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What is love?

Messianic Israelite

Active Member
I'm not going to make this thread a full analysis of what love is, at least in this original post, but I wanted to demonstrate something that I've seen in Yahweh's Law and reflect on what one aspect of love is. In Chr-stianity, love is preached quite a lot, but they refuse to back it up with the Law of Yahweh. As a result, the notion of love has become this mushy, half-baked idea of just a warm, fuzzy feeling one gets. Love is not defined. Indeed, trying to preach what love is without the Law of Yahweh is quite absurd but that's what Chr-stianity is doing. The dynamic power of the Holy Spirit is absent in Chr-stianity.

I was re-reading in the Law of Yahweh yesterday about the avenger of blood in Numbers 35:9-34. It's clear that if a person was guilty of manslaughter, it was his responsibility to get to a City of Refuge where he would be protected from what could be an 'avenger of blood'. The Cities of Refuge were six cities allocated to the Levite tribe in the Hebrew Scriptures that provided asylum for perpetrators of unintentional manslaughter. They offered protection until the case could be brought before a judge.

It's interesting that Yahweh has catered for those who have accidentally killed, but even more interesting that an avenger of blood is seemingly not ill spoken of in this passage. So I want you to really think. Do you ever want to avenge those who have been on the receiving end of sinful people? Because if you have, this 'avenging' is actually an attitude that Yahweh understands. Why? Because Yahweh is love. But Chr-stian ministers wouldn't understand this. They do not understand what love is. There is a deeper meaning to the Cities of Refuge which is that we also, who are guilty of sin, may find a safe haven in Yahshua, under the High Priest, from the avenger of blood, which could be symbolic of Yahweh. If Yahweh destroys one for sin, and they didn't make it to Yahshua, then the fault lies with the individual who should've speedily made their way to Yahshua / City of Refuge. The Cities of Refuge were run by the Levites and were where the Law was upheld, so anyone again, who thinks Yahshua came to do away with the Law are mistaken.

A few years back, some of you may remember a 23-year-old day care counsellor working for a religious day care centre who forced a 3-year-old child to have a sexual act with him. He was found out and came to court in handcuffs, shackles and a bullet proof vest. Why a bullet proof vest? The sheriff said they were erring on the side of caution because of "inappropriate remarks" that had been made. When members of my faith heard about this, we were indignant, that here confidence is put in to this person and he violates their confidence. I remember our Directing Elder of my faith saying, "how many of us who are fathers or grandfathers or great grandfathers have not read such accounts or heard such accounts in the media and wish we could take the law in to our own hands". You might consider such an attitude misguided, but we're not a violent people. But hearing about such evil, depraved people and the damage they leave in their wake makes us angry. A 3-year-old-child. And since that news story, there have been multiple such stories of evil perpetuated against the innocent. Things are getting worse.

So I'm looking at the Law in Numbers 35 and I realise that because we have feeling, because we love, this makes us feel like avenging those who cannot avenge themselves. And I realize this is the exact same way Yahweh feels. Now I'm not saying that if you hear someone being (say) murdered, you take a weapon of your choice, and you hunt them down. Yahweh has said "vengeance belongs to me, I will repay" (Deuteronomy 32:35) and especially those who have accepted Yahshua, we must practice self-control, one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), but I can certainly understand people who are inclined to avenge the innocent and in my mind, when someone commits a horrible sin like this, I want them to pay. Not with a slap on the wrist, a few years in prison, a smooch and release back in to society again, but we want them to pay for being so wicked and reprehensible, we want justice and sometimes that justice can only be appeased by the death penalty.

Yahweh revealed himself to Moses at the burning bush as a fire. Yahweh, like a fire, is very much alive. And so are His people. We hate injustice. But my question to you is, do you see love in the one who is an avenger of blood? And do you feel at all, are you sensitized when you hear about injustices such as murder, rape and other heinous crimes committed against innocent people and don't you care enough to want to do something about it yourself? Because in Chr-stianity, justice is not a word you hear often. It's all love. Yet if they were to look at the Law of Yahweh, they would realize that love comprises justice too and without a sense of justice, we really will fail to understand Yahweh's loving character.

