What is at the core of the science/religion conflict?

[Skwim]

Science and religion have always found themselves in conflict with each other. A state of discord or at least perception that still exists today.

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So why such conflict, and where does the fault lie?


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[Princeps Eugenius]

Modern science tends to presuppose a naturalistic worldview. Evolution is strictly to be thaugt as a "random" process without guidance. This assumes that it is a process governed by nature and not a deity. Any deity is ruled out of the picture altogether and only nature is the cause of evolution. There are many other such conflicts but evolution gives a perfect example.

 

[Riverwolf]

I actually suspect that it's a modern conflict. Pre-modern European Christianity was the driving force in the North's post-Roman technological and methodology development, and golden-age Islam directly contributed at least half, if not more, to modern mathematics, astronomy, etc.

I suspect the modern conflict, at least in the US, is related to the fact that our Christiantiy, and our overculture in general, is heavily influenced by early puritan and fundamentalist Christianity. In that type of thinking, anything that has any amount of "bad" in it is wholly bad, so something can't possibly be good without being wholly good. Since media depicts the sciences as being frequent committers of hubris, well...

 

[lovemuffin]

short answer: different epistemologies

 

[Brickjectivity]

Its about Satan. People believe that Satan is trying to trick them using Scientists as his proxies.

 

[Altfish]

Modern science tends to presuppose a naturalistic worldview. Evolution is strictly to be thaugt as a "random" process without guidance. This assumes that it is a process governed by nature and not a deity. Any deity is ruled out of the picture altogether and only nature is the cause of evolution. There are many other such conflicts but evolution gives a perfect example.

The conflict also comes from the mistaken belief by people of faith that evolution is random, IT IS NOT RANDOM !!!

 

[Riverwolf]

It's also largely limited to one type of religion, hardly religion as a whole.

 

[David1967]

Its about Satan. People believe that Satan is trying to trick them using Scientists as his proxies.

I actually know someone that thinks this way. She doesn't believe that dinosaurs ever existed and that satan planted the bones to fool Christians.

 

[Princeps Eugenius]

The conflict also comes from the mistaken belief by people of faith that evolution is random, IT IS NOT RANDOM !!!

Its as random as you knowing that you will die in the future.

 

[Skwim]

Modern science tends to presuppose a naturalistic worldview. Evolution is strictly to be thaugt as a "random" process without guidance. This assumes that it is a process governed by nature and not a deity. Any deity is ruled out of the picture altogether and only nature is the cause of evolution. There are many other such conflicts but evolution gives a perfect example.

But deities are also not considered to have a hand in on-going planetary formation, plate tectonics, photosynthesis, magnetism, hurricanes, the atomic construction of matter, and carbuncles, so why pick on evolution as necessarily needing guidance? Is there anything in the assumption that evolution is governed by a deity that would add to its validity?

 

[McBell]

Modern science tends to presuppose a naturalistic worldview. Evolution is strictly to be thaugt as a "random" process without guidance. This assumes that it is a process governed by nature and not a deity. Any deity is ruled out of the picture altogether and only nature is the cause of evolution. There are many other such conflicts but evolution gives a perfect example.

How is that a conflict?
Showing that god is not needed does not prove anything other than god is not needed.

Seems to me that all the "conflicts" are merely people wanting their favored "side" to be right.
Or at least "more right" than the other side.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I actually know someone that thinks this way. She doesn't believe that dinosaurs ever existed and that satan planted the bones to fool Christians.

That is because that is the heart of the matter. I am not joking, nor did I intend any sense of irony. This entire thing about denying creationism is today (maybe not 100 years ago but today) all about the belief that Satan has conspired to fool people using Evolution. This is what the 'Creation scientists' say when they make the circuit visiting churches and giving short demonstrations. They insist that Evolution undermines the Bible, faith, goodness and causes people to do evil things.

That being said, there are some people who do not believe in Satan but still believe in creationism. Its just that they are such a very tiny percentage that I don't think they even measure on the scale. In general opposition to science is opposition that sees scientific results as part of an evil conspiracy.

 

[Altfish]

Its as random as you knowing that you will die in the future.

That's not random either, it is a certainty.

 

[David1967]

That is because that is the heart of the matter. I am not joking, nor did I intend any sense of irony. This entire thing about denying creationism is today (maybe not 100 years ago but today) all about the belief that Satan has conspired to fool people using Evolution. This is what the 'Creation scientists' say when they make the circuit visiting churches and giving short demonstrations. They insist that Evolution undermines the Bible, faith, goodness and causes people to do evil things.

That being said, there are some people who do not believe in Satan but still believe in creationism. Its just that they are such a very tiny percentage that I don't think they even measure on the scale. In general opposition to science is opposition that sees scientific results as part of an evil conspiracy.

I agree with you. My hobby is invertebrate Paleontology. I collect and prepare Trilobites. Fact is you don't find dinosaur bones in Devonian layers, and you don't find Trilobites in Cretaceous layers. I have tried explaining and even demonstrating this to people to no avail. They have somehow come to the conclusion that the Bible is not only a book on spirituality but on geology as well. And they wont budge.

 

[Ouroboros]

Science and religion have always found themselves in conflict with each other.

Actually, I'm not sure if it has always been that way. Science have existed to some degree in many different societies, cultures, and religions. I believe that both religion and science ultimately have the same aim, to understand our world and ourselves in it. They just go about it in different ways.

A state of discord or at least perception that still exists today.
So why such conflict, and where does the fault lie?
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Perhaps fear. Fear of being wrong. Fear of losing footing of self-identity. Fear of being tossed into a whirlwind of ideas and thoughts that are foreign to one's established ideas and thoughts.

 

[Skwim]

Actually, I'm not sure if it has always been that way. Science have existed to some degree in many different societies, cultures, and religions. I believe that both religion and science ultimately have the same aim, to understand our world and ourselves in it. They just go about it in different ways.

Perhaps the earliest known conflict between science and religion occurred in ancient Babylon in what is present-day Iraq. The priests had taught that lunar eclipses were caused by the restlessness of the gods. They were considered evil omens that were directed against -- and threatened the lives of -- their kings. Then, local astronomers discovered the 18 year and 11.3 day (223 synodic month) interval between lunar eclipses. This suggested that the eclipses had natural cause. The discovery did not affect the superstitious beliefs of the priests; they still regarded eclipses as a time of great danger to their kings. However, armed with an accurate prediction of the next eclipse, they were able to substitute a temporary king during the interval around the eclipse, thus giving protection to the real king. The substitute was killed afterwards, so that omen was always fulfilled.
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[paarsurrey]

What is at the core of the science/religion conflict?

There is no real conflict between science and religion. It is just a wrong understanding of both.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Modern science tends to presuppose a naturalistic worldview. Evolution is strictly to be thaugt as a "random" process without guidance. This assumes that it is a process governed by nature and not a deity. Any deity is ruled out of the picture altogether and only nature is the cause of evolution. There are many other such conflicts but evolution gives a perfect example.

It is just wrong understanding of one of nature, the truthful religion is not against evolution as the word says.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

The conflict also comes from the mistaken belief by people of faith that evolution is random, IT IS NOT RANDOM !!!

A good point.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

How is that a conflict?
Showing that god is not needed does not prove anything other than god is not needed.
Seems to me that all the "conflicts" are merely people wanting their favored "side" to be right.
Or at least "more right" than the other side.

I agree with you.
Just a wrong understanding of the phenomenon.
It is just like saying a glass of water with water to its half level. One could say that the glass is half full of water as could one say that the glass is half empty. It is a misconception.
Regards