What if you sin not knowing you sinned?

[Ryan2065]

Seems like an odd question, but I really don't think it is. With so many different translations of the bible and other different holy documents, who's to say what is or isn't a sin?

Here is a good example... Lets say you believe that you are not to kill anyone under any circumstances. But lets say you just misinterpreted the bible and you are allowed to kill to defend your country. Your country is invaded, you die because you do not want to kill, that means you died in sin and go to hell. No?

Another example is lets say you believe it is alright to kill when defending your country, but it is not ok and you are not to kill under any circumstances. You die defending your country, but that means you die in sin and go to hell.

Seems to me to be pretty crappy either way. What are other people's thoughts on this?

 

[jewscout]

i think HaShem would know what was truely in your heart...if you didn't know any better i don't think you'd be punished because of it...but then who's to say how we will be judged at the end

 

[michel]

I agree with Jewscout - God would know what your true 'motives' were; if they were innocent, then, I believe, he would see you as being innocent of the 'sin'.

Second thought; a psychotic has no conscience. Is he guilty of sin?

 

[blueman]

In the Bible, there have been many examples of biblical figures who engaged in war and were even supported by God in that effort, either in self defense or in reclaiming a piece of land from an enemy, just to address your specific example. In these instances, they were within the will of God. But I think many people who sin willingly or harbor sin in their hearts will be judged accordingly, just like we all will by God. There are some people, who do not know Christ or God's will who sin willingly without a conscious because that is part of their nature. Christians sin, but are not "slaves to sin" dominates their lives and behavior. Even though they sin, those sins are redeemed through the blood of Christ and if they repent, they will be forgiven by God through Jesus Christ.

 

[Ryan2065]

So what about those that have never heard of Christ? He says that the only way to heaven is through him, and those that have never heard of him can not believe that he is gods son... This is just another example of someone who sinned and didn't know it... Do they get to heaven or are they damned to hell because of where they were born?

 

[jewscout]

So what about those that have never heard of Christ? He says that the only way to heaven is through him, and those that have never heard of him can not believe that he is gods son... This is just another example of someone who sinned and didn't know it... Do they get to heaven or are they damned to hell because of where they were born?

well i've heard of him

 

[Scott1]

Seems to me to be pretty crappy either way. What are other people's thoughts on this?

Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.
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In other words... using your example... a sin would only be to not follow your conscience.... if you are wrong in judgement, fear not... God is a merciful father.

 

[Scott1]

So what about those that have never heard of Christ? He says that the only way to heaven is through him, and those that have never heard of him can not believe that he is gods son... This is just another example of someone who sinned and didn't know it... Do they get to heaven or are they damned to hell because of where they were born?

Those who die for the faith, those who are catechumens, and all those who, without knowing of the Church (Christ) but acting under the inspiration of grace, seek God sincerely and strive to fulfill his will, can be saved.

 

[blueman]

So what about those that have never heard of Christ? He says that the only way to heaven is through him, and those that have never heard of him can not believe that he is gods son... This is just another example of someone who sinned and didn't know it... Do they get to heaven or are they damned to hell because of where they were born?

No one can speak for God on this issue, but remember, He is a God of both grace and mercy and if someone never heard the message of the Gospel of Christ before they die, I believe God would extend grace to that individual, but only God knows.

 

[Sabio]

Seems like an odd question, but I really don't think it is. With so many different translations of the bible and other different holy documents, who's to say what is or isn't a sin?

Here is a good example... Lets say you believe that you are not to kill anyone under any circumstances. But lets say you just misinterpreted the bible and you are allowed to kill to defend your country. Your country is invaded, you die because you do not want to kill, that means you died in sin and go to hell. No?

Another example is lets say you believe it is alright to kill when defending your country, but it is not ok and you are not to kill under any circumstances. You die defending your country, but that means you die in sin and go to hell.

Seems to me to be pretty crappy either way. What are other people's thoughts on this?

Ryan, very good question, you are thinking deep!

Since you are asking a bible question, the bible says "to whom much is given much shall be expected" (paraphrase), so everything you are learning on this forum you are now responsible for, nice huh?

God makes sure that you know right from wrong!

"I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people'" (Jer. 31:33).

Sabio

 

[robtex]

Ryan from my understanding of theistic endeavors, sin is as constant as morality. Morality is universal in their estimation and as such can be achieved even in a state of ignorance. But as Scott pointed out in the christian theory, Jesus is merciful and will forgive them though their uniformed status does not lessen the sin but insteads shows an abridgement to Jesus who is the connection to all morality and the knowledge of what those universal and absolute moral are. The ignorance of sin is not a dimishment to the degree of sin of the deed but an illustration to the larger problem of detachement one has from Jesus, who if followed would lead one astray from all sin.