What does Yahshua say in Matthew 23:23:
"“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—*justice*, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former."

Isn't this why so few people understand Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboim's destruction and other judgments, even judgments prophesied to take place at the end of the age? In the book of Revelation, we are told that judgments will result in blasphemies against Yahweh (Revelation 16:8-9). So really start thinking about what love really is and learn about it, not by listening to spiritually weak, sinful ministers who have an agenda, but by reading the Bible and listening to those who keep the Law.

As Isaiah 26:7 (read up to verse 10 for context) says:
"The way of the just is uprightness: thou that art upright dost direct the path of the just."

I expect to get a few objections to this post, but that's fine, I can handle it. There is love in justice and today,
"...the law is slacked, and justice doth never go forth; for the wicked doth compass about the righteous; therefore justice goeth forth perverted." (Habakkuk 1:4)
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
But my question to you is, do you see love in the one who is an avenger of blood?
No. I see human passion which is checked by the law of the cities of refuge. "Cursed be their anger, so fierce, and their fury, so cruel! I will scatter them in Jacob and disperse them in Israel." (Genesis 49:7)
 

Messianic Israelite

Active Member
No. I see human passion which is checked by the law of the cities of refuge. "Cursed be their anger, so fierce, and their fury, so cruel! I will scatter them in Jacob and disperse them in Israel." (Genesis 49:7)

Hi Brickjectivity. Good morning. Ever heard of righteous indignation? There were times when even Yahshua our Savior became angry. I know what you are referring to with your quote, but that was different. Levi and Simeon's anger resulted in killing a whole city (Genesis 34:25), which was wrong. And their anger was cursed by Jacob.
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
Hi Brickjectivity. Good morning. Ever heard of righteous indignation? There were times when even Yahshua our Savior became angry. I know what you are referring to with your quote, but that was different. Levi and Simeon's anger resulted in killing a whole city (Genesis 34:25), which was wrong. And their anger was cursed by Jacob.
I agree with removing evil permanently (though it is smarter to prevent it in the first place), but it’s not loving so much as being pragmatic.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
I'm not going to make this thread a full analysis of what love is, at least in this original post, but I wanted to demonstrate something that I've seen in Yahweh's Law and reflect on what one aspect of love is. In Chr-stianity, love is preached quite a lot, but they refuse to back it up with the Law of Yahweh. As a result, the notion of love has become this mushy, half-baked idea of just a warm, fuzzy feeling one gets. Love is not defined. Indeed, trying to preach what love is without the Law of Yahweh is quite absurd but that's what Chr-stianity is doing. The dynamic power of the Holy Spirit is absent in Chr-stianity.

I was re-reading in the Law of Yahweh yesterday about the avenger of blood in Numbers 35:9-34. It's clear that if a person was guilty of manslaughter, it was his responsibility to get to a City of Refuge where he would be protected from what could be an 'avenger of blood'. The Cities of Refuge were six cities allocated to the Levite tribe in the Hebrew Scriptures that provided asylum for perpetrators of unintentional manslaughter. They offered protection until the case could be brought before a judge.

It's interesting that Yahweh has catered for those who have accidentally killed, but even more interesting that an avenger of blood is seemingly not ill spoken of in this passage. So I want you to really think. Do you ever want to avenge those who have been on the receiving end of sinful people? Because if you have, this 'avenging' is actually an attitude that Yahweh understands. Why? Because Yahweh is love. But Chr-stian ministers wouldn't understand this. They do not understand what love is. There is a deeper meaning to the Cities of Refuge which is that we also, who are guilty of sin, may find a safe haven in Yahshua, under the High Priest, from the avenger of blood, which could be symbolic of Yahweh. If Yahweh destroys one for sin, and they didn't make it to Yahshua, then the fault lies with the individual who should've speedily made their way to Yahshua / City of Refuge. The Cities of Refuge were run by the Levites and were where the Law was upheld, so anyone again, who thinks Yahshua came to do away with the Law are mistaken.

