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What is creationism?
- Thread starter tjgillies
- Start date
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Yes of course it wasn't 7 literal days, could I ask what religion you belong to ?.
Deathbydefault
Apistevist Asexual Atheist
Creationism is defined as an idea that says the universe was created by some higher form of being.
It's not restricted to just Christianity, it applies to all believers in deities of creation.
It is also a position that evidence does not exist in, and almost always goes against current scientific knowledge.
It's not restricted to just Christianity, it applies to all believers in deities of creation.
It is also a position that evidence does not exist in, and almost always goes against current scientific knowledge.
Skwim
Veteran Member
The "verses" comes in when creationists (predominantly Christian creationists) claim that life did not evolve as scientists contend, but that each species (sometimes reconfigured as genera or even families) was put on earth "as is" by god. It should be noted that the whole "versus" issue is a creationist construct. "Evolutionists" couldn't care less what creationists believe. The only time thy get their hackles up is when creationists try to slip their theology into public school classrooms as the truth or as a viable alternative to evolution.
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I find this rather telling heh
What is creationism?
In the western world, beliefs stemming from the Biblical Genesis story about the creation of the world. A pretty good work for its time but should not be taken too literally anymore. It is unfortunate in my opinion that Biblical fundamentalists want to hold onto the story as a literal truth.
In the western world, beliefs stemming from the Biblical Genesis story about the creation of the world. A pretty good work for its time but should not be taken too literally anymore. It is unfortunate in my opinion that Biblical fundamentalists want to hold onto the story as a literal truth.
AndromedaRXJ
Active Member
Creationism, the notion that the universe was created by some higher being, doesn't necessarily go against the Theory of Evolution. What goes against Evolution is Intelligent Design. The idea that all of the specific features of various life forms were intentionally designed as they are, rather than evolved that way over time.
As for general creationism, it's quite possible that a creator simply created the Universe with all the physical laws in place, and from there, the creator just let the Universe take it's course with no intervention on his/her part. Perhaps such a creator would know ahead of time that Natural Selection would take place automatically.
Still... it's just an idea in the end with no scientific basis. And if a creator like this did exist, I doubt he/she is omnipotent or omniscient. At best, I'd say it's aliens that have mastered higher dimensional physics and have figured out how to artificially create Big Bangs from some higher dimension. Purely scientific and non-mystical means, therefore, I wouldn't even call them deities.
As for general creationism, it's quite possible that a creator simply created the Universe with all the physical laws in place, and from there, the creator just let the Universe take it's course with no intervention on his/her part. Perhaps such a creator would know ahead of time that Natural Selection would take place automatically.
Still... it's just an idea in the end with no scientific basis. And if a creator like this did exist, I doubt he/she is omnipotent or omniscient. At best, I'd say it's aliens that have mastered higher dimensional physics and have figured out how to artificially create Big Bangs from some higher dimension. Purely scientific and non-mystical means, therefore, I wouldn't even call them deities.
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Intelligent design and creationism are the same thing. ID is just a repackaging of creationist literature and textbooks, done in the '80s to get around legal objections by Scientists and proponents of teaching evolution in schools. The Creationists just renamed creationism "Intelligent Design." in all their literature.
http://ncse.com/multimedia/proving-id-creationism
http://ncse.com/book/export/html/11774
http://ncse.com/multimedia/proving-id-creationism
http://ncse.com/book/export/html/11774
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Skwim
Veteran Member
As Valjean correctly points out, ID is just another label for creationism. Any other aspect of creationism, other than those that address the variety of life on earth, are irrelevant in the creationism v. evolution issue.
Possibly, but this isn't what creationists maintain. It's a good idea in discussions of creationism, in its sense of the creationism v. evolution issue, not to use the word with any other meaning.
AndromedaRXJ
Active Member
So what would be a good name for the type of "creationism" that I described and defined? It seems like the word "creationism" it self implies this more general definition while "Intelligent Design" implies the more specific belief that Christian Creationists propose. Though I do understand that the word "creationism" is loaded and carries a lot of connotation.
