What if we accepted each others Religion?

[loverofhumanity]

As I've said close to 100 times before, in Hinduism, it applies to one sect only.

Yes

 

[loverofhumanity]

Show me.

There’s just way too much. All I can suggest is you research it yourself online as the information is there for anyone to see. Meanwhile I still believe that once people investigate each others religion deeply, they will find a lot of common ground which will create more tolerance and lessen prejudice.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The thing is tolerance and friendship between the religions is most important. I don’t think we have got to that stage yet but with things like interfaith we are moving in that direction and that’s good for all mankind.

As a Baha’i, I accept all the major religions, their Founders and Holy Books.

Throughout this thread, you've told us about how you don't actually accept other religions. I'd also say that your attitude of "I only accept parts of what you are, not your whole essence" is pretty intolerant.

I do believe that each religion prophecies the next religion but that the priests prevent their followers from accepting it which ends up with humanity being divided into several religions when in reality there was only ever one evolving religion.

And that "only one evolving religion" just happens to be your own, right? Funny, that.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Are you suggesting these Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, adherents who “would visit each others places of worship to meditate and pray together”are less studious in their faith and follow it blindly and without question unlike who….
you and other Baha’i?

They're blind, thoughtless sheep until @loverofhumanity 's proselytizing works and they convert to the Baha'i faith. At that point, they magically become intelligent and discerning.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

There are both Jews and Buddhists who believe their messiah figure has come.

See Sutta Central no. 8

SuttaCentral

Early Buddhist texts from the Tipitaka (Tripitaka). Suttas (sutras) with the Buddha's teachings on mindfulness, insight, wisdom, and meditation.

suttacentral.net

So "accepting" those religions would mean simultaneously believing that a messiah has come and believing that a messiah hasn't come.

I'm sure you can see the problem here.

 

[SalixIncendium]

There’s just way too much. All I can suggest is you research it yourself online as the information is there for anyone to see. Meanwhile I still believe that once people investigate each others religion deeply, they will find a lot of common ground which will create more tolerance and lessen prejudice.

Ah, the ol' "I can't provide anything to support my claim, so go look it up yourself" argument.

I ask for just one...and you don't even have to do hours research to find them and quote them all...just one from the scripture of my region...the Upanishads.

I'll wait right here.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

the teachings of Baha’u’llah have led to the creation of the only world community in existence comprised of a cross section of the human race - all races, religions and nationalities operating under one world governance. The Baha’i approach is through spiritual education. To view the entire human race as one’s family. This will take a long time.

This is an example of the Baha'i fooling themselves, suggesting that their movement is making an appreciable difference and will eventually bring the world together doing what they do. Platitudes like we are all one people are as effete as telling people to love one or love enemies or treat them as you would be treated. Nobody does those things because somebody recommended or commanded it.

And the Baha'i are far from the only world community bringing people together and making a difference. How about Amnesty International, or Doctors Without Borders, or Greenpeace, or the United Nations. All of these people are doing more that patting themselves on the back while singing kumbaya.

The world outside has big problems it just cannot seem to fix.

The Baha'i have no solutions. Like the other religions, they just point at these problems and claim that it means that there is a need for them. You want to imply that you can fix them, but you can't. The Jehovah's Witnesses will rescue you from the world. The Christians seem to welcome such problems as harbingers of prophecy coming to fruition. And all say that they will be hated, and that they predicted that they would be hated and that the world is a troubled place as if that affirms anything about them.

So Baha’u’llah’s plan for uniting humanity is working while your world is literally falling apart at the seams with religions, races and nations against one another. Why can we get along yet your world cannot?

Here you are fooling yourselves again. You create a false dichotomy and take credit for getting along with like-minded people while blaming the rest for the world's troubles while doing nothing to mitigate them.

We can all do the same. My community is a bunch of retired expats living among Mexican nationals, and we all get along even as the cartels are shooting one another up and corrupt politicians are stealing. Why is it that can we all get along but YOUR world outside our community continues promoting homophobia and disparaging other religions? We're such good people, we expats. Live and let live we say, and try to brighten up somebody's day. Why can't everybody just follow our example? If they did, the world would be as one.

