What is an authentic Christian?

[Exaltist Ethan]

Because i know people, how do you find it utterly ridiculous?

A denomination doesn't get started on a whim. I can't just invent a new way of thinking of Christianity and create a church from that. There is careful planning that goes into that kind of thing. The biggest and most established denominations are hundreds of years old. And when I look for NRMs on Wikipedia many of them aren't even Christian. If a new Christian religion is being formed every day, there would be evidence of such. Your article already established that there are 200-300 Christian sects in the US. Since the US is mostly Christians and many of these denominations go overseas its really not a stretch to think there are around 700-800 total world wide. I still have really no idea where you get a figure like 50,000 from. Yes, a church probably does get built every ten hours, but to say that entire denominations do too sounds ridiculous to me.

 

[F1fan]

Do you mean Martin Luther? Martin Luther King was a civil rights activist.



Because Jesus also spoke hate.

Luke 19:27: But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.

Luke 14:26: If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.

Matthew 10:37: Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

People like to think Jesus was all about being loving and kind. But he said **** like this too. And people, they live by that.

That's the absurdity of the Bible. It is a religious buffet of ideas that the Christian can pick and choose what they want, and leave the rest. Good people can find goodness in the texts and that will inspire their faith. Bad, mean people cab find evil in the Bible and that will inspire their faith. The good and bad Christians are all saved by the sacrifice of Jesus, and what is the consistency of that? It's a religion of anything goes. It includes good, moral people and also evil people willing to enslave others and exterminate them. It's all justified in the Bible. No coherent moral guidelines whatsoever can be found.

 

[F1fan]

It seems to me that "authenticity" isn't really much of a concern for most who call themselves Christians. I could, obviously, be wrong, but so far, I've not found a single example of any Christian, or any Muslim, or any Jew who has not behaved in ways that are antithetical to their stated beliefs.

In fact, the only philosophy that I've come across (I may be wrong, I'm not well-read enough to call myself exhaustive) that is concerned with authenticity is Existentialism -- a philosophy that has been at least somewhat attractive to me in the past.

To me, being "authentic" seems to imply being faithful to the things you espouse, and claim to expect of others. If I were a Christian who claimed to love Jesus Christ who commanded "love your enemy," and I could not do that, why then I would not be authentic.

As a human, authenticity is hard -- but I think it can be done. It just can't be done (in my view) by pretending to know what you cannot now. That will never be possible.

I used to tell people that "I'm not a Chridtisn, but I live like one" and that was to illustrate that following Jesus was not about dogma and belief, but a set of values that guided right and moral action. Humanism, essentially.

The focus on salvation always struck me as odd, a sort of selfish entitlement that put he Christian on a pedestal over all others. It seems odd that believers thank Jesus for his sacrifice but few feel an obligation to ay this forward and helping others as a basic obligation of decency and love.

 

[PruePhillip]

On another debate a member who is a Christian dismissed some Christians, namely those Baptists of the Confederate South and Lutherans and Catholics of Nazi Germany, as "Christians in name only". That's interesting.

This implies and suggests that there are fake Christians, and thus by contrast, authentic Christians. So it got me to wondering if this is a common attitude among Christians, and if so, what is the profile of an "authentic Christian" versus "in name only".

So, do you have this attitude and belief?

If so, what makes an authentic Christian?

Does this smack of judgment?

An authentic Christian is one who has faith in Jesus and lives by the standards set in Jesus.
Many adopt variations of this, professing to the standard but not keeping it.

 

[F1fan]

Making it clearer does not eliminate the problem. Just in case you were wondering I am in no way trying to sell Christianity to you, but you're kind of putting me on the defensive by making me the spokesperson.

Well I would say you are the spokesperson for yourself AS a Christian. You decided to be a Christian for a reason, yes? You can speak to those reasons and motivations, and I'd be curious to hear about it.

For myself I find nothing attractive about any of the various claims and teachings of Christian sects. The base concepts are absurd if interpreted literally. In my experience being a non-theist has allowed me more freedom to ponder my true moral sense.

 

[F1fan]

An authentic Christian is one who has faith in Jesus and lives by the standards set in Jesus.

OK, what does it mean to have faith in Jesus? What does that accomplish?

And list some of the Jesus standards that you yourself follow.

Many adopt variations of this, professing to the standard but not keeping it.

OK. Give examples.

 

[blü 2]

The bible says to follow those elected by Jesus, that is his descendants, there is no mention to follow anyone else or let alone your own opinion.

