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What is creationism?

AndromedaRXJ

Active Member
so .. 'creationism' is proved false by fossil records, is it?
No! It's all a load of twaddle ;)

Almighty God created the universe [ oh! I must be a 'creationist' ]
There is no evidence to prove that this is not AT LEAST a possibility..

As said many time in this thread, there being a creator of the universe doesn't go against evolution. But from what I've learned in this thread, that would be called Deism, not Creationism.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
so .. 'creationism' is proved false by fossil records, is it?
No! It's all a load of twaddle ;)
I didn't say that. I said the fossil record is strong evidence of evolution.

Almighty God created the universe [ oh! I must be a 'creationist' ]
No, it means you are a theist. The creationist movement is specifically an anti-evolution movement that eschews common ancestry in favour of the belief that life was created "as is" by an intelligence. They are not the same thing. You can be a theist without being a creationist.

There is no evidence to prove that this is not AT LEAST a possibility..
I advise you spend more time reading the posts you are responding to in future or you may embarrass yourself again.
 
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muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
No, it means yoy are a theist. The creationist movement is specifically an anti-evolution movement that eschews common ancestry in favour of the belief that life was created "as is" by an intelligence.

No .. you are mistaken. You refer to "young Earth creationists", also known as fundamentalists which Muslims are often called when referring to extremists :)

From wikipedia:
"Theistic evolution, also known as Evolutionary Creationism, is an attempt to reconcile religion with scientific findings on the age of the Earth and evolution. The term covers a range of views including Old Earth creationism"

Incidentally, the main conflict is a literal reading of Genisis in the Bible. As a Muslim, the Qur'an is more authoritive and informs mankind that "God is the Evolver from nought"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
What do you claim is false? That there are definite limits to inter species successful breeding? Or that such limits would stop claimed macro evolution from occurring?
Because of the nature of change, which all things appear to go through, the limits themselves gradually change. We know that this takes place because there simply is no other explanation of both the fossil record along with the genome testing results.

Genes change, and therefore those limitations change. Nothing is static, so the whole paradigm of unchanging "limits" doesn't make any sense genetically or logically. Your position is the total opposite of what the geneticists know and understand.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
No .. you are mistaken. You refer to "young Earth creationists", also known as fundamentalists which Muslims are often called when referring to extremists :)
No, YOU are mistaken. Young earth Creationism refers only a specific subset of creationists who believe in a literalistic view of Biblical creation, i.e the earth being around 6,000 years old from the time of Adam. Creationism in general within the evolution debate is specifically anti-evolution and holds that species were created separately, and that they don't share common ancestry.

From wikipedia:
"Theistic evolution, also known as Evolutionary Creationism, is an attempt to reconcile religion with scientific findings on the age of the Earth and evolution. The term covers a range of views including Old Earth creationism"
What does that have to do with anything I said? Theistic evolution is something else entirely.

Incidentally, the main conflict is a literal reading of Genisis in the Bible. As a Muslim, the Qur'an is more authoritive and informs mankind that "God is the Evolver from nought"
Doesn't change the fact that you misread my post and don't understand what creationism is.
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
..Creationism in general within the evolution debate is specifically anti-evolution and holds that species were created separately, and that they don't share common ancestry..
..you misread my post and don't understand what creationism is.
Forget it .. you can define creationism however you like.
Almighty God created the universe .. I don't care how He created it and leave other people to argue about that .. particular the 'know it alls' who believe that it WAS NOT created
:rolleyes:
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Forget it .. you can define creationism however you like.
Almighty God created the universe .. I don't care how He created it and leave other people to argue about that .. particular the 'know it alls' who believe that it WAS NOT created
:rolleyes:
Aside from the fact that I've never said anything contrary to any of this stuff; why, exactly, does asserting that the Universe was not created make someone a "know-it-all", but asserting that the Universe was created doesn't?
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
How do you know it wasn't Almighty Gods...? Were you there?

