What is Evolution Article

[outhouse]

If you notice its micro evolution, by your accepted definition

 

[Bunyip]

None taken, I actually said I believed sub-family transition in my mind including humans from primates is much more plausible than transition between classes. Doesn't mean I believe the former though.

But you said 'cross family mutation' was where you drew the line - chimps and humans are the same sub family.

You do not believe that the felines are related, or the canines? I thought that you specifically said that you did.

Please forgive my confusion.

 

[Ijustwantpeace]

You do know failure to address known credible information is religious fanaticism?

No its not, it's failure to address credible information.

 

[outhouse]

Please give me a link to the website you got it from, and the dates of all the skulls. I am skeptical that they are ordered by date or even if they can be. Many of these so called proof diagrams are manipulated to make a point.

Smithsonian has information on skulls.

I can tell you A. is chimp and N. is Homo Sapiens

 

[outhouse]

No its not, it's failure to address credible information.

It is fanaticism to argue with the worlds collective credible professors, and what they claim as fact.

And you have not shown a single sentence I have posted lacks credibility, so far it is only you admitting you know little about a topic.

While admitting somewhat you are a theist and place more credibility in imagination and mythology and things that are invisible and factually do not change a single thing in any part of nature.

 

[Ijustwantpeace]

But you said 'cross family mutation' was where you drew the line - chimps and humans are the same sub family.

You do not believe that the felines are related, or the canines? I thought that you specifically said that you did.

Please forgive my confusion.

Yes I did, I do believe felines and canines are related, I'm just skeptical of the common ancestry of apes.

Remember I said I should have said I believe in aspects of Micro-Evolution

No problem, nothing wrong with getting to the bottom of something and asking probing questions.

Let me ask you a question. Do you ever doubt evolution as an all encompassing theory for origins when you sit and contemplate it logically? Just an honest question, no insinuation in it.

 

[Ijustwantpeace]

Smithsonian has information on skulls.

I can tell you A. is chimp and N. is Homo Sapiens

I can't rebut the picture without the information I asked for. Also, since we didn't evolve from chimps, what is the pictures insinuating, and how is that factual proof of evolution?

 

[outhouse]

This is the Smithsonian

Press Office - Process of Evolution - Statement of Scientific Understanding

The Process of Evolution
Statement of Scientific Understanding

All living beings have developed over time from ancestors through a series of changes. That life has evolved over long periods of time, with all forms of life related to one another, is a scientifically well-established fact

 

[outhouse]

I can't rebut the picture without the information I asked for. Also, since we didn't evolve from chimps, what is the pictures insinuating, and how is that factual proof of evolution?

Did I say it was factual proof? pay attention please.


It is evidence. Im sorry you don't know these different stages of human evolution we all do going back millions of years.


Again from B to N is our lineage our heritage with no assumptions.


If you dont have the knowledge to play or understand, so be it. But at that point its better to bow out then display ignorance refusing things you know nothing at all about.

 

[Parsimony]

I'm just skeptical of the common ancestry of apes.

I can make a good case for human-chimp common ancestry if you'd like to hear it.

Remember I said I should have said I believe in aspects of Micro-Evolution

Are there any particular aspects of micro-evolution that you have issue with?

No problem, nothing wrong with getting to the bottom of something and asking probing questions.

You are absolutely correct. This is how people learn.

Let me ask you a question. Do you ever doubt evolution as an all encompassing theory for origins when you sit and contemplate it logically? Just an honest question, no insinuation in it.

I know this wasn't addressed to me, but every now and then I do think about that issue. I know that some aspects of it can be wrong (and often are: phylogenetic trees get rearranged fairly regularly as new evidence pops up), but the backbone of evolutionary theory is pretty solid. The only way I can imagine it being wrong is if there is a conspiracy of some kind that is fabricating evidence (be it natural or supernatural). Either that or there would have to be a lot of people in the science business that have no idea what they were doing.

 

[Ijustwantpeace]

Yes we can. Speciation has been observed many times. Its your lack of knowledge in genetics that is blinding you.



Yet that is absolutely laughable. I have no real education less marine biology.

I am well trained in biblical studies, and follow a historical jesus closely.


No his resurrection was not observable nor was it observed.

It probably started out a spiritual resurrection in mythology that later turned into a physical resurrection.

We don't know what happened to his body, a few scholars think dogs and birds ate it. I run with, we don't know.

Not one bit of the NT was written by a single person who ever heard a word pass through Jesus lips.