 

[F1fan]

The Baha’i approach is through spiritual education.

And that means religious indoctrination, which means rigid, dogmatic assumvtions that are not based in fact. That means inevitable conflict among different religions who do the same. Baha'i are just trying to claim a superiority over the others because you aren't violent. While you may not be physically violent you are aggressive dogmatically, and create conflict by asserting this superiority. It is a subtle wisdom the Baha'i don't have. You have ideals, you don't have the wisdom to understand the irony of your position.

To view the entire human race as one’s family. This will take a long time. There are no quick fixes such as Christ coming in the sky waving a wand. It’s hard work.

Humanists already beat you to this, and without divisive religious assumptions and claims. And note you seem to think Baha'i is the fix, whethe quick or not is irrelevant because you have no actual solutions to the actual human problems. Ideals don't solve anything.

You say our idealism is unrealistic yet the teachings of Baha’u’llah have led to the creation of the only world community in existence comprised of a cross section of the human race - all races, religions and nationalities operating under one world governance. How are we able to do that?

They are small communities, for one. And two, most all average humans want peace and to go about their business. The dilemma globally is that nations are large, and the citizens are often ignorant and poorly inflormed, and they will support leaders that seem strong but in reality are aggressive and willing to sacrifice peace for more power. Look at conservatives in the USA who support Trump, a person who is disturbed and is promising discord. This support can happen in a large society with disinformation that is broad and unaccountable to a community. Baha'i can work in small communities, but globally? There is no evidence of that. As I pointed out, you Baha'i have no solution to extremist groups, and you still don't. All you point to is how Baha'i can form small communities and get along. That's the ideal: that what works in a small community can extend to the planet. You are naive of human history and social patterns, including tribalism.

The world outside has big problems it just cannot seem to fix. Wars are increasing daily.

See the "world outside". There is your idealism at work. There is your divisiveness. That Baha'i communities have formed with willing participants points to how it is not a realistic model for the "world outside". And still, you have solutions of how to deal with those in the "world outside". Gonna build a wall? Gonna decide those in the "world outside" pose a threat to your idealistic communities and it's time to fight?

You really have no ides what you are talking about. War is often about resources, and to attempt any global peace would have to find a way to apvease those seeking resources that you have. Look at Russia wanting Ukraine. Look at Hamas wanting to eliminate Israel, and Israel trying to eliminate Hamas (with many citizens dying in the crude and misguided process). What solution do Baha'i have standing in the middle of Gaza? Send letters? Do more preaching? Advance peace as you dodge bullets?

So Baha’u’llah’s plan for uniting humanity is working while your world is literally falling apart at the seams with religions, races and nations against one another.

What plan? Where is the plan working, exactly? And how? Look how few have even heard of Baha'i. but you are so bold as to claim there's a plan, and it's working?

Why can we get along yet your world cannot?

My world? Look at your divisiveness. Shame, shame. So even you fall victim to tribalism, dogmatism, and divisiveness for the sake of your own ego. If Baha'u'llah has a plaan it's not working through you. As I noted, you Baha'i lack the wisdom to understand your own dogma. If you did, you would recognize that religion is the antithesis of peace, and humanism is a vastly superior approach since it has an authentic element that we all share.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Yes, as I know too well. this has been the technique on this forum for several years. Start a topic, wait for a few other posts, and then insert Baha'i philosophy ideas. A few years back I'd have personal side bets on which post it would happen. Usually before post 10. Good on you for figuring it out quickly. I also think there is a monthly goal on such things, as it's usually about a month before another very similar thread starts, as the current one eventually runs itself into silence. So it's very much bait, and sneaky proselytizing. But each time seems to get worse, as there are more people knowing about it and responding.

I’m sorry you believe that about us.

 

[loverofhumanity]

This is an example of the Baha'i fooling themselves, suggesting that their movement is making an appreciable difference and will eventually bring the world together doing what they do. Platitudes like we are all one people are as effete as telling people to love one or love enemies or treat them as you would be treated. Nobody does those things because somebody recommended or commanded it.

