What if we accepted each others Religion?

[McBell]

Definition of WHAT word?
Your obfuscation will get you nowhere, because I am only going to keep repeating what I said before..

I am not advocating or promoting a belief or course of action.
Dishonesty? It would be dishonest if I said I was advocating or promoting a belief or course of action when I am not doing so.

I only share what I believe within the context of a discussion. That is what people do on a religious forum.

Share: give a portion of (something) to another or others. https://www.google.com

Certain people on this thread are continually speaking for other people and their motives on this forum.
That is beyond arrogant, and the fact that these people cannot even recognize their arrogance makes it all the worse.

Actually, what you did there was play loose and free with the definition of the word doctrine to support your argument when the definition of the word doctrine that was being presented to you is ALSO a definition of the word doctrine.

That is dishonest.

The rest of your back peddling holds no interest to me.

 

[Trailblazer]

That is dishonest.

No, I am as honest as the day is long, and the day is much too long.

Carry on.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Nothing was left out because I am not advocating or promoting a belief or course of action.
Dishonesty? It would be dishonest if I said I was advocating or promoting a belief or course of action when I am not doing so.

I only share what I believe within the context of a discussion. That is what people do on a religious forum.

Share: give a portion of (something) to another or others. https://www.google.com

Certain people on this thread are continually speaking for other people and their motives on this forum.
That is beyond arrogant, and the fact that these people cannot even recognize their arrogance makes it all the worse.

Maybe the other Baha'is are too sheepish to speak out against this kind of injustice, but I'm not. I speak up when I see an injustice.

I will remind the other Baha'is of what Baha'u'llah said about Justice.

2: O SON OF SPIRIT! The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice; turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I may confide in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not through the knowledge of thy neighbor. Ponder this in thy heart; how it behooveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and the sign of My loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes.

The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 3-4

This is to be expected. It’s perfectly ok for people to oppose our views and we should welcome it. It’s a debating forum so people debate.

As I see it, accepting the basic foundation of each others religion will require humanity to be highly spiritually developed. That is not now, which is why I believe there is some opposition to the idea, and it likely won’t really begin to be accepted for over 5-6 centuries. So I’m not surprised by the response. We Baha’is have no problems with accepting other Prophets, Teachers and Holy Books but the large portion of humanity still think this impossible or impractical because they see with the eyes of division and as of yet are unaware of Baha’u’llah ‘s unifying vision.

As a human race collectively we are struggling to find a common identity that will usher in peace - our common humanity. So I think that that is the next stage, to see each other as fellow humans and try and get along.

ye should requite opposition with the utmost benevolence and loving-kindness, (Abdul-Baha)

 

[Trailblazer]

This is to be expected. It’s perfectly ok for people to oppose our views and we should welcome it. It’s a debating forum so people debate.

As I see it, accepting the basic foundation of each others religion will require humanity to be highly spiritually developed. That is not now, which is why I believe there is some opposition to the idea, and it likely won’t really begin to be accepted for over 5-6 centuries. So I’m not surprised by the response. We Baha’is have no problems with accepting other Prophets, Teachers and Holy Books but the large portion of humanity still think this impossible or impractical because they see with the eyes of division and as of yet are unaware of Baha’u’llah ‘s unifying vision.

As a human race collectively we are struggling to find a common identity that will usher in peace - our common humanity. So I think that that is the next stage, to see each other as fellow humans and try and get along.

ye should requite opposition with the utmost benevolence and loving-kindness, (Abdul-Baha)

I think we are talking past each other. I am not talking about people who oppose our Baha'i beliefs.
I am talking about people who think they 'know' what are motives are. I consider it an injustice for people to state the motives of other people, since they can know what our motives are unless we tell them. Then, even after we tell them what our motives are not what they have stated, they still insist what they have stated is what our motives are.

Read what I said again:

Certain people on this thread are continually speaking for other people and their motives on this forum.
That is beyond arrogant, and the fact that these people cannot even recognize their arrogance makes it all the worse.

