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What is Feminism, and how does it relate to Animus Individuation?

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
I'm not sure is this is the correct place to post this, as it is more of a Jungian psychological perspective than Feminism proper. If this isn't the proper place for it, please direct me to the proper Place for it. Thank you.

________________________________________________________________________________

What is Feminism?

Feminism is an antinomian movement which critiques the cultural nomos through the feminine lens.

Nomos (sociology) - Wikipedia

Feminism calls the nomos that it critiques "The Patriarchy."

Being an antinomian movement, it is usually concerned with changing the specific cultural nomos it arose in. This probably accounts for the reason why some "Western Men" feel singled out and "vilified" by it. Nomos usually resides just below the consciousness, which gives the nomos the advantage of appearing to be "self-evident," or part of our "DNA." This shields the nomos from conscious critical thinking, and makes people very uncomfortable when the nomos is brought into consciousness for examination. Facing your unconscious programming can be downright terrifying. The contents of your unconscious mind are personal to the individual, and any critique of unconscious programming is liable to be seen as an attack on the person. The ego might feel that it is failing its job of providing mental stability.

Carl Jung and other psychologists call this bringing of unconscious material into consciousness and examining it consciously individuation. Part of this process is identifying the elements that come from the collective nomos, and separating it from contents that are unique to the individual. You want to separate the cultural programming/nomos from the personal trauma/personal demons, and intelligently rebuild the unconscious habits and programming (karma) to better suit the person that you want to become.

Regarding feminism and the individuation process, I believe that the most effective strategy for women who want to affect real change within their cultural nomos is through individuation and development of their animus to the level of spiritual guide as described in this wiki article, both transforming herself and contributing towards the transformation of the ideal of what it means to be a man within the collective unconscious. (Personally, I would prefer the ideal man to be a spiritual guide (highest level animus development) rather than a thug (lowest level animus development.) By the term animus, I’m referring to the unconscious intellectual mind of women as described by Carl Jung, not the animating spark of animism.

Anima and animus - Wikipedia

Part of the process of animus individuation is separating the cultural nomos and other factors from the collective unconscious from what the woman actually thinks for herself. Much of the enforcement of the unconscious, uncritiqued, cultural nomos is done by women whose animus is in the lower stages, so feminism, in the form of critique of the nomos and separating it from what she really thinks, is really a necessary part of a woman's psychological growth and animus individuation. If you look closely, you might be able to identify the various stages of animus development within different expressions of feminism:

Jung stated that there are four parallel levels of animus development in a woman.[3]
  • Man of mere physical power
    The animus "first appears as a personification of mere physical power - for instance as an athletic champion or muscle man, such as 'the fictional jungle hero Tarzan'".[4]

    One might identify this stage with "feminazis." (Using force like the man of mere physical power.)

    .
  • Man of action or romance
    In the next phase, the animus "possesses initiative and the capacity for planned action...the romantic man - the 19th century British poet Byron; or the man of action - America's Ernest Hemingway, war hero, hunter, etc."[5]

    One might identify this stage with "Social justice warriors." (Using the man of action or warrior motif.)

    .

  • Man as a professor, clergyman, orator
    In the third phase "the animus becomes the word, often appearing as a professor or clergyman...the bearer of the word - Lloyd George, the great political orator".[5]

    One might identify this with those who "preach" feminism as an attempt to reprogram the nomos.

    .
  • Man as a spiritual guide
    "Finally, in his fourth manifestation, the animus is the incarnation of meaning. On this highest level he becomes (like the anima) a mediator of...spiritual profundity".[6] Jung noted that "in mythology, this aspect of the animus appears as Hermes, messenger of the gods; in dreams he is a helpful guide." Like Sophia, this is the highest level of mediation between the unconscious and conscious mind.

    One might see this stage as those who point out this path of transformation as both a journey of self-transformation as well as societal transformation, knowing which messages to deliver to whom.

    .
While this is just a general note, I really think this part needs repeating:

so feminism, in the form of critique of the nomos and separating it from what she really thinks, is really a necessary part of a woman's psychological growth and animus individuation.

Thank you for reading.
 