A few years back, some of you may remember a 23-year-old day care counsellor working for a religious day care centre who forced a 3-year-old child to have a sexual act with him. He was found out and came to court in handcuffs, shackles and a bullet proof vest. Why a bullet proof vest? The sheriff said they were erring on the side of caution because of "inappropriate remarks" that had been made. When members of my faith heard about this, we were indignant, that here confidence is put in to this person and he violates their confidence. I remember our Directing Elder of my faith saying, "how many of us who are fathers or grandfathers or great grandfathers have not read such accounts or heard such accounts in the media and wish we could take the law in to our own hands". You might consider such an attitude misguided, but we're not a violent people. But hearing about such evil, depraved people and the damage they leave in their wake makes us angry. A 3-year-old-child. And since that news story, there have been multiple such stories of evil perpetuated against the innocent. Things are getting worse.

So I'm looking at the Law in Numbers 35 and I realise that because we have feeling, because we love, this makes us feel like avenging those who cannot avenge themselves. And I realize this is the exact same way Yahweh feels. Now I'm not saying that if you hear someone being (say) murdered, you take a weapon of your choice, and you hunt them down. Yahweh has said "vengeance belongs to me, I will repay" (Deuteronomy 32:35) and especially those who have accepted Yahshua, we must practice self-control, one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), but I can certainly understand people who are inclined to avenge the innocent and in my mind, when someone commits a horrible sin like this, I want them to pay. Not with a slap on the wrist, a few years in prison, a smooch and release back in to society again, but we want them to pay for being so wicked and reprehensible, we want justice and sometimes that justice can only be appeased by the death penalty.

Yahweh revealed himself to Moses at the burning bush as a fire. Yahweh, like a fire, is very much alive. And so are His people. We hate injustice. But my question to you is, do you see love in the one who is an avenger of blood? And do you feel at all, are you sensitized when you hear about injustices such as murder, rape and other heinous crimes committed against innocent people and don't you care enough to want to do something about it yourself? Because in Chr-stianity, justice is not a word you hear often. It's all love. Yet if they were to look at the Law of Yahweh, they would realize that love comprises justice too and without a sense of justice, we really will fail to understand Yahweh's loving character.

What does Yahshua say in Matthew 23:23:
"“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—*justice*, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former."

Isn't this why so few people understand Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboim's destruction and other judgments, even judgments prophesied to take place at the end of the age? In the book of Revelation, we are told that judgments will result in blasphemies against Yahweh (Revelation 16:8-9). So really start thinking about what love really is and learn about it, not by listening to spiritually weak, sinful ministers who have an agenda, but by reading the Bible and listening to those who keep the Law.

As Isaiah 26:7 (read up to verse 10 for context) says:
"The way of the just is uprightness: thou that art upright dost direct the path of the just."

I expect to get a few objections to this post, but that's fine, I can handle it. There is love in justice and today,
"...the law is slacked, and justice doth never go forth; for the wicked doth compass about the righteous; therefore justice goeth forth perverted." (Habakkuk 1:4)

there is no love in all the world as great as friendship

john 15:13


no matter what the relationship is, mother, father, sister, brother, acquaintance, stranger, et al., if it isn't friendly, it ain't love.

and that is why at the end jesus called his disciples, friend. john 15:15
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
I'm not going to make this thread a full analysis of what love is, at least in this original post, but I wanted to demonstrate something that I've seen in Yahweh's Law and reflect on what one aspect of love is. In Chr-stianity, love is preached quite a lot, but they refuse to back it up with the Law of Yahweh. As a result, the notion of love has become this mushy, half-baked idea of just a warm, fuzzy feeling one gets. Love is not defined. Indeed, trying to preach what love is without the Law of Yahweh is quite absurd but that's what Chr-stianity is doing. The dynamic power of the Holy Spirit is absent in Chr-stianity.