And the Baha'i are far from the only world community bringing people together and making a difference. How about Amnesty International, or Doctors Without Borders, or Greenpeace, or the United Nations. All of these people are doing more that patting themselves on the back while singing kumbaya.

The Baha'i have no solutions. Like the other religions, they just point at these problems and claim that it means that there is a need for them. You want to imply that you can fix them, but you can't. The Jehovah's Witnesses will rescue you from the world. The Christians seem to welcome such problems as harbingers of prophecy coming to fruition. And all say that they will be hated, and that they predicted that they would be hated and that the world is a troubled place as if that affirms anything about them.

Here you are fooling yourselves again. You create a false dichotomy and take credit for getting along with like-minded people while blaming the rest for the world's troubles while doing nothing to mitigate them.

We can all do the same. My community is a bunch of retired expats living among Mexican nationals, and we all get along even as the cartels are shooting one another up and corrupt politicians are stealing. Why is it that can we all get along but YOUR world outside our community continues promoting homophobia and disparaging other religions? We're such good people, we expats. Live and let live we say, and try to brighten up somebody's day. Why can't everybody just follow our example? If they did, the world would be as one.

Thanks for your opinions and views. You made some good points. I believe we all need to come together and work for the betterment of humanity. Problems like the veto end up harbouring dictatorships and war criminals because as soon as the UN tries to take action, one or another ally vetoes it so that empowers dictators and oppressors to ply their trade. We need all the nations to be on the same side - the side of humanity and operate according to principles not politics.

We accept all the other religions as true and believe in them and that religion is capable of transforming people.

 

[loverofhumanity]

And that means religious indoctrination, which means rigid, dogmatic assumvtions that are not based in fact. That means inevitable conflict among different religions who do the same. Baha'i are just trying to claim a superiority over the others because you aren't violent. While you may not be physically violent you are aggressive dogmatically, and create conflict by asserting this superiority. It is a subtle wisdom the Baha'i don't have. You have ideals, you don't have the wisdom to understand the irony of your position.

Humanists already beat you to this, and without divisive religious assumptions and claims. And note you seem to think Baha'i is the fix, whethe quick or not is irrelevant because you have no actual solutions to the actual human problems. Ideals don't solve anything.

They are small communities, for one. And two, most all average humans want peace and to go about their business. The dilemma globally is that nations are large, and the citizens are often ignorant and poorly inflormed, and they will support leaders that seem strong but in reality are aggressive and willing to sacrifice peace for more power. Look at conservatives in the USA who support Trump, a person who is disturbed and is promising discord. This support can happen in a large society with disinformation that is broad and unaccountable to a community. Baha'i can work in small communities, but globally? There is no evidence of that. As I pointed out, you Baha'i have no solution to extremist groups, and you still don't. All you point to is how Baha'i can form small communities and get along. That's the ideal: that what works in a small community can extend to the planet. You are naive of human history and social patterns, including tribalism.

See the "world outside". There is your idealism at work. There is your divisiveness. That Baha'i communities have formed with willing participants points to how it is not a realistic model for the "world outside". And still, you have solutions of how to deal with those in the "world outside". Gonna build a wall? Gonna decide those in the "world outside" pose a threat to your idealistic communities and it's time to fight?

You really have no ides what you are talking about. War is often about resources, and to attempt any global peace would have to find a way to apvease those seeking resources that you have. Look at Russia wanting Ukraine. Look at Hamas wanting to eliminate Israel, and Israel trying to eliminate Hamas (with many citizens dying in the crude and misguided process). What solution do Baha'i have standing in the middle of Gaza? Send letters? Do more preaching? Advance peace as you dodge bullets?

What plan? Where is the plan working, exactly? And how? Look how few have even heard of Baha'i. but you are so bold as to claim there's a plan, and it's working?

My world? Look at your divisiveness. Shame, shame. So even you fall victim to tribalism, dogmatism, and divisiveness for the sake of your own ego. If Baha'u'llah has a plaan it's not working through you. As I noted, you Baha'i lack the wisdom to understand your own dogma. If you did, you would recognize that religion is the antithesis of peace, and humanism is a vastly superior approach since it has an authentic element that we all share.

