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What is 'coveting' and is it a crime or a sin?

Jonathan Hoffman

Active Member
What is 'coveting', and is it a crime or a sin?

Is it a sin or a crime to admire your neighbor's sports car and want a sports car for yourself? Or to admire your neighbor's wife and want a similar gal for yourself?

Should you be arrested for admiring the assets of your neighbor?

I don't think so.

Unless. . . . you make specific plans to unlawfully defraud your neighbor of his assets or conspire with your other neighbor to plan to do so.

What do you think? Should we have Thought Police to prosecute us for our thoughts, or should police only prosecute us for our actions. Wouldn't that be tyranny? What would God think about this? Do you think he is a tyrannical Policeman?
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
First of all legality shouldnt get into ALL aspects pf immorality.

As much as I despise adultery, I dont think it should be made a legal hazard.

Thoughts are actions. Repressing them wont work, but it is wise to know them and redirect them, grow the ones you like and starve the ones you dislike, because thoughts and emotions make other actions.
 

Jonathan Hoffman

Active Member
First of all legality shouldnt get into ALL aspects pf immorality.

As much as I despise adultery, I dont think it should be made a legal hazard.

Thoughts are actions. Repressing them wont work, but it is wise to know them and redirect them, grow the ones you like and starve the ones you dislike, because thoughts and emotions make other actions.

Thoughts are internal processes whereas as actions are external acts.

Most people can distinguish between the two.
 

Levite

Higher and Higher
The Rabbis of the Talmud, who wish to establish measurable minimums and definitions for the laws, are very concerned with lo tachmod.... ("Do not covet..."). They understand that it is not only problematic but simply impossible to try and regulate people's thoughts; therefore, they define tachmod ("covet") as not merely admiring ("Wow, his wife is hot!"), not merely even envying in general ("I sure hope I'll find a woman that hot and marry her!"), but actively and specifically desiring with intent to possess ("His wife is so hot! How can I get her to sleep with me...?" or "How could I get him out of the way so that I could marry his wife myself?").

The analogy in American law would be the difference between, say, murder, and conspiracy to commit murder, which is a crime even if the murder never successfully takes place.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
Thoughts are internal processes whereas as actions are external acts.

Most people can distinguish between the two.

action
Pronunciation: /ˈakʃ(ə)n/
Translate action | into French | into German | into Italian | into Spanish
Definition of action
noun
1 [mass noun] the fact or process of doing something, typically to achieve an aim:

A thought is a form of action.

Thinking is a verb.
 

idea

Question Everything
I taught a children's class on this, I told the kids if they felt themselves being jealous of someone, if it was something good they were coveting (I wish I was as smart/talented/good as they are) that they needed to work towards the desired item - use the other person as a teacher, not someone to be competitive of. You don't have to feel bad about not having something, if you have hope of getting it legitamately for yourself. ... now if it somehting bad that you are coveting, that is another story.
 

Jonathan Hoffman

Active Member
action
Pronunciation: /ˈakʃ(ə)n/
Translate action | into French | into German | into Italian | into Spanish
Definition of action
noun
1 [mass noun] the fact or process of doing something, typically to achieve an aim:

A thought is a form of action.

Thinking is a verb.

But a thought is an internal process or action that is not perceptible by others and has no effect, whether good or evil, upon another person. Nobody suffers harm from another person's thoughts, as long as such thoughts remain internal and do not result in external actions or behavior.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
But a thought is an internal process or action that is not perceptible by others and has no effect, whether good or evil, upon another person. Nobody suffers harm from another person's thoughts, as long as such thoughts remain internal and do not result in external actions or behavior.

Of course it has an effect. It has an effect on you and you have an effect on others.

You believe it has no effect? Try this experiment:

Three days in a row start your day by 15 minutes of mentally telling yourself you hate person x that you know you will find during the day and see if others notice a change on the way you react to this person.

Now do the same backwards to someone else saying you love such person.

Maybe not three days, maybe more time will be needed, but trust me, your thoughts have a huge effect on your actions. Even if only unconsciously.

I am sure you are no stranger to acebo effect, so I would be surprised if you told me a healthy body interacts the same with the enviroment than a sick one.

It doesnt. Thoughts and emotions are the seeds of actions, and they will manifest in one way or another.
 

Jonathan Hoffman

Active Member
Of course it has an effect. It has an effect on you and you have an effect on others.

You believe it has no effect? Try this experiment:

Three days in a row start your day by 15 minutes of mentally telling yourself you hate person x that you know you will find during the day and see if others notice a change on the way you react to this person.

Now do the same backwards to someone else saying you love such person.