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Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Honestly, I'm a little put off by defining feminism in psychological terms, rather than in terms of political, social, economic, etc fairness or equity. I can, however, vaguely see the use of such a view in some ways. Just that I don't think it should be the primary definition of feminism, if that's what's being suggested here.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
Honestly, I'm a little put off by defining feminism in psychological terms, rather than in terms of political, social, economic, etc fairness or equity. I can, however, vaguely see the use of such a view in some ways. Just that I don't think it should be the primary definition of feminism, if that's what's being suggested here.
What I'm trying to bring up is the need for conscious self-transformation if you want to transform society--in this case, animus individuation.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
What I'm trying to bring up is the need for conscious self-transformation if you want to transform society--in this case, animus individuation.

I see. Well, that sounds like a good topic to me, albeit one that can be sliced and diced in so many ways. I'm intrigued by the way you're doing it here.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
If I understand this correctly, "individuation" boils down to -- minus all the how, the why, and the nuance -- becoming ones own person?
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
Feminism is an antinomian movement which critiques the cultural nomos.

I would encourage you to consider tagging through the feminine lens after "nomos."

A common idea that comes up when discussing feminism seems to be the differentiation between feminism and egalitarianism. For some reason, people have a very hard time understanding that feminism is concerned with issues from the perspective that they impact women.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
I would encourage you to consider tagging through the feminine lens after "nomos."

A common idea that comes up when discussing feminism seems to be the differentiation between feminism and egalitarianism. For some reason, people have a very hard time understanding that feminism is concerned with issues from the perspective that they impact women.
Edited to reflect this.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
If I understand this correctly, "individuation" boils down to -- minus all the how, the why, and the nuance -- becoming ones own person?
Yes, exactly that--knowing yourself, and taking control of your development.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Yes, exactly that--knowing yourself, and taking control of your development.

At first blush, that ties in rather nicely with my long-held belief that the ideal adult human is a strong, fully functional individual who is true to his or her self in a socially and environmentally responsible way. Howrah!
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
What I'm trying to bring up is the need for conscious self-transformation if you want to transform society--in this case, animus individuation.

In a way it is difficult or perhaps even impossible to imagine genuinely changing society for the better without first changing the self. I'm not much of a fan of the notion that we should change society first because only then can we transform the self. At most, I can see those things going somewhat hand in hand, but I believe the self can be significantly changed even without changing society. One might thus become alienated from society though.
 

Phantasman

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure is this is the correct place to post this, as it is more of a Jungian psychological perspective than Feminism proper. If this isn't the proper place for it, please direct me to the proper Place for it. Thank you.

________________________________________________________________________________

What is Feminism?

Feminism is an antinomian movement which critiques the cultural nomos through the feminine lens.

Nomos (sociology) - Wikipedia

Feminism calls the nomos that it critiques "The Patriarchy."

Being an antinomian movement, it is usually concerned with changing the specific cultural nomos it arose in. This probably accounts for the reason why some "Western Men" feel singled out and "vilified" by it. Nomos usually resides just below the consciousness, which gives the nomos the advantage of appearing to be "self-evident," or part of our "DNA." This shields the nomos from conscious critical thinking, and makes people very uncomfortable when the nomos is brought into consciousness for examination. Facing your unconscious programming can be downright terrifying. The contents of your unconscious mind are personal to the individual, and any critique of unconscious programming is liable to be seen as an attack on the person. The ego might feel that it is failing its job of providing mental stability.

Carl Jung and other psychologists call this bringing of unconscious material into consciousness and examining it consciously individuation. Part of this process is identifying the elements that come from the collective nomos, and separating it from contents that are unique to the individual. You want to separate the cultural programming/nomos from the personal trauma/personal demons, and intelligently rebuild the unconscious habits and programming (karma) to better suit the person that you want to become.

Regarding feminism and the individuation process, I believe that the most effective strategy for women who want to affect real change within their cultural nomos is through individuation and development of their animus to the level of spiritual guide as described in this wiki article, both transforming herself and contributing towards the transformation of the ideal of what it means to be a man within the collective unconscious. (Personally, I would prefer the ideal man to be a spiritual guide (highest level animus development) rather than a thug (lowest level animus development.) By the term animus, I’m referring to the unconscious intellectual mind of women as described by Carl Jung, not the animating spark of animism.

Anima and animus - Wikipedia

Part of the process of animus individuation is separating the cultural nomos and other factors from the collective unconscious from what the woman actually thinks for herself. Much of the enforcement of the unconscious, uncritiqued, cultural nomos is done by women whose animus is in the lower stages, so feminism, in the form of critique of the nomos and separating it from what she really thinks, is really a necessary part of a woman's psychological growth and animus individuation. If you look closely, you might be able to identify the various stages of animus development within different expressions of feminism:

Jung stated that there are four parallel levels of animus development in a woman.[3]
  • Man of mere physical power
    The animus "first appears as a personification of mere physical power - for instance as an athletic champion or muscle man, such as 'the fictional jungle hero Tarzan'".[4]

    One might identify this stage with "feminazis." (Using force like the man of mere physical power.)