I was re-reading in the Law of Yahweh yesterday about the avenger of blood in Numbers 35:9-34. It's clear that if a person was guilty of manslaughter, it was his responsibility to get to a City of Refuge where he would be protected from what could be an 'avenger of blood'. The Cities of Refuge were six cities allocated to the Levite tribe in the Hebrew Scriptures that provided asylum for perpetrators of unintentional manslaughter. They offered protection until the case could be brought before a judge.

It's interesting that Yahweh has catered for those who have accidentally killed, but even more interesting that an avenger of blood is seemingly not ill spoken of in this passage. So I want you to really think. Do you ever want to avenge those who have been on the receiving end of sinful people? Because if you have, this 'avenging' is actually an attitude that Yahweh understands. Why? Because Yahweh is love. But Chr-stian ministers wouldn't understand this. They do not understand what love is. There is a deeper meaning to the Cities of Refuge which is that we also, who are guilty of sin, may find a safe haven in Yahshua, under the High Priest, from the avenger of blood, which could be symbolic of Yahweh. If Yahweh destroys one for sin, and they didn't make it to Yahshua, then the fault lies with the individual who should've speedily made their way to Yahshua / City of Refuge. The Cities of Refuge were run by the Levites and were where the Law was upheld, so anyone again, who thinks Yahshua came to do away with the Law are mistaken.

A few years back, some of you may remember a 23-year-old day care counsellor working for a religious day care centre who forced a 3-year-old child to have a sexual act with him. He was found out and came to court in handcuffs, shackles and a bullet proof vest. Why a bullet proof vest? The sheriff said they were erring on the side of caution because of "inappropriate remarks" that had been made. When members of my faith heard about this, we were indignant, that here confidence is put in to this person and he violates their confidence. I remember our Directing Elder of my faith saying, "how many of us who are fathers or grandfathers or great grandfathers have not read such accounts or heard such accounts in the media and wish we could take the law in to our own hands". You might consider such an attitude misguided, but we're not a violent people. But hearing about such evil, depraved people and the damage they leave in their wake makes us angry. A 3-year-old-child. And since that news story, there have been multiple such stories of evil perpetuated against the innocent. Things are getting worse.

So I'm looking at the Law in Numbers 35 and I realise that because we have feeling, because we love, this makes us feel like avenging those who cannot avenge themselves. And I realize this is the exact same way Yahweh feels. Now I'm not saying that if you hear someone being (say) murdered, you take a weapon of your choice, and you hunt them down. Yahweh has said "vengeance belongs to me, I will repay" (Deuteronomy 32:35) and especially those who have accepted Yahshua, we must practice self-control, one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), but I can certainly understand people who are inclined to avenge the innocent and in my mind, when someone commits a horrible sin like this, I want them to pay. Not with a slap on the wrist, a few years in prison, a smooch and release back in to society again, but we want them to pay for being so wicked and reprehensible, we want justice and sometimes that justice can only be appeased by the death penalty.

Yahweh revealed himself to Moses at the burning bush as a fire. Yahweh, like a fire, is very much alive. And so are His people. We hate injustice. But my question to you is, do you see love in the one who is an avenger of blood? And do you feel at all, are you sensitized when you hear about injustices such as murder, rape and other heinous crimes committed against innocent people and don't you care enough to want to do something about it yourself? Because in Chr-stianity, justice is not a word you hear often. It's all love. Yet if they were to look at the Law of Yahweh, they would realize that love comprises justice too and without a sense of justice, we really will fail to understand Yahweh's loving character.

What does Yahshua say in Matthew 23:23:
"“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—*justice*, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former."

Isn't this why so few people understand Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboim's destruction and other judgments, even judgments prophesied to take place at the end of the age? In the book of Revelation, we are told that judgments will result in blasphemies against Yahweh (Revelation 16:8-9). So really start thinking about what love really is and learn about it, not by listening to spiritually weak, sinful ministers who have an agenda, but by reading the Bible and listening to those who keep the Law.

