What is Holism

[Nick Soapdish]

I am confused by holism as it relates to spirtuality. It seems to be a common theme in many eastern religions as well as new age thought.

Certainly, I can see how the material world can be considered holistic. No two particles of matter actually touch each other; interactions are always conducted at a distance. In addition, every piece of matter interacts with every other piece of matter at each moment. We can see from this that any action we perform in the material world affects everyone in it to some degree.

However, when considering the conscious mind, it seems we move away from this concept. One thing I am certain of is that my mind and my identity are my own, and they are distinct from other people’s minds and identities. When I make a deliberate decision, it is my decision and no one else’s. It seems within the context of our minds and conscious behavior, holism is lost.

 

[Master Vigil]

"When I make a deliberate decision, it is my decision and no one else’s."

But what made you make that decision? Is it how you were raised, societal constraints, previous experience, etc...? If you can prove that you decision was made solely on your own without any influences, than your theory is true.

 

[Nick Soapdish]

"When I make a deliberate decision, it is my decision and no one else’s."

But what made you make that decision? Is it how you were raised, societal constraints, previous experience, etc...? If you can prove that you decision was made solely on your own without any influences, than your theory is true.

I agree that my decisions are not made in a vacuum and they are influenced by my environment. However, those influences do not dictate the decision, but rather provide the options to choose from. Each option may have a varying degree of persuation, but it is up to the ego to determine the final outcome. Is this in conflict with holism?

 

[Master Vigil]

But they even pursuade you to choose from those options. Everything is learned, it may be up to your ego to determine a final outcome, but that final outcome comes from an outside source. If you come up with a decision that has no outside source, was made up by you and you alone, has no influence from the world, and only affects you and you entirely, than your theory stands. But I do not believe that is possible. Everything you do is based upon your environment.

 

[michel]

But they even pursuade you to choose from those options. Everything is learned, it may be up to your ego to determine a final outcome, but that final outcome comes from an outside source. If you come up with a decision that has no outside source, was made up by you and you alone, has no influence from the world, and only affects you and you entirely, than your theory stands. But I do not believe that is possible. Everything you do is based upon your environment.

Hi atofel;
Until today, I had never heard of the noun 'holism' ;although I am of course happy with holistic (This must show that there is a gear tooth missing in the old Grey-matter); nevertheless, I have found you a website :- http://www.ecotao.com/holism/std-1.htm
I agree with Master Vigil in that I cannot even begin to imagine your 'state of mind' being totally separate from any external influences; it feels like an impossibility.
I hope the site is of use to you.

 

[Era]

What Pierre Duhem said in his theory about holism , was right in just one part , you`ve all said that we can not choose withount being influenced by society or other factors and this is true , we have to increase in our adaptability to enviroment , but what about our inner psychology ? What about our own individual characteristics ? It`s true that we connect with each other , no one lives alone in this world , but with all that we are still different from each other . So , does allways our choices are made by some external factors ?

 

[kreeden]

Some say that Jung was insane . ??? But if ones looks at symbols , you do tend to begin to see a relationship we all appear to share on a subconscious level . And as the subconscious effects the conscious , perhaps we don't move as far away from the concept of holism as we like to believe ?

" One thing I am certain of is that my mind and my identity are my own, and they are distinct from other people’s minds and identities. " Yes , I'm sure that they are . To a degree . And that is all that it takes to be different , the slightest degree of difference . Humans like things in black and white . Orderly and without confusion . But must things aren't " black and white " . Most are shades of gray .

What I'm trying to say here is that Yin and Yang , Good and Evil , And yes , even " differences " and " similarities " make up the whole . Now , the question is ," Can one experince one fully without the contrast of the other ?"

Of course Holism takes on a whole different colour if one follows it ... multi-universes , parallel dimensions , and all of that . I'm a simple person , and will leave all of that for others . Besides , I'm still half asleep . I hope that I made a little sense ???

 

[Era]

So , what you say , that symbols are a necesity? Couse if that`s so , than I do agree that our world is based on symbols , our social rules , religions , they are all some kind of rituals , based on symbols. All things are both good and bad , it`s up to us how we define those things .

 

[kreeden]

We are talking in symbols . So yes , they are very important . But Carl Jung talked about Universal Symbols , that had the same meaning regardless of culture , age or whatever . If true , then even our individualism would have similarities . Cool eh ?

Now Jung went on to explain that individual experiences can change the meanings of those symbols , but he figured that most remained the same .

 

[Era]

Kreeden , it`s imposible not to have some similarities between us . After all we all live in the same world . Each individual when analysing one thing , in some point tends to give to that thing his own interpretation , in this way he can adjust himself to that particular thing . We have to be very carefull when we "read" those things , we have to find a balance between what we consider that symbol to be and what he really is . It`s like making a compromise between us and the world .

 

[kreeden]

And I agree . However one has to wonder just how much these symbols influence our thinking , even to the point of how we think . Or at the very lest , how we combine these symbols with other symbols that make up our thoughts .

For excample , words are just symbols , each having some meaning relating it to something . Most of us think in words . So those symbols { words } have an effect upon everything we think about . We descride whatever we are thinking about in colours , shapes , sizes , etc . If we know it well enough , we have already given it's own symbol , in the form of a name , so we think of it as that name .

But I agree . At some point we do tend to go our own way , because of individualism , personal experiences { which makes us individuals , or one of the things that do } , or for whatever reason . Chaos and Order , combined .

 

[Era]

It does influence us in a huge way , we are after all intuitive people and we agree with this symbols because we can "feel" it . As the holism says that evewrything goes from universal to particular , we have to think how much of holism theory can we realise in practice . Holism theory dependes on the society in wich is applied . If you live in a society based on commun interaction , where most people have commun rules , than we can say that it goes from universal to particular , but if you live in a society based on individuality , then I thing that the individual is the one that make his choices about his values . Even if holism goes with generality ( the same colour applied to everyone), I think that it underlines very well the world`s relativism .

 

[amylong]

This looks interesting. I just want to be sure I know what we're talking about though.

Holism is saying that you have to consider everything to understand anything?

I'm not really clear.

--Amy

 

[kreeden]

You kinda lost this old ogre Era . But I do think that I agree , to a degree . Any idea , taken too far seems to start to fell apart , I think . But then , I guess that it could be argued that the reason it fells apart is because one starts to over how other things may effect it ? Or not ?

 

[Era]

Yes , amylong , the principle of holism talks about the understanding of one thing just by analysing every area that you find this thing in , so analyse everything so you can find the answer for just one . Kreeden , what was the thing that got you lost ? In holism nothing is simple , it`s a very complex system and you can find contradiction in every step .

 

[amylong]

Yes , amylong , the principle of holism talks about the understanding of one thing just by analysing every area that you find this thing in , so analyse everything so you can find the answer for just one . Kreeden , what was the thing that got you lost ? In holism nothing is simple , it`s a very complex system and you can find contradiction in every step .

Thanks.

Just so I understand, to understand a penny in a jar of other coins, you would analyze all the other coins in the jar to understand the penny?

--Amy

 

[Era]

Yes , indeed! Going from universal to individual.