Skwim
Veteran Member
You're absolutely right. Under these circumstances "Intelligent Design" would seem to be a reasonable solution; however, because of "Intelligent Design's" disreputable history no one outside of the creationist camp likes to use it, and will no doubt substitute "creationism" whenever it's brought up. So consider "Intelligent Design" out of the question. This leaves us with "creationism." How it's problematic use is avoided is by avoiding it. Unless the word is used in reference to Christian creationism it simply isn't used. So, as to your statement "Creationism, the notion that the universe was created by some higher being," it would simply be dropped, or, if necessary, replaced with "creation." "Creation, the notion that the universe was created by some higher being." Rephrasing can often help in keeping the meaning clear.
Just keep in mind:
"Intelligent Design": Never use it (It's present day usage first appeared around 1983)
"Creationism," " creationist" : words in reference to the claim that god put all present life on earth pretty much as is. (Often other notions, such as god's creation of the universe, may be included)
"Creation": can be used with its common meanings however one wants
"Evolution": The process of change by which the present diversity of life arose from earlier and usually more primitive organisms,
"Creationism," " creationist" : words in reference to the claim that god put all present life on earth pretty much as is. (Often other notions, such as god's creation of the universe, may be included)
"Creation": can be used with its common meanings however one wants
"Evolution": The process of change by which the present diversity of life arose from earlier and usually more primitive organisms,
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I would say that creationism is the interpretation of nature as being created, or tweaked to reach a certain goal. I would collect all of intent/teleology, or the belief that there is one, under creationism.
So, under this definition, creationism covers also the idea that evolution is true, but has been started, or it is being tweaked , by God with a clear intent to reach a goal, e.g. Humans.
So, I basically agree with you. There is no versus. All theists must be, in a way or the other, creationists. Some are just a bit more scientifically correct than the others, by demoting what is no more tenable to metaphors, or parables
Ciao
- viole
Guy Threepwood
Mighty Pirate
The word is often used as if it represents a marginalized minority
Yet according to the most recent Gallup poll- only 19% in the US believe in Darwin style evolution, i.e. chance v design, that's the real 'versus' in the end is it not?
So I'd say the rest of us 81% are creationists of some kind. Evolutionists have various subcategories also, but are often lumped together as a 'consensus' even though they can't agree on any basics of the theory- other than it must exclude God
That would make you a "theistic evolutionist". One could argue that is a form of creationism, but it's rather far divorced from the most common form in the United States (i.e. the position that living things were created according to their "kinds" in the beginning and did not evolve from a common ancestor).
You know better than that. Plenty of people believe in both evolution and God.
Guy Threepwood
Mighty Pirate
Not evolution as evolutionists understand it, or Darwin, was the point
NewGuyOnTheBlock
Cult Survivor/Fundamentalist Pentecostal Apostate
"Young Earth Creationist" believes in the literal interpretation of Genesis 1 & 2, and hold to the belief that the universe is no older than 10,000 years.
"Old Earth Creationist" believes that the world was created by God; but do not hold to the literal interpretation of Genesis. They often overlap, in part or in whole, with "Intelligent Design" proponents.
"Intelligent Design" is an attempt at marriage between modern science (Cosmology, Geophysics, Astrophysics, Abiogenesis, Evolution) while maintaining belief that the universe and everything in it was created by the deity who used natural processes he/she put into place to guide creation.
"Old Earth Creationist" believes that the world was created by God; but do not hold to the literal interpretation of Genesis. They often overlap, in part or in whole, with "Intelligent Design" proponents.
"Intelligent Design" is an attempt at marriage between modern science (Cosmology, Geophysics, Astrophysics, Abiogenesis, Evolution) while maintaining belief that the universe and everything in it was created by the deity who used natural processes he/she put into place to guide creation.
Nearly always "Creationism", when it is presented as something worth pursuing or defending, means simply "denial of biological evolution". Sometimes it also includes the insistence of affirming that existence itself was an act of dvine decree.
It is possible and far saner to understanding "Creationism" as the simple belief that there is a Creator God, but there is not a lot of controversy to create from that, so the word rarely is used to mean that in practice.
It is possible and far saner to understanding "Creationism" as the simple belief that there is a Creator God, but there is not a lot of controversy to create from that, so the word rarely is used to mean that in practice.
AndromedaRXJ
Active Member
Plenty of proponents of Evolution may not believe in a god, but that's not from within the framework of the Theory of Evolution it self, nor does it predict that there is no god. The problem isn't the notion of a god existing, but that god created all clades of life as they are.
An evolutionist is any person who accepts evolution, and there are plenty of theistic evolutionists. So your point is still invalid.