As Isaiah 26:7 (read up to verse 10 for context) says:
"The way of the just is uprightness: thou that art upright dost direct the path of the just."

I expect to get a few objections to this post, but that's fine, I can handle it. There is love in justice and today,
"...the law is slacked, and justice doth never go forth; for the wicked doth compass about the righteous; therefore justice goeth forth perverted." (Habakkuk 1:4)
I take it, by Chr-stianity, you mean "Christianity", because true Christians - legit Christianity from God's standpoint do highlight justice, as working in harmony with love, and they do reference Numbers 35:9-34.

Love involves doing what is right.
In this world, this is lacking. Even though the authorities have the say, for now, on what justice is, it is oftentimes, not in sync with true justice. Romans 13:1-7

However, this world is temperary. True justice will prevails under God's rule. Isaiah 9:6-7
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
IMO, love is respecting all lives and helping others enjoy their time on Earth as best I can do. Hate no one, and to try and apply the Golden Rule as difficult as that is to do sometimes.
 

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
I'm not going to make this thread a full analysis of what love is, at least in this original post, but I wanted to demonstrate something that I've seen in Yahweh's Law and reflect on what one aspect of love is. In Chr-stianity, love is preached quite a lot, but they refuse to back it up with the Law of Yahweh. As a result, the notion of love has become this mushy, half-baked idea of just a warm, fuzzy feeling one gets. Love is not defined. Indeed, trying to preach what love is without the Law of Yahweh is quite absurd but that's what Chr-stianity is doing. The dynamic power of the Holy Spirit is absent in Chr-stianity.

I was re-reading in the Law of Yahweh yesterday about the avenger of blood in Numbers 35:9-34. It's clear that if a person was guilty of manslaughter, it was his responsibility to get to a City of Refuge where he would be protected from what could be an 'avenger of blood'. The Cities of Refuge were six cities allocated to the Levite tribe in the Hebrew Scriptures that provided asylum for perpetrators of unintentional manslaughter. They offered protection until the case could be brought before a judge.

It's interesting that Yahweh has catered for those who have accidentally killed, but even more interesting that an avenger of blood is seemingly not ill spoken of in this passage. So I want you to really think. Do you ever want to avenge those who have been on the receiving end of sinful people? Because if you have, this 'avenging' is actually an attitude that Yahweh understands. Why? Because Yahweh is love. But Chr-stian ministers wouldn't understand this. They do not understand what love is. There is a deeper meaning to the Cities of Refuge which is that we also, who are guilty of sin, may find a safe haven in Yahshua, under the High Priest, from the avenger of blood, which could be symbolic of Yahweh. If Yahweh destroys one for sin, and they didn't make it to Yahshua, then the fault lies with the individual who should've speedily made their way to Yahshua / City of Refuge. The Cities of Refuge were run by the Levites and were where the Law was upheld, so anyone again, who thinks Yahshua came to do away with the Law are mistaken.

A few years back, some of you may remember a 23-year-old day care counsellor working for a religious day care centre who forced a 3-year-old child to have a sexual act with him. He was found out and came to court in handcuffs, shackles and a bullet proof vest. Why a bullet proof vest? The sheriff said they were erring on the side of caution because of "inappropriate remarks" that had been made. When members of my faith heard about this, we were indignant, that here confidence is put in to this person and he violates their confidence. I remember our Directing Elder of my faith saying, "how many of us who are fathers or grandfathers or great grandfathers have not read such accounts or heard such accounts in the media and wish we could take the law in to our own hands". You might consider such an attitude misguided, but we're not a violent people. But hearing about such evil, depraved people and the damage they leave in their wake makes us angry. A 3-year-old-child. And since that news story, there have been multiple such stories of evil perpetuated against the innocent. Things are getting worse.