 

[jonny]

So what about those that have never heard of Christ? He says that the only way to heaven is through him, and those that have never heard of him can not believe that he is gods son... This is just another example of someone who sinned and didn't know it... Do they get to heaven or are they damned to hell because of where they were born?

1 Peter 4:6 states, "For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spririt."

I believe that everyone will be taught the Gospel, either in this life or the next life, and have the chance to accept Christ before they are judged.

Joseph F. Smith, the sixth LDS prophet, said "But behold, from among the righteous, [Christ] organized his forces and appointed messengers, clothed with power and authority, and commissioned them to go forth and carry the light of the gospel to them that were in darkness, even to all the spirits of men; and thus was the gospel preached to the dead."

 

[may]

So what about those that have never heard of Christ? He says that the only way to heaven is through him, and those that have never heard of him can not believe that he is gods son... This is just another example of someone who sinned and didn't know it... Do they get to heaven or are they damned to hell because of where they were born?

when we die we are awaiting a resurrection on to a paradise earth .John 5;28-29so if he has not had the chance to take in knowledge about Jehovah God and Jesus christ he will be resurrected into a paradise earth ,and then he can learn to live his life in line with Jehovah God and jesus christ.(there is no litral hellfire)and the majorityof people on the earth have the hope of a resurrection into a paradise earth if they die .

 

[Valjean]

Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest. [/QUOTE]




If moral principles are writ in every man's conscience, why are men's actions so diverse? History gives us countless examples of practices and beliefs that would be considered heinous to 21st C. sentiments, but were the social and cultural norms at the time, defended by mainstream religion. A century or two from now some of our practices will no doubt be condemned as evil and benighted by our progeny.

Few people operate from a Kohlberg level 3. Most do not really think about right action but simply absorb the cultural and religious values they are marinated in.

Personally, I see morality more as a constant, as a mechanical function of a universe governed by physics. God isn't bothered to personally evaluate and discuss with you every action and motivation in your life. He generates an algorithm and goes off on holiday.

Actions producing positive or negative outcomes (right and wrong) are sometimes visible, with obvious mechanisms. Ie: Hold a rock a meter above your toe and release it and you will have a sore toe -- you have sinned -- the laws (algorithm) of physics/morality have yielded a negative outcome. Some karma is not so clear or immediate. Release a planeload of bombs over Dresden and the immediate outcome is military honor, but the ultimate result is the lake of fire. Simple physics.


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[Scott1]

If moral principles are writ in every man's conscience, why are men's actions so diverse?

Free will.

There are maps and roadsigns all over the world, yet people still continue to get lost.... sinning is no different.

Simple physics.

What a neat way to put it.... I wish it were so simple to explain.



Scott

p.s. Can I just say I love your posts??!!!!?? You are such a wonderful person and a credit to your faith. Bless you.

 

[Valjean]

Thanks, Scott. I like your posts as well, that's why I feel compelled to reply to them.

 

[angelmoroni]

Do you really think God will punish the those who sin not knowing. That would thwart his whole plan. I am a Mormon LDS really..... and God is a loving God. Do you really think that God is going to send those millions of people to hell that have died without even hearing his name. I truly believe that he will not do that. Now, killing is a extreme example of sinning at not knowing. When it comes to war, God will be merciful to those that are obligated to serve and maybe kill for thier country. One ancient prophet said..."it is better for one man to perish, than a whole nation dwindle in disbelief".

 

[matey]

"Seems like an odd question, but I really don't think it is. With so many different translations of the bible and other different holy documents, who's to say what is or isn't a sin?"

"Here is a good example... Lets say you believe that you are not to kill anyone under any circumstances. But lets say you just misinterpreted the bible and you are allowed to kill to defend your country. Your country is invaded, you die because you do not want to kill, that means you died in sin and go to hell. No?"
No. If you are allowed to kill, but not required, you won't go to hell.

"Another example is lets say you believe it is alright to kill when defending your country, but it is not ok and you are not to kill under any circumstances. You die defending your country, but that means you die in sin and go to hell."
Yes, that would send you to hell if you killed while defending your country and you then died without being forgiven.

 

[johnnys4life]

I think probably one of the worst things you can do is knowingly sin thinking, "oh, God will forgive me". I hope I'm not the only one who's done this. That is preeeetty bad.

I used to think that someone who didn't know any better was not sinning AT ALL, but in many cases God puts something - like hesitation, uneasiness, into your heart. I know when I was 4 I felt that.