Its an omnipotence within boundry.
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What is free will?
- Thread starter nilsz
- Start date
Its an omnipotence within boundry.
Gjallarhorn
N'yog-Sothep
As I said, your definition is opposed to a belief which no one in their right mind would hold. It's not an arguable stance, unless you happen across someone who believes they can alter the course of trans-Neptunian objects.
Really? But it seems logical to me. Freewill is the sum of all possible decisions that a person can choose to make? That doesnt seem crazy at all.
Gjallarhorn
N'yog-Sothep
Well yes. Because others brought up the computer topic...what do you not understand about the definition i last gave?
nilsz
bzzt
I believe understanding that the mind is not supernatural, to understand that it is bound by the laws of physics and has predictable behaviours, enable us to better understand it. It does not necessarily mean that concepts such as free will and responsibility become meaningless; we may instead receive an expanded understanding of them.
I am not sure if this is what ladybug77 is referring to, but according to determinism, one mind with a given state can only act in one way for a given situation. If a person suffers from mental health issues, that likely limits what situations they are able to handle. If a computer is not programmed to handle some circumstances, it may be unable to handle them.
This comparison between humans and computers does not mean that I consider human dignity comparable to that of any computer. Human dignity is a core belief of mine, and is not something I question.
Edit: Added bolded.
I am not sure if this is what ladybug77 is referring to, but according to determinism, one mind with a given state can only act in one way for a given situation. If a person suffers from mental health issues, that likely limits what situations they are able to handle. If a computer is not programmed to handle some circumstances, it may be unable to handle them.
This comparison between humans and computers does not mean that I consider human dignity comparable to that of any computer. Human dignity is a core belief of mine, and is not something I question.
Edit: Added bolded.
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Basically thats what i mean...but. with one difference: that we do act in ONE way to a situation. But the FREEWILL is all the possibilities of the ONE action we choose. We choose ONE way to react from several different possible ways to react. Thats freewill.
A set of possible results that always "collapses" into one and only one result. What does that remind me of...
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No...i didnt say it was one ultimate result...the result depends on the action.
This really doesnt have to involve a 'God' concept at all...freewill is just a word to describe that we have different possible reactions to everyday situations in life...with different possible outcomes. The sum of all possiblity is the 'freewill'. Make sense to me.
Gjallarhorn
N'yog-Sothep
Well, i assumed you were contrasting a computer with a human, but you were actually equating them. My bad.
My only problem with it is that it doesn't say how decisions are made, which is basically the crux of the whole debate. If decisions are made based on prior causes, then that would be determinism. If decisions are made based on odds, then it's indeterminism.
Neither of which is free will.
And neither of which is feasible. Decisions made on prior causes? Not so... Situations are based on prior reactions to prior situations. (Not free will itself...but an exert of freewill) decisions based on odds? Can you elaborate?
Cant the decision not be based on anything? The free will is just all the possible decisions to asituation...so its not the freewill we are asking about then...its the decision making process?
Am i on the right track here?
Gjallarhorn
N'yog-Sothep
If it wasn't based on anything, it would be completely random. Indeterminism.
Ok...so ive thought about this in the last hour or so.
Im not good at explaining sometimes...but i think i can make a logical point if you can follow...here it goes: could free will be both? I think it is! If freewill is infact the sum of of all possible decisions and outcomes of situations...then the decision can be based on either determinism, or indeterminism. So its not that the decision is based on neither...but its your choose to react either way. Does this make sense? I could elaborate if nessecary...but i tend to get even more hard to follow the more i blab. Lol.
Neither did I.
My theory: (i may have just breathed in Einstien's recycled air) bare with me.
Free will is a mathmatical equation. Free will is a paradox aswell. The matrix per say.
So free will can be described and explained in a diagram. The diagram revolves around the NOW situation. Under the NOW are all possible actions, and reactions.
For example: if in the NOW you are sitting in your bedroom. Nothing else...just sitting...there are endless possibilties. Shower or no shower. Go back to sleep, or get up. Get on the net, go to the store, call in to work, or go...etc...each possiblity has a number: sleep is 1. Get up is 2...etc. if we decide to go back to sleep...The NOW has changed. New situation...so the possibilties are new aswell. From each decision new possiblities arise. New actions and reactions.
