What is in a name: Why are Christians readily accepting of Judaic theology and not Islamic theology?

[Rival]

I am not sure what you mean, so please, elaborate a bit more. Are you saying the woman should have received the punishment as prescribed in the Torah?

Yes.

 

[A Spirit Runs Through It]

Yes.

How can you presume to judge by the law when you yourself have broken the law? It seems hypocritical – a thief condemning a thief.

 

[Rival]

How can you presume to judge by the law when you yourself have broken the law? It seems hypocritical – a thief condemning a thief.

I don't think you understand how this works.

She broke the law. She is judged according to the law. Other peoples' transgressions aren't relevant here. If we never allowed our society to judge by a given law because we have all transgressed at some point, there would be chaos and anarchy.

'I've transgressed therefore you can' is not a legitimate form of law.

 

[A Spirit Runs Through It]

I don't think you understand how this works.

She broke the law. She is judged according to the law. Other peoples' transgressions aren't relevant here. If we never allowed our society to judge by a given law because we have all transgressed at some point, there would be chaos and anarchy.

The foundation of my understanding is built upon steady rock, not upon shifting sand.

She was not violent, nor was she abusive in the traditional sense. So why, then, should violence have been inflicted upon her? That is not justice.

It is justice that violent and abusive offenders be segregated, to await their punishment, at the Resurrection.

 

[Rival]

The foundation of my understanding is built upon steady rock, not upon shifting sand.

She was not violent, nor was she abusive in the traditional sense. So why, then, should violence have been inflicted upon her? That is not justice.

It is justice that violent and abusive offenders be segregated, to await their punishment, at the Resurrection.

So just let sinners sin. It's alright because after they die, they'll be punished.

Yeah, that's not gonna fly.

 

[A Spirit Runs Through It]

So just let sinners sin. It's alright because after they die, they'll be punished.

Yeah, that's not gonna fly.

Like I said, if they are violent and abusive then lock them up, so they cannot harm anyone; otherwise, let them be.

You would surely rather live in a free society.

 

[Rival]

Like I said, if they are violent and abusive then lock them up, so they cannot harm anyone; otherwise, let them be.

You would surely rather live in a free society.

The woman harmed her husband and transgressed the law. The law has a prescribed consequence for this. The woman knew what she was doing and what the outcome would be.

I would rather live in a society where laws are followed and people don't go around wantonly defying them.

 

[A Spirit Runs Through It]

The woman harmed her husband and transgressed the law. The law has a prescribed consequence for this. The woman knew what she was doing and what the outcome would be.

I would rather live in a society where laws are followed and people don't go around wantonly defying them.

Harm is subjective – violence is not.

Even unjust laws?

 

[Rival]

Harm is subjective – violence is not.

Even unjust laws?

You're calling G-d's laws unjust?

G-d gave the Jewish people a bunch of unjust laws to follow, is that what you're saying? Then sent some guy along thousands of years later to say, 'Sorry guys, just kidding!'

You're also contrary to Psalm 119.

 

[A Spirit Runs Through It]

You're calling G-d's laws unjust?

G-d gave the Jewish people a bunch of unjust laws to follow, is that what you're saying? Then sent some guy along thousands of years later to say, 'Sorry guys, just kidding!'

You're also contrary to Psalm 119.

I am saying the heart of the law is mercy.

“How terrible it will be for you legal experts and Pharisees! Hypocrites! You give to God a tenth of mint, dill, and cumin, but you forget about the more important matters of the Law: justice, peace, and faith. You ought to give a tenth but without forgetting about those more important matters. You blind guides! You filter out an ant but swallow a camel.

“How terrible it will be for you legal experts and Pharisees! Hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and plate, but inside they are full of violence and pleasure seeking. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup so that the outside of the cup will be clean too.

“How terrible it will be for you legal experts and Pharisees! Hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs. They look beautiful on the outside. But inside they are full of dead bones and all kinds of filth. In the same way you look righteous to people. But inside you are full of pretense and rebellion."

 

[Rival]

I am saying the heart of the law is mercy.

“How terrible it will be for you legal experts and Pharisees! Hypocrites! You give to God a tenth of mint, dill, and cumin, but you forget about the more important matters of the Law: justice, peace, and faith. You ought to give a tenth but without forgetting about those more important matters. You blind guides! You filter out an ant but swallow a camel.

“How terrible it will be for you legal experts and Pharisees! Hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and plate, but inside they are full of violence and pleasure seeking. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup so that the outside of the cup will be clean too.

“How terrible it will be for you legal experts and Pharisees! Hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs. They look beautiful on the outside. But inside they are full of dead bones and all kinds of filth. In the same way you look righteous to people. But inside you are full of pretense and rebellion."

I'm not interested in your scripture's anti-semitic quotes. Your logic makes no sense.

 

[A Spirit Runs Through It]

I'm not interested in your scripture's anti-semitic quotes. Your logic makes no sense.

How is my logic nonsensical?

 

[Milton Platt]

I would like to begin this thread with the following video:

Thoughts?

Because it is a part of what they grew up with from a child. It is the same indoctrination process that makes Islamists believe in their religion. There is no difference in the process. When you understand why you believe what you do, you will also understand why people of all other religions believe what they do.

 

[Rival]

How is my logic nonsensical?