Where exactly does the bible say that?

Are you sure a virgin can't have conception?

If humans were capable of parthenogenesis, the result would necessarily be female. Hence my reference to God's Y-chromosome.

 

[DNB]

On another debate a member who is a Christian dismissed some Christians, namely those Baptists of the Confederate South and Lutherans and Catholics of Nazi Germany, as "Christians in name only". That's interesting.

This implies and suggests that there are fake Christians, and thus by contrast, authentic Christians. So it got me to wondering if this is a common attitude among Christians, and if so, what is the profile of an "authentic Christian" versus "in name only".

So, do you have this attitude and belief?

If so, what makes an authentic Christian?

Does this smack of judgment?

Obviously!? There are fakes, charlatans, wannabes, players, power trippers, quacks, etc... in every vocation and field. How many politicians, lawyers, judges, cops have defamed the profession with misguided and nefarious intentions? What do you think the the expression 'wolves in sheep's clothing' means?
Obviously not every person who claims to be a Christian is sincere, devout nor appropriately instructed.
How is it being judgmental to call someone out on their exploitive and pretentious attitude?

 

[F1fan]

Obviously!? There are fakes, charlatans, wannabes, players, power trippers, quacks, etc... in every vocation and field. How many politicians, lawyers, judges, cops have defamed the profession with misguided and nefarious intentions?

If my questions were about professions and business your question would be relevant. It's odd you avoided the topic, and that is what is an authentic Christian. Since you are a Christian is find it suspicious that you avoided Christianity and religion all together. It smacks of trying to distract from religion. And that would be motivated by fear and something to hide.

What do you think the the expression 'wolves in sheep's clothing' means?

It means people willing to exploit others, and that would include the average believer what was taught to be a wolf by other wolves, but lied to about it.

Obviously not every person who claims to be a Christian is sincere, devout nor appropriately instructed.

Tell us about you and your experience. Are you one of these people? If a person is being instructed they would be naive, so how would the naive know if they were being properly instructed, or duped?

The duped would feel shame in being duped, so would carry on the illusion of being an authentic Christian, yes?

How is it being judgmental to call someone out on their exploitive and pretentious attitude?

That would only apply to authentic Christians who are ethical, honest, not fooled, balanced, wise, well educated, who care about others with compassion and empathy. We can recognize those with character, and separate them from the arrogant and foolish Christian.

Which do you think you are?

 

[PruePhillip]

OK, what does it mean to have faith in Jesus? What does that accomplish?

And list some of the Jesus standards that you yourself follow.


OK. Give examples.

When those men went out preaching the Gospel in Acts their 'faith' wasn't that Jesus existed, or that He was the Son of God but that He would care for them when they had left all to follow Him. They took no salary, no name, no titles - just a simple humility, love and confidence that God would take care of their daily needs. That's faith, particularly when you have people like Matthew who were quite well off to start with.
A typical standard of Christ is
forgiveness
love
compassion
selflessness
humility

So when you see rich evangelists lording over others you are not seeing the example of Christ.

 

[F1fan]

When those men went out preaching the Gospel in Acts their 'faith' wasn't that Jesus existed, or that He was the Son of God but that He would care for them when they had left all to follow Him. They took no salary, no name, no titles - just a simple humility, love and confidence that God would take care of their daily needs. That's faith, particularly when you have people like Matthew who were quite well off to start with.

OK, so is this how you live your life? You go out preaching and take no salary? If not then why are you bringing up this example when I asked about your faith in Jesus?

And these guys went out any told people if they have faith in Jesus that their *** would be saved from Purgatory? What about all the things jesus taught about being a decent human being to others?

A typical standard of Christ is
forgiveness
love
compassion
selflessness
humility

That's an ambitious list. How well are you doing with it?

So when you see rich evangelists lording over others you are not seeing the example of Christ.

You're a Christian, so whether you like it or not they are part of your tribe. So what happened? What is wrong with the message that it gets corrupted by these people, and others are duped?

 

[Aštra’el]

The way I see it… an authentic Christian is simply someone committed to a Christian religion whose worship of God is genuine and their loyalty to God is sincere. It doesn’t matter to me what denomination they are, or if they are the peaceful unconditionally loving kind, or the ones who wage war and slaughter their enemies in the name of God.

I have similar standards for people of other religions, whether they embrace an existing religious culture and ideology, or are among those who create their own. Commit to it, without shame and without regret. Be loyal to your God(s).