Maybe the other Baha'is are too sheepish to speak out against this kind of injustice, but I'm not. I speak up when I see an injustice.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I think we are talking past each other. I am not talking about people who oppose our Baha'i beliefs.
I am talking about people who think they 'know' what are motives are. I consider it an injustice for people to state the motives of other people, since they can know what our motives are unless we tell them. Then, even after we tell them what our motives are not what they have stated, they still insist what they have stated is what our motives are.

Read what I said again:

Certain people on this thread are continually speaking for other people and their motives on this forum.
That is beyond arrogant, and the fact that these people cannot even recognize their arrogance makes it all the worse.

Maybe the other Baha'is are too sheepish to speak out against this kind of injustice, but I'm not. I speak up when I see an injustice.

I agree that judging another’s motive is very unjust. I just view it as immaturity and try to be patient.

their motives misconstrued, their aims defamed, their aspirations derided (crisis and victory)

 

[Trailblazer]

It’s the same difference to me. They are trying to misconstrue our motives and that’s a common element of opposition to the Faith. The very reason they misconstrue our motives is because they are against the Faith. That is abundantly clear to me at least in my situation.

My motives are continually judged yet they are dead wrong.

their motives misconstrued, their aims defamed, their aspirations derided (crisis and victory)

Okay, I understand what you are saying now.

When your motives are judged, even though they are continually wrong, you accept that.
The difference between you and me is that I do not accept it when my motives are misconstrued.

I think that misconstruing our motives is 'separate' from being against the Faith.
People often misconstrue motives even when they are not even discussing the Faith.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Okay, I understand what you are saying now.

When your motives are judged, even though they are continually wrong, you accept that.
The difference between you and me is that I do not accept it when my motives are misconstrued.

I think that misconstruing our motives is 'separate' from being against the Faith.
People often misconstrue motives even when they are not even discussing the Faith.

Not really, I try and clear it up sometimes challenge it but if they stubbornly persist then I move on.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Maybe getting back to the topic of the thread is a good idea at this point.

It’s about unity and harmony of religion. What do I mean by ‘religion’? The teachings of the Lord. Not the dogmas and doctrines of religious leaders but the teachings of the Lord. Many of these teachings are eternal truths such as love one another, be kind, be generous .

The thing I hear a lot of from people is ‘I accept the sun of Monday but reject the sun of Tuesday’. I think there is a basic lack of discernment through lack of knowledge of each others faiths which gives rise to confusion and misunderstanding. There is only one ultimate reality, truth, God whatever you want to call it in my humble opinion and that we are squabbling over outward forms not the ‘inward reality’ and spiritual essence of each religion which is one.

The days may be called by different names but there is only one sun and it is the same spiritually I believe.

 

[danieldemol]

To say you know the mind of another person is very arrogant, but go ahead, knock yourself out!
You obviously have nothing better to do than pick on Baha'is and that says a lot more about you than it says about the Baha'is.

Ah the irony of saying its arrogant to know the mind of another person then acting like all that's on my mind is to pick on Baha'i s in my view.
Personally I'm just happy to pick apart what I see as dishonesty, should dishonesty and Baha'i s coincide I'm more than happy to oblige in my opinion.

 

[danieldemol]

we don’t have priests or rituals

Ah, there are no priests, but an allegedly infallible universal house of justice. There are no rituals but one has to chant Allah u Abha 95 times a day and say obligatory prayers lol in my opinion.

 

[McBell]

No, I am as honest as the day is long, and the day is much too long.

Sadly your posts do not reflect that claim.

Carry on.

Thank you so much for your permission.

 

[Trailblazer]

Ah the irony of saying its arrogant to know the mind of another person then acting like all that's on my mind is to pick on Baha'i s in my view.
Personally I'm just happy to pick apart what I see as dishonesty, should dishonesty and Baha'i s coincide I'm more than happy to oblige in my opinion.

The problem is that 'what you see' as dishonesty is not necessarily dishonesty, nor is it your job to point it out.
Calling others dishonest is both arrogant and rude. Why not just tend to your own faults and leave others to tend to theirs?

