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What is free will?

nilsz

bzzt
Do you regard free will as something that can be assigned responsibility?

Do you agree that free will is something that is unshaped by the wider universe?

Do you agree that, in order to be responsible, free will must have some awareness over what it is responsible?

Do you agree that in order to be aware over what it is responsible, it needs to be affected by it?
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
...I tend to just regard free will as describing a situation in which a sentient being is fully capable of making multiple choices, and all of them are potential. If it's an illusion, it's only an illusion in the same sense that computer multitasking is an illusion (no, really.)
 

nilsz

bzzt
@Riverwolf:

Does that mean that you regard a mind's indeterminism as free will?

Multitasking in a multi-core computer is not entirely an illusion, but it is true that each core imitates concurrent processing by sequentially context-switching from one sequential processing "thread" to another, in such a rapid pace that each thread appears to be acting concurrently.

I find it difficult to understand the analogy. A different computing analogy that I might apply to the mind is the state machine, as the mind clearly has some state. The question is then, what role does free will have with this state machine?

@Quatermass:

If you define free will as an action without cause, do you not then also agree that free will could not be assigned any human responsibility, as it cannot be influenced by anything in the universe?
 

PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
...I tend to just regard free will as describing a situation in which a sentient being is fully capable of making multiple choices, and all of them are potential. If it's an illusion, it's only an illusion in the same sense that computer multitasking is an illusion (no, really.)
Computer multitasking stopped being an illusion in 2004. ;)

However, free will is just an illusion generated by not knowing yourself perfectly.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
However, free will is just an illusion generated by not knowing yourself perfectly.
Is that even possible? Isn't there quite a bit of uncertainty when is comes to tracing causality in regards to human consciousness?
 

Gjallarhorn

N'yog-Sothep
Do you regard free will as something that can be assigned responsibility?
Only if accurate, which is unlikely.

Do you agree that free will is something that is unshaped by the wider universe?
According to the typical definition of "the ability to do otherwise", yes.

Do you agree that, in order to be responsible, free will must have some awareness over what it is responsible?
According to free will advocates, nothing else is responsible except the one who acts.

Do you agree that in order to be aware over what it is responsible, it needs to be affected by it?
I would agree that one is effected (no typo) by it whether they are aware of it or not.
 

Gjallarhorn

N'yog-Sothep
But every action has cause,
So I'm assuming you don't believe in free will?

Would personal attachment to the concept of determinism/indeterminism alter your method of debate? Or are you mentally capable of arguing against the concept alone, not the person behind it?
 

Thana

Lady
Would personal attachment to the concept of determinism/indeterminism alter your method of debate? Or are you mentally capable of arguing against the concept alone, not the person behind it?


I was just curious about his answer and his thoughts on his definition of free will.
:shrug:
 

Gjallarhorn

N'yog-Sothep
I was just curious about his answer and his thoughts on his definition of free will.
:shrug:

:sorry1:

I grow increasingly cautious of people's need to associate another's stance in a debate to something more internal, which can lead to ad hominem and derailment of the debate process.

I probably jumped the gun a bit there. :p
 

Thana

Lady
:sorry1:

I grow increasingly cautious of people's need to associate another's stance in a debate to something more internal, which can lead to ad hominem and derailment of the debate process.

I probably jumped the gun a bit there. :p


S'alright :)
 

Gjallarhorn

N'yog-Sothep
Alright, who won the Nobel prize and explained consciousness? I must have been unconscious when that happened. :eek:

I'm not certain discussion of free will on Polyhedral's level really requires a thorough explanation of consciousness. A simple understanding of physics would suffice.
 

LegionOnomaMoi

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Barring theories of quantum consciousness or some "new physics" suggested in, for example, certain work in systems biology does not mean a simple understanding of physics leaves us with a reductive program in which free will is impossible. Physicalism does not entail reductionism or the impossibility of higher level structures like those of the mind as being causally efficacious:

"there are several reasons for questioning reductionism in the context of classical (nonquantum) dynamics. First, although the reductive program asserts that all higher-level dynamics can “in principle” be causally explained in terms of physics and chemistry, reductionism does not imply constructionism. This is because there is an immense number of possible emergent entities at each level of both the biological and the cognitive hierarchies, so what actually occurs depends largely on happenstance (Poincare's “fortuitous phenomena”) that is consistent with but not constrained by the laws of physics and chemistry.
Second, reductionism does not explain how the various types of Aristotelian causality (material, formal, efficient, and final) are to be sorted out. Under nonlinear dynamics, even the threads of efficient cause become interwoven, and downward action of formal causes makes lower-level dynamics depend on higher-level phenomena, at variance with reductive assumptions.
Third, from an operational perspective, the nature of time differs at higher and lower levels – the “arrow of time” being bidirectional under energy conservation and unidirectional under the energy-consuming dynamics of biology. This is problematic for biological reductionism because a system with unidirectional time is asked to be described in terms of bidirectional time.
Fourth, living creatures are open systems, regularly replacing their atomic and molecular constituents. Thus exact knowledge of the speeds and positions of these constituents at one time cannot be used for making higher-level predictions at later times.
In biological and cognitive systems, finally, myriad closed causal loops and networks with positive feedback obscure the relationships between cause and effect, leading both to the emergence of new dynamic entities with unanticipated properties and to chaotic interactions among them."
Scott, A. (2006). Physicalism, Chaos and Reductionism. In The Emerging Physics of Consciousness (pp. 171-191). Springer Berlin.
 
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