Because you believe G-d gave the Israelites a set of unjust laws that he said are eternal, let them follow them for thousands of years and then apparently sent an itinerant preacher to tell them that, actually, these laws are impossible to follow. This along with the fact that for hundreds of years G-d sent prophets to admonish the Israelites and tell them to come back to Him and follow Torah, even though apparently all along this was impossible to do.

Does any of that make sense to you?

 

[Baroodi]

Compare these two passages concerning adultery, the first one being from the Quran, and the second one, from the New Testament:

"As for the adulterer and the adulteress, flog them each one hundred lashes, and let not pity for them overcome you concerning God’s Judgment, if you believe in God and the Last Day. And let their punishment be witnessed by a group of the believers (Q. 24:2)."

"Then each of them went home, while Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. Early in the morning he came again to the temple. All the people came to him and he sat down and began to teach them. The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery; and making her stand before all of them, they said to him, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery. Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" They said this to test him, so that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let anyone among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her." And once again he bent down and wrote on the ground. When they heard it, they went away, one by one, beginning with the elders; and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. Jesus straightened up and said to her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" She said, "No one, sir." And Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn you. Go your way, and from now on do not sin again (John 7:53–8:11)."

Now suppose you have committed adultery, and a mob has arrested you, dragging you before a judge to be sentenced: Which judge would you prefer to hear your case, Muhammad or Jesus?

The evil is evident, if one only considers the matter with a just mind. And this is but a drop in the bucket.

Adultery is a crime with deleterious socioeconomic impact. I ask you in another way; Suppose you caught your wife somewhere having sex, what you will do? will you be able to sleep well? will you be able to go to work as usual? are you going to hug your kids as usual or you will say; Behold he may not be my son!

do you agree it is awful? and the ruler has to curb it and its effects by facilitating chastity under marriage?

 

[A Spirit Runs Through It]

Because you believe G-d gave the Israelites a set of unjust laws that he said are eternal, let them follow them for thousands of years and then apparently sent an itinerant preacher to tell them that, actually, these laws are impossible to follow. This along with the fact that for hundreds of years G-d sent prophets to admonish the Israelites and tell them to come back to Him and follow Torah, even though apparently all along this was impossible to do.

Does any of that make sense to you?

I believe that God went political in order to prove a point; that politics cannot save a nation from corruption and redeem it. The Law that Moses handed to Israel was a measure of governance, and political in nature. Israel wanted to be saved from corruption, and yet, they felt it was impossible without some application of jurisprudence. Therefore God is like a parent, showing a headstrong child that their method is futile; and once proven wrong, the child becomes attentive to a new, fruitful method.

The fruitful method is the Spirit of God.

 

[Baroodi]

I can't, and wouldn't if I could, force you to believe otherwise.

This thread was about the difference in Christian perception of Jewish and Islamic theology, I've answered.

You did out of your believe, thanks

The God we know is one, was not begotten nor he begot any offspring
a Muslim is monotheist if he believe in the above in addition to
1/ Divinity of God; that is no one deserve to be worshiped or feared except God
2/ deity of God: to believe that all this universe and creatures are originated by God who control them and knows every bit of it ( With him are the keys to the unseen which no one knows except Him. And he knows whatever is in the earth or in the sea. Any leaf falling off (a tree), He knows about it. Not even a grain in the depths of the earth nor anything wet or dry, it is well inscribed) 06:60, Noble Quran
3/ monotheism of God names and characters; God has 99 names and special attributes. no one in this world can carry any of these name or can pretend to have similar characters. like knowing the unseen or resurrecting the dead people.
disbelieving in any of these or worshiping heathens/ pagans leads to polytheism. God can forgive any sin except polytheism.

 

[A Spirit Runs Through It]

Adultery is a crime with deleterious socioeconomic impact. I ask you in another way; Suppose you caught your wife somewhere having sex, what you will do? will you be able to sleep well? will you be able to go to work as usual? are you going to hug your kids as usual or you will say; Behold he may not be my son!

do you agree it is awful? and the ruler has to curb it and its effects by facilitating chastity under marriage?

Yes, adultery is harmful, and painful. But it should not be regulated by politicians: It should not become a political matter.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Compare these two passages concerning adultery, the first one being from the Quran, and the second one, from the New Testament:

"As for the adulterer and the adulteress, flog them each one hundred lashes, and let not pity for them overcome you concerning God’s Judgment, if you believe in God and the Last Day. And let their punishment be witnessed by a group of the believers (Q. 24:2)."

"Then each of them went home, while Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. Early in the morning he came again to the temple. All the people came to him and he sat down and began to teach them. The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery; and making her stand before all of them, they said to him, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery. Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" They said this to test him, so that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let anyone among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her." And once again he bent down and wrote on the ground. When they heard it, they went away, one by one, beginning with the elders; and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. Jesus straightened up and said to her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" She said, "No one, sir." And Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn you. Go your way, and from now on do not sin again (John 7:53–8:11)."

Now suppose you have committed adultery, and a mob has arrested you, dragging you before a judge to be sentenced: Which judge would you prefer to hear your case, Muhammad or Jesus?

The evil is evident, if one only considers the matter with a just mind. And this is but a drop in the bucket.

Before I respond shall I talk about eating shell fish?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Because it is a part of what they grew up with from a child. It is the same indoctrination process that makes Islamists believe in their religion. There is no difference in the process. When you understand why you believe what you do, you will also understand why people of all other religions believe what they do.

No argument there