior of... the total universe.

What do you think Chopra means when he says:

"What happens when you die, is you return to where you always are."

Here also is the video of the interview:

[youtube]erOD_2AxzI0[/youtube]
Deepak Chopra "Life After Death" Interview Hottype - YouTube

Human consciousness oscillates between two river beds. One is eternal and the other is temporal. One is infinite and the other is finite. The finite has two aspects: physical and psychological. Physical is body and psychological is our desires and various identifications. The physical and psychological have a beginning and an end. Since everything that has a beginning will have an end.
The infinite also has two aspects: the eternal and its radiance, like the Sun and its radiance. The ray of the eternal present in the body and in the psychological level.
When the body dies it merges with the elements it is made of, earth, water, fire, air and ether. The psychological self(soul) may still remains in the cosmos like a cloud may manifest in the future individuals, not as reincarnation, but as a store house of memory which can be used and made live. The consciousness that is present in the soul may move higher and realize being the radiance of the divine and finally realize being one with the Divine. The divine and its radiance are eternal. They have no beginning and an end. They have no birth and death. Our real identity is that. Once we realize that then we know there is no death as such. It is our body and soul, that have a beginning and an end. Our true nature is not finite but infinite.
I think this is what respected Deep Chopra means when he says, you return to a place where you have always been.

 

[godnotgod]

The consciousness that is present in the soul may move higher and realize being the radiance of the divine and finally realize being one with the Divine. The divine and its radiance are eternal. They have no beginning and an end. They have no birth and death. Our real identity is that. Once we realize that then we know there is no death as such. It is our body and soul, that have a beginning and an end. Our true nature is not finite but infinite.
I think this is what respected Deep Chopra means when he says, you return to a place where you have always been.

Yes, and that 'return'* can occur only where there is a spiritual Awakening from our finite existence that is called Identification, to the state of our infinite, or true nature, a transformation you are calling 'realization'. It is upon this Awakening that the ordinary vision is transformed, allowing us to see the true nature of life and death, and of the transient nature of our existence.

* Actually, we do not 'return' at all, simply because we have never left in the first place! We only imagine that we have somehow become separated, either by sin or by falling asleep spiritually. Our true nature is always present, no matter what place we find ourselves in.

'Thou hast nor youth nor age, but, as it were, an after-dinner sleep dreaming on both'
TS Elliot

 

[Runewolf1973]

How then to ever say you know yourself?

And if you don't know yourself.....how then to tell anyone else what they should know about themselves?

The change is there...a little bit at a time.
A large change is called a psychotic break.

How do you feel?

Change happens at different rates on the physical level. The forms may change slowly or they may change rapidly. What we call life and dead are examples of large changes. To know yourself truly, is to know you are not those forms because those forms are illusions, you are the formless, changeless, eternal.

 

[godnotgod]

I thought to disagree as well, saying maya is Brahman.

However the saying, All is Brahman...

All is Brahman, maya is just non-existent images created by Brahman.

Here is the crux and paradox of the matter, as stated by Sri Sankara, and which has puzzled philosophers:

"The world is unreal;

Brahman is real;

the world is Brahman"]
(summary)

According to Sri Sankara, whatever is, is Brahman.
Brahman Itself is absolutely homogeneous.
All difference and plurality are illusory.

What Is Advaita Vedanta

'First there is a mountain;
then there is no mountain;
then there is'

 

[Thief]

Change happens at different rates on the physical level. The forms may change slowly or they may change rapidly. What we call life and dead are examples of large changes. To know yourself truly, is to know you are not those forms because those forms are illusions, you are the formless, changeless, eternal.

In previous post you describe yourself as changing.
In so doing you claim, you are not what you were, before the change.

The you dies...and another you takes it's place.

All this due to interaction.

I might agree as long as 'you' do not cease to be 'you'.

Consider proximity if the above confuses 'you'.
'You' are there...'I' am here.

We are interacting as is.
I suspect this sort of thing could go on forever.
As long as 'you' are somewhere close enough to participate.

 

[John Martin]

Yes, and that 'return'* can occur only where there is a spiritual Awakening from our finite existence that is called Identification, to the state of our infinite, or true nature, a transformation you are calling 'realization'. It is upon this Awakening that the ordinary vision is transformed, allowing us to see the true nature of life and death, and of the transient nature of our existence.

* Actually, we do not 'return' at all, simply because we have never left in the first place! We only imagine that we have somehow become separated, either by sin or by falling asleep spiritually. Our true nature is always present, no matter what place we find ourselves in.

'Thou hast nor youth nor age, but, as it were, an after-dinner sleep dreaming on both'
TS Elliot

* Actually, we do not 'return' at all, simply because we have never left in the first place! We only imagine that we have somehow become separated, either by sin or by falling asleep spiritually. Our true nature is always present, no matter what place we find ourselves in.

Yes, I fully agree with you. It is not returning but awakening from dream or sleep.
Many thanks.

 

[Thief]

* Actually, we do not 'return' at all, simply because we have never left in the first place! We only imagine that we have somehow become separated, either by sin or by falling asleep spiritually. Our true nature is always present, no matter what place we find ourselves in.

Yes, I fully agree with you. It is not returning but awakening from dream or sleep.
Many thanks.

Well I don't agree......
There is sure to be consequence for what we say and do.

And I suspect we have no option but to share our dreams!

I will see you there!