What if Heaven didn't Exist?

[inquirer]

It’s been longer than I would have liked since my first question (religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29372), but you can’t rush these things, eh?

Second question time: A hypothetical one too.

If, through some undeniable indication (doesn’t matter what right now, only that it would be hypothetically irrefutable), proof of a single God (not necessarily the Christian one or any other specifically) was presented, would you then believe in it?

Thinking about that, the whole thing about irrefutable proof is, well, believability… let me rephrase that.

If proof of a monotheistic God existed, would you worship God?

Now here’s the real question (that above was warm up):

If this proof existed, but – and here’s the catch – that proof eliminated the possibility of heaven or an afterlife and God existed but wouldn’t let you in the door no matter how devoted a follower you were, would you still worship God?

How about if there was no such thing as heaven at all, but only a hell which you were sent to for being a ‘bad’ person, not a bad believer?

 

[Sunstone]

In what way(s) would the existence or non-existence of deity change the challenge of living in this world?

 

[Ormiston]

I struggle greatly with the concept of worship and perhaps you could clarify what you mean by it. In other words, what qualifies to this god as worship? I am thankful for a great many things. Is this good enough? If some sort of formal, visible, theatrics is mandated, my answer would be only if I was forced. If God or god or gods exist, they are just as much a part of my existance as I am of theirs. Worship doesn't make sense to me.

 

[evearael]

If evidence existed, yes I would believe. Since you have only said monotheistic God, and not given any more specifics, I would say I would only worship Him if He were merciful and just. My worship is not linked to a carrot in the end, as I focus on being the best person I can be in the here and now, so no change, regardless of the afterlife or lack thereof.

 

[Popeyesays]

It’s been longer than I would have liked since my first question (religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29372), but you can’t rush these things, eh?

How about if there was no such thing as heaven at all, but only a hell which you were sent to for being a ‘bad’ person, not a bad believer?

I am monotheistic, I do not believe in heaven or hell as discrete "places". BOth are states of being, not locations with an address.

Regards,
Scott

 

[lilithu]

I struggle greatly with the concept of worship and perhaps you could clarify what you mean by it. In other words, what qualifies to this god as worship? I am thankful for a great many things. Is this good enough? If some sort of formal, visible, theatrics is mandated, my answer would be only if I was forced. If God or god or gods exist, they are just as much a part of my existance as I am of theirs. Worship doesn't make sense to me.

"The Supreme Critic on the errors of the past and the present, and the only prophet of that which must be, is that great nature in which we rest, as the earth lies in the soft arms of the atmosphere; that Unity, that Over-soul, within which every man's particular being is contained and made one with all other; that common heart, of which all sincere conversation is the worship, to which all right action is submission; that overpowering reality which confutes our tricks and talents, and constrains every one to pass for what he is, and to speak from his character, and not from his tongue, and which evermore tends to pass into our thought and hand, and become wisdom, and virtue, and power, and beauty." (from Emerson, The Over-Soul)

"I believe in one God, Creator of the universe. That He governs it by His providence. That He ought to be worshipped. That the most acceptable service we render Him is doing good to His other children." (Ben Franklin)

 

[lilithu]

Now here’s the real question (that above was warm up):

If this proof existed, but – and here’s the catch – that proof eliminated the possibility of heaven or an afterlife and God existed but wouldn’t let you in the door no matter how devoted a follower you were, would you still worship God?

How about if there was no such thing as heaven at all, but only a hell which you were sent to for being a ‘bad’ person, not a bad believer?

I've posted this quote several times on RF but it never gets old (at least for me) :

O my Lord, if I worship Thee from fear of Hell, burn me in Hell,
and if I worship Thee in hope of Paradise, exclude me thence, but if
I worship Thee for Thine own sake withhold not from me Thine
eternal beauty.

- Rabi'a al-Adawiyya

 

[sojourner]

I would worship God and thank God for the life God had given me. Worship does not depend upon the dispensation of my soul in the afterlife.

 

[gnostic]

If proof of a monotheistic God existed, would you worship God?

The only way you can prove the existence of God, would him to appear before all of us. That's the only way it can be refutable.

Not by his angels. This has been done before, and I am no where in believing or worshipping god.

Even if God exist, as living proof, I don't want to share heaven with him, or hell with Satan. I would like to learn a little more about him, to uncover him, but that doesn't mean that I would love or worship him. If there is this proof, then I would believe, but it really doesn't mean that I would worship him.

How can I love a being if he is not active in my life? I can't even love a person who I have never met personally before, so how do you expect me to love a god? Love is a personal emotion, and require a real presence. If you can't see, hear or touch a god then this so-called love is hollow and empty.

I do have one request from him, if he really exist. My soul or my spirit (if it really exist) would cease to exist when I die, because I don't want an afterlife. For me, one life-time is enough for me, simply because I don't want to live for eternity.

 

[lilithu]

I do have one request from him, if he really exist. My soul or my spirit (if it really exist) would cease to exist when I die, because I don't want an afterlife. For me, one life-time is enough for me, simply because I don't want to live for eternity.

Hey, he said assume proof of God's existence. What makes you think that means you have a soul?

 

[gnostic]

What makes you think that means you have a soul?

That's why I wrote "My soul or my spirit (if it really exist) would..."

 

[Karl R]

If, through some undeniable indication (doesn’t matter what right now, only that it would be hypothetically irrefutable), proof of a single God (not necessarily the Christian one or any other specifically) was presented, would you then believe in it?

Yes. I believed in god without proof.

that proof eliminated the possibility of heaven or an afterlife and God existed but wouldn’t let you in the door no matter how devoted a follower you were, would you still worship God?

As a 13-year-old, I became a christian out of fear of hell and a desire to go to heaven.

Later in life, I realized that heaven and hell no longer really mattered to me. My beliefs have led me to become a better person. That is sufficient reward.

If the athiests are correct and death = the end of my existence, I don't care. My faith (and all the sacrifices that came with it) has been worth it.

 

[DakotaGypsy]

Heaven is where you create it.

 

[jewscout]

since i don't concern myself w/ the afterlife...what difference would it make.

 

[bunny1ohio]

If, through some undeniable indication proof of a single God was presented, would you then believe in it?

If proof of a monotheistic God existed, would you worship God?

If that proof eliminated the possibility of heaven or an afterlife and God existed but wouldn’t let you in the door no matter how devoted a follower you were, would you still worship God?

How about if there was no such thing as heaven at all, but only a hell which you were sent to for being a ‘bad’ person, not a bad believer?

Well of course I would believe in it if the proof was irrefutable. :162:
Would I worship it just because it existed? No :jam:
and no and no again :jiggy:

Why should I worship something simply because it exists, especially if you get nothing from it? :149:

 

[lilithu]

That's why I wrote "My soul or my spirit (if it really exist) would..."

I like Camus' take on it:

If there is a soul, it is a mistake to believe that it is given to us fully created. It is created here, throughout a whole life. And living is nothing else but that long and painful bringing forth.



Being a theist (of sorts) I would say that yes, there is a Spirit, but it doesn't belong to you anyway, so don't worry about it.

 

[Maxist]

If there was this 'proof' then I would not worship It. That would make it a non-sentient being, and so would not need the worship. In fact I would fight It is it were to bar the gates of Heavan. I would then not worship it for the third situation, I would be a better person possibly, but not much of one, never the less. I would need more specifics to be properly able to answer this question.

 

[Ormiston]

In fact I would fight It is it were to bar the gates of Heavan.

:clap What a magnificent statement.