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What is a religious extremist?

“It’s idolatry, putting trust in weapons. And weapons are made like gods. … Weapons are always false gods because they make money. It’s profiteering.”

---Sister Megan Rice---

The Prophets of Oakridge

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/wp-style/2013/09/13/the-prophets-of-oak-ridge/?tid=ptv_rellink

Yeah... sell your "everyone has a god" nonsense somewhere else. I don't need any.

Why are you putting words in my mouth.

Just because I'm an atheist doesn't mean that selling you "everybody needs a god".

I mean, that's just silly.

I don't need a God.

Is it just because you don't want to reply to the actual content of my post, but rather to your own internal stereotypes of atheists, instead?
 
I would say extremist and fundamentalist are synonyms in this context.

I wouldn’t. But you already know that I disagree with your dichotomy.

On the other hand, it seems that at least me and @9-10ths_Penguin agree with you in borrowing from the mathematical usage of “extrema” and not implying negativity or violence.

In my case it’s just how I’ve used it all my life. I’ve had cellmates at various times who have been regularly called religious extremists, so it seems silly to change my terminology, now.

If the expression is good enough to use when we toss folks in prison, why isn’t it good for the internet?

That’s my philosophy.

I see no reason to privilege internet usage over real world usage after the fact.

But we are on the internet, so not everybody is going to agree with me.

Oh, well.
 
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Fundamentalism IS extreme.

It can be.

But it can also be the norm.

La culture mayor.

In which case the extremists would be the non-fundamentalists.

Look at the Spanish Inquisition, for example. The extremists were Catholic, and the Idolators of la culture mayor were large and in charge.

Hell, the Palace of the Inquisition is open for tourists these days. Note how Black women used magic to stay alive.

Some fundamentalist cultures don’t like magic. They claim that it is useless and evil.

The Witch Hunt in Cartagena- History of Cartagena​


LA TIERRA PROMETIDA, CARLOS VIVES, CARTAGENA DE INDIAS, COLOMBIA, TURISMO​

 
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Worldwide? No, that never happens, regardless of religion. Do you mean in a specific location? Yes, that can sometimes be the case.

Worldwide?

Wow!

Let’s take the default location for Catholicism.

The center of the world, the Axis Mundi, where heaven meets earth and hell.

Remember, we’re talking about theism, here.

And Plate Tectonics.

Historians go back to Pangia.
 
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stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
I wouldn’t. But you already know that I disagree with your dichotomy.

On the other hand, it seems that at least me and @9-10ths_Penguin agree with you in borrowing from the mathematical usage of “extrema” and not implying negativity or violence.

Yes. The question of whether the tenets of a given religion encompass "negativity or violence" is separate. If they do, then those who kill for that religion fall into category one. I believe my dichotomy is holding up so far.


In my case it’s just how I’ve used it all my life. I’ve had cellmates

May I ask if you were engaged violence? Your story is yours, so I won't bother you with that question again.

at various times who have been regularly called religious extremists, so it seems silly to change my terminology, now.

Did they strictly follow a religion, or did they put their own spin on it?
 
Yes. The question of whether the tenets of a given religion encompass "negativity or violence" is separate. If they do, then those who kill for that religion fall into category one. I believe my dichotomy is holding up so far.




May I ask if you were engaged violence? Your story is yours, so I won't bother you with that question again.



Did they strictly follow a religion, or did they put their own spin on it?

Everybody puts their own spin on things.

Catholics often talk about fulfilling prophesies like Isaiah 2:4.

I can find some theological details, if you’d like.

I think that some folks may have been interrogated afterwards, and posted the video of their interrogations on YouTube.

That might give some insight on the theology in practice.

Here’s a movie about an action, in which the defendants play themselves (so the acting isn’t great), with Martin Sheen as the judge.

Much of the script comes from courtroom transcripts, and the movie is interspersed with documentary footage.

And of course, Charlie King wrote a song about it.

IN THE KING OF PRUSSIA: THE TRIAL OF THE PLOWSHARES 8​

IN THE KING OF PRUSSIA: THE TRIAL OF THE PLOWSHARES 8 takes us back to 1982 with Emile de Antonio's portrayal of the Plowshares 8 civic disobedience at General Electric's nuclear weapons plant in King of Prussia, Pennsylvania. The group included Molly Rush, co-founder of the Merton Center. Posting of this cliip celebrates the April 13 visit of Martin Sheen, who plays the judge in the movie, to Pittsburgh, Pa and the Thomas Merton Center. YOU CAN'T HUG A CHILD WITH NUCLEAR ARMS!!!


The Hammer Has to Fall​

 
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@stevecanuck

The struggle against Idolatry seems to be a big concern. The Lordship of Christ has been replaced with the Lordship of the Bomb.