Like making an action of the number 1 (sleep) will equal the reaction of (X) in equation form. If (X)=11 for instance...all possible situations will derive from the 11 now instead of the 1.
To explain the paradox: or how we base or decisions or either determinism or indeterminism, and fate exist in a co-biotic relationship.
Choosing to go back to sleep could be based on different factors:if you based your decision on the fact that you are still tired...you action has a cause.
If you base it on nothing other than you just want to sleep...the action has no cause.
Its like a negative and positive dial...same action...different reason. The reason why you choose also effects the equation of the next possible action and reaction.
If we slep more for the reason we are tired...we may wake up refreshed, justified action.
If we sleep more for the reason we just want to...no reason at all...we may wake up feeling as if we wasted the day.
Likewise, we may feel either or despite the reason we choose the action...but the outcome and probabilty we feel a certain way after the intial reaction is changed, based on the reasoning.
Its like a mayan calender...or a dial with sequencing numbers...i will attempt to illistrate later...but ive ran out of Einstien air for now.
(If they didnt think i was crazy already...they do now. Lol)
Free will is a mathmatical equation. Free will is a paradox aswell. The matrix per say.
So free will can be described and explained in a diagram. The diagram revolves around the NOW situation. Under the NOW are all possible actions, and reactions.
For example: if in the NOW you are sitting in your bedroom. Nothing else...just sitting...there are endless possibilties. Shower or no shower. Go back to sleep, or get up. Get on the net, go to the store, call in to work, or go...etc...each possiblity has a number: sleep is 1. Get up is 2...etc. if we decide to go back to sleep...The NOW has changed. New situation...so the possibilties are new aswell. From each decision new possiblities arise. New actions and reactions.
Like making an action of the number 1 (sleep) will equal the reaction of (X) in equation form. If (X)=11 for instance...all possible situations will derive from the 11 now instead of the 1.
To explain the paradox: or how we base or decisions or either determinism or indeterminism, and fate exist in a co-biotic relationship.
Choosing to go back to sleep could be based on different factors:if you based your decision on the fact that you are still tired...you action has a cause.
If you base it on nothing other than you just want to sleep...the action has no cause.
Its like a negative and positive dial...same action...different reason. The reason why you choose also effects the equation of the next possible action and reaction.
If we slep more for the reason we are tired...we may wake up refreshed, justified action.
If we sleep more for the reason we just want to...no reason at all...we may wake up feeling as if we wasted the day.
Likewise, we may feel either or despite the reason we choose the action...but the outcome and probabilty we feel a certain way after the intial reaction is changed, based on the reasoning.
Its like a mayan calender...or a dial with sequencing numbers...i will attempt to illistrate later...but ive ran out of Einstien air for now.
(If they didnt think i was crazy already...they do now. Lol)
Everything can be interpreted causally and can be expressed causally, but causation is not simply saying something caused something else. I might say, for example, that my calling out a friend's name caused her to turn, but causation is local. What caused her to turn were vibrations in her ear and the subsequent signaling of neurons. Determinism involves causation, of course, but the 2 are not equivalent. Determinism posits that causality can be explained wholly by the lowest level phenomenon according to known rules such that there is no way for anything to happen that could not, at least in theory, be predicted exactly long before. It means we can explain the brain and consciousness entirely in terms of subatomic particles each obeying local laws and causing macroscopic phenomenon in ways that can be understood wholly by physics acting on each individual particle. It's also wrong.
Okay, free will works how an atoms protons, nuetrons, and electrons work. Say we have 12 protons, and 12 nuetrons in the nucleus. The protons represent the situation in the now. The nuetrons represent the action to the situation. If we act on a proton # 1, our reaction is -1. And the electrons are at a specific point on the outer circle. If we act on proton #2, the reaction is -2 (and now the electrons are at a different point than the first senario)...the possiblities are the electrons outside the nucleus. Depending on the waves vibration and frequency...the electrons can be PREDICTED to be at a certain point in time and space outside the nucleous...but its ever changing. Hence: freewill.
Gjallarhorn
N'yog-Sothep
...what?