So I'm looking at the Law in Numbers 35 and I realise that because we have feeling, because we love, this makes us feel like avenging those who cannot avenge themselves. And I realize this is the exact same way Yahweh feels. Now I'm not saying that if you hear someone being (say) murdered, you take a weapon of your choice, and you hunt them down. Yahweh has said "vengeance belongs to me, I will repay" (Deuteronomy 32:35) and especially those who have accepted Yahshua, we must practice self-control, one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), but I can certainly understand people who are inclined to avenge the innocent and in my mind, when someone commits a horrible sin like this, I want them to pay. Not with a slap on the wrist, a few years in prison, a smooch and release back in to society again, but we want them to pay for being so wicked and reprehensible, we want justice and sometimes that justice can only be appeased by the death penalty.

Yahweh revealed himself to Moses at the burning bush as a fire. Yahweh, like a fire, is very much alive. And so are His people. We hate injustice. But my question to you is, do you see love in the one who is an avenger of blood? And do you feel at all, are you sensitized when you hear about injustices such as murder, rape and other heinous crimes committed against innocent people and don't you care enough to want to do something about it yourself? Because in Chr-stianity, justice is not a word you hear often. It's all love. Yet if they were to look at the Law of Yahweh, they would realize that love comprises justice too and without a sense of justice, we really will fail to understand Yahweh's loving character.

What does Yahshua say in Matthew 23:23:
"“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—*justice*, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former."

Isn't this why so few people understand Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboim's destruction and other judgments, even judgments prophesied to take place at the end of the age? In the book of Revelation, we are told that judgments will result in blasphemies against Yahweh (Revelation 16:8-9). So really start thinking about what love really is and learn about it, not by listening to spiritually weak, sinful ministers who have an agenda, but by reading the Bible and listening to those who keep the Law.

As Isaiah 26:7 (read up to verse 10 for context) says:
"The way of the just is uprightness: thou that art upright dost direct the path of the just."

I expect to get a few objections to this post, but that's fine, I can handle it. There is love in justice and today,
"...the law is slacked, and justice doth never go forth; for the wicked doth compass about the righteous; therefore justice goeth forth perverted." (Habakkuk 1:4)
First no one keeps the law. It's impossible. Second yes, Christians understand God's love. We have the same scripture you have.
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
When Jesus said "Love your enemies," and "Turn the other cheek," I don't think he meant, "Get revenge on them."
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
First no one keeps the law. It's impossible. Second yes, Christians understand God's love. We have the same scripture you have.
actually the law is simple. it's to love. that is the whole of the law.

proverbs 10:12

that is the reason said a new commandment i give you, love one another as i have loved you.

love is perfect
 

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
actually the law is simple. it's to love. that is the whole of the law.

proverbs 10:12

that is the reason said a new commandment i give you, love one another as i have loved you.

love is perfect
I don't think he was talking about that law.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
I don't think he was talking about that law.
TheLaw.JPG
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I'm not going to make this thread a full analysis of what love is, at least in this original post, but I wanted to demonstrate something that I've seen in Yahweh's Law and reflect on what one aspect of love is. In Chr-stianity, love is preached quite a lot, but they refuse to back it up with the Law of Yahweh. As a result, the notion of love has become this mushy, half-baked idea of just a warm, fuzzy feeling one gets. Love is not defined. Indeed, trying to preach what love is without the Law of Yahweh is quite absurd but that's what Chr-stianity is doing. The dynamic power of the Holy Spirit is absent in Chr-stianity.

That's quite a statement. No supportive documentation or how this is true. As a Christian, I don't see love as mushy and certainly don't believe it's definition is a feeling. Personally, I find the dynamic power of the Holy Spirit very present.

Could it be your are thinking of a subset of the Body of Christ that calls themselves Christians?
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Hi Brickjectivity. Good morning. Ever heard of righteous indignation? There were times when even Yahshua our Savior became angry. I know what you are referring to with your quote, but that was different. Levi and Simeon's anger resulted in killing a whole city (Genesis 34:25), which was wrong. And their anger was cursed by Jacob.
I am assuming the avenger of blood is someone that is angry and wants to kill someone that has caused the death. You seem to think it is an official or someone appointed to the task of vengeance, someone less passionately involved in the death.
 
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