The Idolatry of Nuclearism

After the United states dropped an atomic bomb on Hiroshima, Dorothy Day noted that "the Lordship of Christ has been replaced by the Lordship of the bomb.". -a sentiment that was underscored by Openheimer's decision to name the first test "The Trinity". According to Plowshares activists, Americans have become thoroughly enamored with the power of these weapons. This has led to a state of "nuclearism" in which the US population has become psychologically and politically dependent on it's nuclear capacity. The Catholic Left believes that this mentality has transformed nuclear weapons into gods of metal, because people have placed their ultimate faith on the power of these missiles, violating God's commandments, Thou shall have no other gods before me" and "Do not bow down to any idol and worship it". as Author Laffin notes, To pledge our ultimate allegiance to the state and top place our security in idols of death betrays our faith in God and constitutes ultimate blasphemy.

Religion and War Resistance in the Plowshares Movement
by Sharon Erickson Nepstad

 
@stevecanuck

They are considered as extreme because they are fighting for Freedom of Religion within the Empire.



Fighting the Lamb's War: Skirmishes with the American Empire.

The Autobiography of Phillip Berrigan, with Fred A. Wilcox


(page 193 in the 1996 edition.)

13916180660_624a6c0ce3_o.jpg


We had a fine time between Christmas and the trial in May. Liz is home again, and though we know she will be leaving us soon, each day is a celebration. Not with streamers and baloons, but through reflection and preparation for the trial. Liz will undoubtedly be sentenced to prison. She acted out of love for her children, and for the children of the world. The National Security State considers her a dangerous person.

The Griffiths Plowshares defendants appeared before Judge Howard Munson, federal court judge, Northern District of New York. On bahalf of the seven defendants, Liz presented an arguement, "On Freedom of Religion and Contempory Idolatry." She argued that nuclear weapons constitute a religion, and that this violates certain freedoms guarenteed by the US Constitution. This, in part, is what she said to Judge Munson and the jury:

We are dealing with serious constitutional issues—namely, the issue of a national religion having been established in our country in violation of the First Amendment. The religion of national sovereignty or nuclearism is alive and flourishing, and its existence, its pre-eminence, its rituals, gods, priests, and high priests make serious encroachments on all of us. In fact—and this is the second part of our argument—violating our freedom of religion. This state religion not only compels acts that are prohibited by the laws of God but the state religion itself prohibits the free exercise of religion. The state religion compels a quality of loyalty focused on our acceptance of the existence of nuclear weapons as a necessity. Weapons we are expected to pay for, adulate, thank God for, become sacred objects of worship. And such worship is prohibited by the laws of God.​

Nuclearism is the ultimate fundamentalism of our time. Above all, this is the idolatry against which we stand and because of which we stand in this court. And the modern state is the child of the nuclearist religion. In the years since 1945, the modern state has moved steadily in more and more authoritarian directions. The process was subtle. Leaders who insisted that the major stake in international conflict was the fate of democracy were the very ones who steadily eroded democratic content in the name of ‘National Security.’ Legally, we have witnessed a constitutional antipathy to standing armies give way to an expanding, permanent military establishment with the Pentagon as the cathedral of the nuclearist religion. We have seen the Executive Branch claim privileges to keep national security information secret without any correction from the judiciary. Judge Munson, this nuclear, national-security state is a new, as yet largely unanalyzed phenomenon in the long history of political forms and of civil religions.​

Being constantly ready to commit the nation and the planet to a war of annihilation in a matter of minutes created a variety of structural necessities that contradict the spirit and substance of democratic government: secrecy, lack of accountability, permanent emergency, concentration of authority, peacetime militarism, plus an extensive apparatus of state intelligence and police.​

Quoting Richard Falk and Robert Lifton, "Indefensible Weapons: The Political and Psychological Case Against Nuclearism", Liz informed the court that:

No king ever concentrated in his being such absolute authority over human destiny. ‘The claim by fallible human beings to inflict total devastation for the sake of the national interests of any particular state is an acute variety of idolatry.​

snip---------------

“And, Judge Munson,” Liz continued, “this has all been done ‘legally,’ and it amounts to a congressionally established religion. ‘Congress will make no law with respect to the establishment of religion. . . .‘ Yet Congress has passed laws approving and funding the Manhattan Project, the continued arms race including the first strike arsenal of cruise, MX, Trident; the new scenario for winning a nuclear war. It requires that our taxes fmance these projects. The bomb and nuclearism have been protected too by laws concerning national security, restrictions on free speech by government employees, loyalty and secrecy oaths required for security clearances. And now the laws of sabotage, laws that protect government property from destruction, and the conspiracy laws are used to punish and prosecute those who, from a perspective of conscience and Christian witness, would speak the truth, would resist the evil of nuclearism and the idolatry of nuclear violence. To so use these laws is to prohibit the free exercise of religion and violates the constitutional guarantee of this freedom.”
 
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@stevecanuck

Just for reference, here's the definition of Nuclearism, for folks not familiar with the Idolatry of this fundamentalist religion.


nuclearism​

noun

nuclear·ism

plural-s
: dependence on or faith in nuclear weapons as the means for maintaining national security
 
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