God could be considered as singular or plural. How do I know that Almighty God hasn't got 300 heads and 500 hands? Have I seen Him?
No, I can't see any form. The concept of God is unique. He created the universe and everything it contains, including mankind.
..so God is not a man, not a creature, not singular or plural, not male or female .. He is God :)
 

AndromedaRXJ

Active Member
God could be considered as singular or plural. How do I know that Almighty God hasn't got 300 heads and 500 hands? Have I seen Him?
No, I can't see any form. The concept of God is unique. He created the universe and everything it contains, including mankind.
..so God is not a man, not a creature, not singular or plural, not male or female .. He is God :)

Why say it's a "He" then? Why not call it a "She" from time to time? Like alternate between saying He and She.
 

Parsimony

Well-Known Member
The addition of god to the TOE is totally unnecessary and, thus, from a view with an eye to parsimoniousness ... about as welcome as excrement on a cake.
Necessary? No. However, believing that a god exists does not automatically mean that the person believes that said god is an active, necessary part of evolution. That's the difference. I have seen some people on here saying that a god is a necessary guiding force of evolution, but I do not hold that to be so. I'm currently convinced that evolution has enough internal control factors of its own to design organisms. A deistic god would seem pretty compatible with vanilla evolution to me, just to mention one.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
God could be considered as singular or plural. How do I know that Almighty God hasn't got 300 heads and 500 hands? Have I seen Him?
No, I can't see any form. The concept of God is unique. He created the universe and everything it contains, including mankind.
..so God is not a man, not a creature, not singular or plural, not male or female .. He is God :)
So, even if we assumed that you were somehow correct on this, how do you know the God created our universe?

What I am driving at is that we tend to take things so much for granted in this area without stopping and thinking about how could we possible know some of these things as being facts? It's one thing if someone says "I believe...", but it's quite another for someone to say "I know...".

The fact is that you don't actually know but you do believe, and it's important to keep these two concepts separate because one is not the same as the other.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
God could be considered as singular or plural. How do I know that Almighty God hasn't got 300 heads and 500 hands? Have I seen Him?
No, I can't see any form. The concept of God is unique. He created the universe and everything it contains, including mankind.
..so God is not a man, not a creature, not singular or plural, not male or female .. He is God :)

Maybe "IT is God" would be more appropriate.

Ciao

- viole
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
The fact is that you don't actually know but you do believe, and it's important to keep these two concepts separate because one is not the same as the other.

That's right .. same for most things really..
I respect the current scientific opinion, and am interested in finding out why and how it became to be. I don't always agree with everything I read and see, but I evaluate .. we all do really, don't we?
..so we believe something to be useful knowledge and reliable or questionable fact etc.

..anyhow .. The argument of what could be considered a fact mostly depends on what a person believes :)
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
That's right .. same for most things really..
I respect the current scientific opinion, and am interested in finding out why and how it became to be. I don't always agree with everything I read and see, but I evaluate .. we all do really, don't we?
..so we believe something to be useful knowledge and reliable or questionable fact etc.

..anyhow .. The argument of what could be considered a fact mostly depends on what a person believes :)
You were on solid ground until the last sentence, whereas you then blew it! ;)

What a person believes in regards to religion does not establish scientific axioms/theories/hypotheses.
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
What a person believes in regards to religion does not establish scientific axioms/theories/hypotheses.

No .. it establishes theological axioms/theories/hypotheses.
I don't know why people might think that only 'the scientific method' or science has all the answers to what is fact .. some people are so narrow-minded ;)
 

Sapiens

Polymathematician
So, what about people who claim to know that God did create the Universe? Are they "know-it-alls" too? Dawkins isn't nearly as certain in his position as many religious leaders or speakers are.
Yeah, and he is able to point to actual evidence to support his claims, something the religious never, ever do ... they think bible quotes count as evidence.
 
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