Maybe not three days, maybe more time will be needed, but trust me, your thoughts have a huge effect on your actions. Even if only unconsciously.

I am sure you are no stranger to acebo effect, so I would be surprised if you told me a healthy body interacts the same with the enviroment than a sick one.

It doesnt. Thoughts and emotions are the seeds of actions, and they will manifest in one way or another.

If you believe in such evil thoughts, you may act in reaction to them (if you lack self-control). But I can imagine how I could hypothetically commit the perfect crime, and this does not mean I would act on such a thought. Should the police arrest people for their private thoughts?? IMO, Xian doctrine attempts to make all people feel they are sinners, and this gives the humans in the Church power and authority over people. Instilling feelings of guilt has long been a theme of Xianity.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
If you believe in such evil thoughts, you may act in reaction to them (if you lack self-control). But I can imagine how I could hypothetically commit the perfect crime, and this does not mean I would act on such a thought. Should the police arrest people for their private thoughts?? IMO, Xian doctrine attempts to make all people feel they are sinners, and this gives the humans in the Church power and authority over people. Instilling feelings of guilt has long been a theme of Xianity.

Are you deliberately ignoring the parts of my post that dont fit your rethoric?

Police shouldnt arrest adulterers either.

I agree about guilt, I am talking about a practical sense though. Guilt will do as much bad if not more than the thoughts themselves. Just self control with no proper management of thoughts will lead to repression which will lead to being stressed and grumpy which will lead to being an @@@@@@ to people around you which leads to the dark side :yoda:
 

Jonathan Hoffman

Active Member
Are you deliberately ignoring the parts of my post that dont fit your rethoric?

Police shouldnt arrest adulterers either.

I agree about guilt, I am talking about a practical sense though. Guilt will do as much bad if not more than the thoughts themselves. Just self control with no proper management of thoughts will lead to repression which will lead to being stressed and grumpy which will lead to being an @@@@@@ to people around you which leads to the dark side :yoda:

What have I ignored in your previous post?

As to adulterers, I actually think there should be a criminal penalty for this immoral and anti-social behavior.

Self control is called suppression not repression. Repression in an unconscious process that silences unwanted thoughts before they surface into consciousness whereas suppression is a conscious control of unwanted or unproductive thoughts.

We all have negative or antisocial thoughts from time to time. Mature and moral people recognize these thoughts and emotions but do not dwell or act upon them.

In any case no crime is committed merely for thinking bad thoughts. Nobody is harmed by a thought unless you believe in voodoo.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
What have I ignored in your previous post?

As to adulterers, I actually think there should be a criminal penalty for this immoral and anti-social behavior.

Self control is called suppression not repression. Repression in an unconscious process that silences unwanted thoughts before they surface into consciousness whereas suppression is a conscious control of unwanted or unproductive thoughts.

We all have negative or antisocial thoughts from time to time. Mature and moral people recognize these thoughts and emotions but do not dwell or act upon them.

In any case no crime is committed merely for thinking bad thoughts. Nobody is harmed by a thought unless you believe in voodoo.

If yu think bad thoughts too often something is obviusly wrong, and continuous supression without some regulation or management will cause problems too.

If tou really want to hit our boss and ou feel that strongly, you WILL treat him differently. You know this.
 

Jonathan Hoffman

Active Member
If yu think bad thoughts too often something is obviusly wrong, and continuous supression without some regulation or management will cause problems too.

If tou really want to hit our boss and ou feel that strongly, you WILL treat him differently. You know this.

Wrong. If I really wanted to hit my boss, I would ventilate my feelings by discussing this with a friend or counselor and thereby discharge those negative emotions.

OR, I could find another job or start my own business (which is what I did many years ago).
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
Wrong. If I really wanted to hit my boss, I would ventilate my feelings by discussing this with a friend or counselor and thereby discharge those negative emotions.

OR, I could find another job or start my own business (which is what I did many years ago).

Wrong on what? Yu are detailing stress dealing behviour or a change of job because of an inability to be functnal without them.

Its normal and human.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
What is 'coveting', and is it a crime or a sin?

Is it a sin or a crime to admire your neighbor's sports car and want a sports car for yourself? Or to admire your neighbor's wife and want a similar gal for yourself?

Should you be arrested for admiring the assets of your neighbor?

I don't think so.

Unless. . . . you make specific plans to unlawfully defraud your neighbor of his assets or conspire with your other neighbor to plan to do so.

What do you think? Should we have Thought Police to prosecute us for our thoughts, or should police only prosecute us for our actions. Wouldn't that be tyranny? What would God think about this? Do you think he is a tyrannical Policeman?