1. I learned tonight there is a distinction between Speciation and class.

2. My formal education is in Biblical Studies. I also have done literally (I mean literally) hundreds of hours of study on the subject. I dispute the whole of your secondary statement. There are many biblical scholars secular, and otherwise who would dispute it as well. Also, no disrespect but you come off as condescending as if your talking down to me. Forgive me if I seem to be doing the same.

 

[outhouse]

Your under the impression there is a debate? that is a factual error. There is no debate.

Evolution is fact

Refusal is factually fanaticism and fundamentalism.

 

[outhouse]

Forgive me if I seem to be doing the same.

Its OK brother

Its just years of repeating this same information ad nauseam.

 

[Ijustwantpeace]

Hypocritical?


Your typing on a computer science made.

Your only alive today due to the CDC's knowledge of evolution.

You cannot visit a doctor because every dingle thing he knows is due to science.

I said I put little credence in modern academia. Engineering however, of any sort I put much credence in.

 

[Bunyip]

Yes I did, I do believe felines and canines are related, I'm just skeptical of the common ancestry of apes.

Ok. Well I'm struggling to understand you then - why would it be any different? Surely apes are related just as felines and canines are? You seem to be making a very arbitrary distinction. Why would you accept one but be skeptical of the other - given that the evidence is the same?

Remember I said I should have said I believe in aspects of Micro-Evolution

No problem, nothing wrong with getting to the bottom of something and asking probing questions.

Let me ask you a question. Do you ever doubt evolution as an all encompassing theory for origins when you sit and contemplate it logically? Just an honest question, no insinuation in it.

Well no, of course not. Evolution does not even attempt to explain origins, it is about how species change over time.
Do you mean abiogenesis?

Thanks for being so polite by the way, I appreciate it very much.

My question in turn is; Can you honestly tell me that you can not see the close relationship between a chimp and a gorilla? You can see it in the felines and the canines - are you honestly telling me that you can not see that chimps and gorillas are the same family?

 

[outhouse]

2. My formal education is in Biblical Studies. I also have done literally (I mean literally) hundreds of hours of study on the subject.


.

Im 4 years deep of intense study.

You wont find a credible scholar that backs your position though. And if they make that claim, run. Because that would make them poor teachers.

I would claim anyone that thinks jesus was anywhere near the authors who wrote the books is severely mistaken and needs to find a real teacher instead of apologist teachings.

 

[outhouse]

. Engineering however, of any sort I put much credence in.

Nice. :bow:


Then you might understand in a different format.


the CDC engineers drugs based on their vast knowledge of evolution. Including speciation.

If they are not 100% involved they could not engineer the drugs required to keep us all alive.

Fact is not a word that means maybe or might be or probably is.

 

[Sapiens]

So I am extremely skeptical of the whole evolution story. This is not based on my christian beliefs as I believe the bible and evolution are not irreconcilable. I have a few Christian friends who believe in the bible and evolution, and have a real faith.

I simply have an extremely hard time believing it. As I think it is largely speculative, and takes empirical evidences and makes gross(large not nasty) assumptions.

For example I'm reading this article on live science, it suppose to be an article that explains the theory of evolution(as I'm trying to become more educated on the topic), but instead I get the story of the supposed evolution of the whale.

If you feel so inclined please read this article with a skeptical eye and try to notice all the assumptions and speculations I believe it makes and promotes as fact.

Darwin's Theory of Evolution: Definition & Evidence

Do you see what I mean? Or does this article seem intellectually equitable to you?

I'm not saying this is the best evidence for the theory, and I'm not completely uneducated on the topic. I have read large swaths of Talkorigins and other evolution promoting website. However, the more I read the less I believe.

This is not a substantive rebuttal of the theory of evolution. This is just a minor articulation of my skepticism on the theory of evolution.

Just to clarify I believe in Micro-evolution.

It's written at a rather low grade level. but it's basically accurate, if slightly simplified. The whale is a good example to use because it's fossil record and genetics are well known.

 

[Ijustwantpeace]

I'm glad to see that you have an openness about this issue.

Do you understand how radiometric dating works? That's a good place to start and is relevant to evolutionary evidence.

Thank you, I have rudimentary understanding how radiometric dating work. They measure the rate of decay of lets say Potassium into argon. I can tell you that I am skeptical of the accuracy of it. Which could be based on how knowledgeable I am on the topic, but I will share my major reason why.

It can't be used on any rock that we have seen formed. This is because it is supposedly only accurate in long term dating. Which is the whole reason I have a hard time believing it.

If it is not accurate in the short term, how are we supposed to know it is accurate in the long term. Without being able to test it, it seems like speculation, based on theory.

 

[Alceste]

Just read an article on it, sorry, I don't believe we evolved from primates is what I should have said.

Good, because we didn't. We are primates.