    .
  • Man of action or romance
    In the next phase, the animus "possesses initiative and the capacity for planned action...the romantic man - the 19th century British poet Byron; or the man of action - America's Ernest Hemingway, war hero, hunter, etc."[5]

    One might identify this stage with "Social justice warriors." (Using the man of action or warrior motif.)

    .

  • Man as a professor, clergyman, orator
    In the third phase "the animus becomes the word, often appearing as a professor or clergyman...the bearer of the word - Lloyd George, the great political orator".[5]

    One might identify this with those who "preach" feminism as an attempt to reprogram the nomos.

    .
  • Man as a spiritual guide
    "Finally, in his fourth manifestation, the animus is the incarnation of meaning. On this highest level he becomes (like the anima) a mediator of...spiritual profundity".[6] Jung noted that "in mythology, this aspect of the animus appears as Hermes, messenger of the gods; in dreams he is a helpful guide." Like Sophia, this is the highest level of mediation between the unconscious and conscious mind.

    One might see this stage as those who point out this path of transformation as both a journey of self-transformation as well as societal transformation, knowing which messages to deliver to whom.

    .
While this is just a general note, I really think this part needs repeating:

so feminism, in the form of critique of the nomos and separating it from what she really thinks, is really a necessary part of a woman's psychological growth and animus individuation.

Thank you for reading.
Excellent. Which is why the "early orthodox church" chose a patriarchal path of the spiritualism Christ taught.

(114) Simon Peter said to him, "Let Mary leave us, for women are not worthy of life."
Jesus said, "I myself shall lead her in order to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who will make herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven."- Gospel of Thomas

The catholics were of flesh (and still are) and the spiritual (truth) evades them. IMO.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
In a way it is difficult or perhaps even impossible to imagine genuinely changing society for the better without first changing the self. I'm not much of a fan of the notion that we should change society first because only then can we transform the self. At most, I can see those things going somewhat hand in hand, but I believe the self can be significantly changed even without changing society. One might thus become alienated from society though.
Indeed. Many of the great movers and shakers were ostracized during their lifetime.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
What is Feminism?
I like the first definition offered by dictionary.com....
the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.
Adding more to this definition is what differentiates one flavor of feminism from another.
Just as a libertarian feminist cannot define it from this perspective, neither can the others,
eg, 1st wave, 2nd wave, 3rd wave, postmodern, radical, etc.
Ref....
Feminist movements and ideologies - Wikipedia
 
For some reason, people have a very hard time understanding that feminism is concerned with issues from the perspective that they impact women.

This is better reworded as:
Feminism is concerned with issues THAT IMPACT ALL from the perspective OF women.
The funny thing about this is that women almost need work on their anima or inner feminine as much as men do. In today's culture, masculine values reign supreme. Thus, all people have a 'masculinized mind,' meaning their automatic mode of operation is linear, abstract, rational. To consciously and intentionally assimilate feminine values into one's life is immensely challenging because it essentially goes against how our brains are wired, and against the continual flow of society. In contrast, feminine attributes are holistic, integrative, and intuitive. When we use the words 'masculine' and feminine we are drawing on a theoretical canon associative meanings originating from biology, society, philosophy etc.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
This is better reworded as:
Feminism is concerned with issues THAT IMPACT ALL from the perspective OF women.
The funny thing about this is that women almost need work on their anima or inner feminine as much as men do. In today's culture, masculine values reign supreme. Thus, all people have a 'masculinized mind,' meaning their automatic mode of operation is linear, abstract, rational. To consciously and intentionally assimilate feminine values into one's life is immensely challenging because it essentially goes against how our brains are wired, and against the continual flow of society. In contrast, feminine attributes are holistic, integrative, and intuitive. When we use the words 'masculine' and feminine we are drawing on a theoretical canon associative meanings originating from biology, society, philosophy etc.
Have you studied Jung?

For women, their "inner feminine" would be repressed in the Shadow, according to your model of a hyper-masculine society. Lillith has left Eden due to (mostly sexual) abuse and fled to the Shadow.

Anima represents the feminine within the personal sunconscious of men. Animus represents the masculine within the personal unconscious of women.
 
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