26: O SON OF BEING! How couldst thou forget thine own faults and busy thyself with the faults of others? Whoso doeth this is accursed of Me.
The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 10

66: O EMIGRANTS! The tongue I have designed for the mention of Me, defile it not with detraction. If the fire of self overcome you, remember your own faults and not the faults of My creatures, inasmuch as every one of you knoweth his own self better than he knoweth others.
The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 45

 

[Muffled]

Yeah, there are things like this to take into account, too.

There are things that are easy and some not so easy. At an Islamic prayer meeting I couldn't get my head all the way to the ground probably because at 81 I am not so lithe as I once was. Protestants are free to pray in any position.

 

[Muffled]

If that was true, the game would be over for them, but only God knows if that is true.

I believe if you don't play by the rules you lose even if it looks like you are winning. There was Boston Marathon runner who took the subway and won the race but of course later had her win taken away when they found out.

 

[Muffled]

I believe that many versions of Christ that Christians have are false, especially the version that says that the same Jesus is coming back to earth.

I believe time will reveal who is correct on that but maybe not in this lifetime.

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe time will reveal who is correct on that but maybe not in this lifetime.

I agree. Most people living now will die not knowing the truth.

 

[danieldemol]

The problem is that 'what you see' as dishonesty is not necessarily dishonesty, nor is it your job to point it out.

Its not your job to post on this forum, presumably you do it because its a privilege.

Calling others dishonest is both arrogant and rude. Why not just tend to your own faults and leave others to tend to theirs?

Ah the irony of calling someone arrogant and claiming in the same sentence we should only tend to our own faults - physician heal thyself.

That is your belief, not mine. My belief is that egregious faults should be corrected, and I see dishonesty as an egregious fault standing in need of correction.

 

[Trailblazer]

Its not your job to post on this forum, presumably you do it because its a privilege.

That is a red herring.

I said: The problem is that 'what you see' as dishonesty is not necessarily dishonesty, nor is it your job to point it out.

Ah the irony of calling someone arrogant and claiming in the same sentence we should only tend to our own faults - physician heal thyself.

But I did not CALL YOU arrogant, as YOU CALLED ME dishonest.

I said: Calling others dishonest is both arrogant and rude.
That was a general statement that I believe applies to anyone who calls other people dishonest.

And then I asked you a question: Why not just tend to your own faults and leave others to tend to theirs?

That is your belief, not mine. My belief is that egregious faults should be corrected, and I see dishonesty as an egregious fault standing in need of correction.

I am not pointing out your faults. You just pointed out your own faults, and then shared them on a public forum.

I guess it is a good thing you are not a Baha'i anymore, because if you still were you would be going against the Writings of Baha'u'llah.
What you said is so far from what Baha'u'llah enjoined us to do that it makes me cringe.

26: O SON OF BEING! How couldst thou forget thine own faults and busy thyself with the faults of others? Whoso doeth this is accursed of Me.

27: O SON OF MAN! Breathe not the sins of others so long as thou art thyself a sinner. Shouldst thou transgress this command, accursed wouldst thou be, and to this I bear witness.
The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 10

66: O EMIGRANTS! The tongue I have designed for the mention of Me, defile it not with detraction. If the fire of self overcome you, remember your own faults and not the faults of My creatures, inasmuch as every one of you knoweth his own self better than he knoweth others.
The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 45

 

[Secret Chief]

Certain people on this thread are continually speaking for other people and their motives on this forum.
That is beyond arrogant, and the fact that these people cannot even recognize their arrogance makes it all the worse.

I know what you mean. Even worse, some declare people of another religion have in fact got some of the fundamentals of their religion wrong and then go on to lay out what the religion really is all about. You can't get more arrogant than that.

 

[Secret Chief]

As I see it, accepting the basic foundation of each others religion will require humanity to be highly spiritually developed. That is not now, which is why I believe there is some opposition to the idea, and it likely won’t really begin to be accepted for over 5-6 centuries.

Contradictory narratives will still be contradictory narratives in 5-6 centuries. The Buddha was not a Messenger of the Abrahamic god two thousand five hundred years ago and he still won't have been one in 5-6 centuries. Etc etc etc.