Humanism is good and has done good things and will definitely play a major role in improving the world. But I think humanism and religions working together is much more effective. The more of the different elements of society work together the sooner we will have peace.

 

[LuisDantas]

There’s just way too much. All I can suggest is you research it yourself online as the information is there for anyone to see. Meanwhile I still believe that once people investigate each others religion deeply, they will find a lot of common ground which will create more tolerance and lessen prejudice.

As it happens, I agree with the second part.

But I would wager that it will happen in a way somewhat different from what you hope for.

 

[loverofhumanity]

So "accepting" those religions would mean simultaneously believing that a messiah has come and believing that a messiah hasn't come.

I'm sure you can see the problem here.

There is a division yes. But those who have not accepted the messiah are not to be judged but accepted as equals.

 

[LuisDantas]

Yes

So you are admitting that you are hoping for a very specific trait of a single sect of a whole religion to be sufficient evidence that it will somehow converge towards your expectations in such a way that people of even the other sects to serious consider converting or at the very least tell you that yes, there is significant common ground between your doctrines.

Sorry, but that neither works nor is respectful, nor tolerant.

First of all, I think that you should pay some attention to how this tolerance and acceptance thing just does not work in the way that you are proposing.

You are trying real hard to find some sort of superficial shared idea or concept to present as evidence of convergence. That is nitpicking and offering very selective consideration to the elements of other creeds and religions. That is not respect; that is attempting to disregard other people's beliefs while also requesting that you be acknowledged as being respectful somehow. It is unilaterally deciding that the very significant differences are not important. It is taking for granted that when other doctrines disagree it must be because they are not "yet" sufficiently enlightened.

Is it so difficult to be at peace with the realization that things such as the expectation of an enlightened leader are simply not universally agreed on among religions? Now that is what would be expected from true respect for diversity of beliefs.

 

[LuisDantas]

There is a division yes. But those who have not accepted the messiah are not to be judged but accepted as equals.

... even though you are saying outright that they ought to realize that they should agree with you and the Bahai Faith more generally?

That is some measure of absence of judgement and equality of acceptance.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Praying for the departed

“Those who have ascended have different attributes from those who are still on earth, yet there is no real separation. "In prayer there is a mingling of station, a mingling of condition. Pray for them as they pray for you! When you do not know it, and are in a receptive attitude, they are able to make suggestions to you, if you are in difficulty.”

‘Abdu’l-Bahá in London
‘Abdu’l-Bahá

Do you know what Spiritualism is and what it entails?

I’m just trying to answer questions the best I can and do not intentionally disregard anyone. Sorry you feel that way.

You talk a good game, but I'm not convinced that you are genuinely sincere.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

There is a division yes. But those who have not accepted the messiah are not to be judged but accepted as equals.

So now you're talking about accepting people, not their religions. Do I understand you correctly.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Ah, the ol' "I can't provide anything to support my claim, so go look it up yourself" argument.

I ask for just one...and you don't even have to do hours research to find them and quote them all...just one from the scripture of my region...the Upanishads.

I'll wait right here.

The thing I understand is that every people were given guidance regarding future messiahs. For India that guidance came from the Bhagavad Gita and Mahabharata but not to my knowledge in the Upanishads. I can provide the one from the Gita but there is none from the Upanishads. But the people of India did receive guidance in other sources regarding the tenth avatar Kalki.

 

[loverofhumanity]

So now you're talking about accepting people, not their religions. Do I understand you correctly.

Not really. By accepting the promised messiah we have accepted the religion. Those who have not accepted the messiah are In fact the ones that have rejected their religion not us. So a Christian rejects Christ when He returns means he is no longer a Christian in fact although he may still call himself one.

 

[Eddi]

So Christians would accept Buddha and Muhammad, Buddhists would accept Christ and Baha’is etc

I think this is a most unrealistic expectation, it is totally far fetched, not going to happen

And instead of segregating ourselves in our own churches, pagodas, temples and synagogues, we would visit each others places of worship to meditate and pray together. We Baha’is already do this and read from all the sacred scriptures of each religion in all our services.

I am no longer a member of any religion but I would expect most who are would say "no thanks" to all this

I think this is code for wanting everyone to become a Bahai

Not going to happen