The scriptures are fairly clear as to how God views coveting....he doesnt like it and he doesnt want us to do it. If 'covetousness' was as innocent as merely admiring something belonging to another, then why would God be against it? It would make no sense unless 'coveting' actually had deeper more serious connotations.
You have not clearly define what 'covet' means. To covet can be defined as “to long inordinately for something which belongs to another; as to covet a neighbor’s piece of property because of its fine view.”
It can also be applied to gambling. Gamblers covet money which does not belong to them and their gambling habit demonstrates a form of greed...they have an 'indordinate' desire for something belonging to someone else. Thats what coveting really is. Its greed for what does not belong to you.

Thats why Jesus warned his followers: “Guard against every sort of covetousness.”—Luke 12:15.
 

chinu

chinu
What is 'coveting', and is it a crime or a sin?
Anything which increases our desire to live in this world is Sin, and anything that increases our desire to refrain from this world is Sinless. Ofcourse, coveting is sin, its the root cause of crime but not crime. :)
 

4consideration

*
Premium Member
What is 'coveting', and is it a crime or a sin?

I view "coveting" as similar to the modern expression of "obsessing", not simply desiring to have something similar -- but rather that you think you cannot be OK without it and simply MUST HAVE that one.

A negative aspect of such behavior, for the person involved, is that it creates a tendency to overlook all of the other things in life that one does have -- and creates a narrow focus on something that does not belong to you.

IMO, respect for that which belongs to another includes an understanding/belief that that which really belongs to me and is appropriate for my life will come to me through the proper channels, in the proper time -- and hopefully with benefit to others, rather than harm to anyone. I do not view coveting as a crime, and rarely use the word sin -- but it could be called a "sin" since I think it derives from an error and creates a sense of personal fragmentation/isolation from the rest of the abundance of life.
Is it a sin or a crime to admire your neighbor's sports car and want a sports car for yourself? Or to admire your neighbor's wife and want a similar gal for yourself?

Should you be arrested for admiring the assets of your neighbor?

I don't think so.

Unless. . . . you make specific plans to unlawfully defraud your neighbor of his assets or conspire with your other neighbor to plan to do so.
I agree with you here. Although I use admiring and coveting as very different terms. I think they may be viewed as opposites.

For me, admiring what another has and opening up oneself to the possibility of having something similar is like a recognition of an abundance of good things available from God. IMO, coveting/obsession is based upon a focus on and belief in scarcity as a prevailing condition in your life, at least in that one area. Rather than being focused upon what things may be available to you in life, this kind of obsessive focus centers on a particular thing that seems to be missing -- on something you CAN'T have -- something that is not right for you, or that rightfully belongs to someone else.

What do you think? Should we have Thought Police to prosecute us for our thoughts, or should police only prosecute us for our actions. Wouldn't that be tyranny? What would God think about this? Do you think he is a tyrannical Policeman?

I don't know what God thinks. I don't think he is a tyrannical policeman.

Failure to understand the pitfalls of coveting and practicing it in life may create a painful experience. It is painful to obsess, and it may lead one toward destructive action, if taken too far.

To me, there is a definite correlation between thought and action. I think it is wise for a person to guard their own thoughts and not dwell upon those that lead in the direction of destructive/harmful behavior. However, I think a person's thoughts are nobody else's business. Behaving as thought police regarding internal thoughts are an overreaction that is likely to take a good idea of watching one's own thoughts, and taking it to an extreme that creates its own level of negativity -- harsh judgment against another, for that which caused no harm to anyone else.

I do not view it that just because someone has "bad" thoughts, that makes God mad. I think thoughts, even negative ones, can be a harmless playground for trying things out in the imagination WITHOUT the consequences of putting them in RL action. But, if one hangs out in a thought swamp for long enough, actions of a similar nature are more likely to arise.

I see coveting as a particular type and intensity of thought process -- that causes internal harm to the individual because it creates a disconnect from what the person actually has in life and creates an orientation point of lack -- what is missing -- what is denied. That one thing becomes all important. It fragments the person's experience of all of the abundance actually available in life. It can also lead to strife within the community, if it is the basis for action to get that thing -- at any cost.

When it comes to someone else practicing coveting, that's their business. I don't think the commandment is like: Thou shalt not allow thy neighbor to covet. It's an instruction to the individual not to do it.

I view refraining from coveting as a beneficial "commandment" because I see wisdom in understanding and applying it to oneself. As I see it, it works well in life. Additionally, IMO, a person can understand the underlying wisdom and benefit from it, with no belief in any form of God.
 
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