 

[ChristineM]

A denomination doesn't get started on a whim. I can't just invent a new way of thinking of Christianity and create a church from that. There is careful planning that goes into that kind of thing. The biggest and most established denominations are hundreds of years old. And when I look for NRMs on Wikipedia many of them aren't even Christian. If a new Christian religion is being formed every day, there would be evidence of such. Your article already established that there are 200-300 Christian sects in the US. Since the US is mostly Christians and many of these denominations go overseas its really not a stretch to think there are around 700-800 total world wide. I still have really no idea where you get a figure like 50,000 from. Yes, a church probably does get built every ten hours, but to say that entire denominations do too sounds ridiculous to me.

As i said, the US is irrelevant.

A denomination can consist of just a few people or even one if their belief/interpretation of the bible differs.

You can object all you want it makes no difference to the reality which doesn't need your approval

 

[PureX]

Dead at 27. Duh!!!

If it is this heady then no wonder many less intelligent folks are way off the mark.

Basically you seem to be saying there is no definitive truth and it is whatever a believer wants it to be. How do you explain all the folks who have a very rigid ideology, often that targets others as an element of their dogma?

I explain them by saying that you are seeing what you want to see, just like everyone else is. You are deliberately demanding a super-simple, one-size-fits-all answer for a very complex and individually subjective question. Because you want the lack of that answer to serve your bias against religion.

The truth about anything becomes more and more varied and individually subjective the more detailed you want it to be. The answer to the question asked is very simple until we want more detail. A Christian is someone that adheres to the ideology represented by Christ. That is the simple one-size-fits-all answer. But the more detailed you want that answer to be, the more personal that ideology becomes. Of course. And that's true of any ideology. Even the ideology of the "rock star".

 

[1213]

...
If so, what makes an authentic Christian?
...

Bible tells a Christian is a disciple of Jesus. And a disciple of Jesus is a person who remains in the word of Jesus.

in Antioch that the disciples were first called Christians.
Acts 11:26

Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, "If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
John 8:31-32

That is how you can know who is truly a Christian.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Well I would say you are the spokesperson for yourself AS a Christian. You decided to be a Christian for a reason, yes? You can speak to those reasons and motivations, and I'd be curious to hear about it.

For myself I find nothing attractive about any of the various claims and teachings of Christian sects. The base concepts are absurd if interpreted literally. In my experience being a non-theist has allowed me more freedom to ponder my true moral sense.

I grew up Charismatic pentecostal.

Naturally I don't expect you to be attracted to claims and teachings. They are intentionally foolish. A proper conversion begins when a person is drawn to Christ not by reason but in spite of the foolish preaching. This process is inhibited when individuals try to argue people in claiming they have forceful and rational arguments. They don't. The barriers between people aren't rational. They are irrational. Why would the barrier to religion be rational? Nobody ever needed an ontological argument for God. Its a toy, a plaything. So is a rational argument to join Christ. If it is for you should feel drawn and desire to join, and that is it.

 

[Redemptionsong]

On another debate a member who is a Christian dismissed some Christians, namely those Baptists of the Confederate South and Lutherans and Catholics of Nazi Germany, as "Christians in name only". That's interesting.

This implies and suggests that there are fake Christians, and thus by contrast, authentic Christians. So it got me to wondering if this is a common attitude among Christians, and if so, what is the profile of an "authentic Christian" versus "in name only".

So, do you have this attitude and belief?

If so, what makes an authentic Christian?

Does this smack of judgment?

All disciples of Christ must be 'sealed' with the Holy Spirit. This is the unifying factor throughout the body of Christ.

 

[paradox]

Where exactly does the bible say that?

ex. Acts 1:15-23 shows that only apostles are able to nominate new apostles and apostles were chosen by Jesus to proclaim the gospel.

There are no exception to this anywhere.

 

[blü 2]

ex. Acts 1:15-23 shows that only apostles are able to nominate new apostles and apostles were chosen by Jesus to proclaim the gospel.

There are no exception to this anywhere.

Ah, the laying on of hands tradition.

Call me paranoid, but I'm always suspicious of administrative arrangements designed to keep some in and some out. (I'm more of a meritocrat.)

How do the Mormons get around that problem?

 

[paradox]

How do the Mormons get around that problem?

They have nothing to do with Jesus or Christianity obviously, neither did Jesus nor his descendants nominate them or teach anything like them.

Call me paranoid, but I'm always suspicious of administrative arrangements that keep some in and some out.

An analogy, If you dress up like cop and claim to be cop are you a cop?, do you really represent the law or are you a criminal?