What is More Important?

[psychoslice]

I would like to agree.
but let me be humble instead.

He didn't want a crown on His head....neither do I.
He spoke of Himself as brother and fellow servant.
If he speaks of me in that way.....I shall have such great relief!

Who cares how he speaks to you, its what you feel within your self that truly matters, he was just a catalyst, use he's pointers and drop them after you yourself have awakened.

 

[sojourner]

Taking Jesus as one's savior, but being a selfish *******.
​

OR

Living a compassionate, giving life, but rejecting Jesus as one's savior?

​

And no in-between stuff, or claims that one couldn't take Jesus as one's savior and be a selfish *******---I've run into such characters.


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Jesus said, "Do as I do."

 

[jojom]

Jesus said, "Do as I do."

So you've been turning water into wine?

 

[sojourner]

So you've been turning water into wine?

Humanity does miracles all the time. You think putting men on the moon and bringing them safely back to earth isn't miraculous?

 

[jojom]

Humanity does miracles all the time. You think putting men on the moon and bringing them safely back to earth isn't miraculous?

I don't recall Jesus putting anyone on the Moon. In any case, been walking on water lately?


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[sojourner]

I don't recall Jesus putting anyone on the Moon. In any case, been walking on water lately?


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Miracles aren't what Jesus taught, are they?! What Jesus taught was relationships. Jesus taught kindness, forbearance, hospitality, forgiveness, humility, compassion, mercy, and justice.

 

[jojom]

Miracles aren't what Jesus taught, are they?! What Jesus taught was relationships. Jesus taught kindness, forbearance, hospitality, forgiveness, humility, compassion, mercy, and justice.

"Taught"? No one was talking about anyone teaching anything. Please stay on track. Just two questions.

What was your point in saying, "Jesus said, 'Do as I do' "? Because among the things he did was to turn water into wine and walk on water. Or should Jesus have said "Do some of the things as I do"?


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[Servant_of_the_One1]

Taking Jesus as one's savior, but being a selfish *******.
​

OR

Living a compassionate, giving life, but rejecting Jesus as one's savior?

​

And no in-between stuff, or claims that one couldn't take Jesus as one's savior and be a selfish *******---I've run into such characters.


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The second option is closer to the truth.
Because accepting Jesus as god or divine is itself falsehood.

 

[sojourner]

"Taught"? No one was talking about anyone teaching anything. Please stay on track. Just two questions.

What was your point in saying, "Jesus said, 'Do as I do' "? Because among the things he did was to turn water into wine and walk on water. Or should Jesus have said "Do some of the things as I do"?


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You're being obtuse. When Jesus taught, he said, "Do the things I do." (IOW: show mercy, compassion, do hospitality, be forbearing and forgiving, do justice).

 

[jojom]

You're being obtuse. When Jesus taught, he said, "Do the things I do." (IOW: show mercy, compassion, do hospitality, be forbearing and forgiving, do justice).

Still waiting for your answers.

1) What was your point in saying, "Jesus said, 'Do as I do' "?

2) Should Jesus have said "Do some of the things as I do"?
​

Oh yes, what is the chapter and verse for Jesus saying "Do the things I do"?


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[sojourner]

1) What was your point in saying, "Jesus said, 'Do as I do' "?

The point is that actions are more important than beliefs.

2) Should Jesus have said "Do some of the things as I do"?

Should you stop being obtuse?

 

[jojom]

The point is that actions are more important than beliefs.

Fine; Doing the right thing takes precedence over taking Jesus as one's savior. But I'm still curious as to why Jesus would say "Do as I do " when, according to you, he really meant "Do some of the things as I do." Any clue?

And, I'm still waiting for the chapter and verse for Jesus saying "Do the things I do."


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[Unification]

Well, I don't see it that way, but believe He has and does make His message known everywhere to everyone...And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” Luke 12:32

How does one lift up a human being that is no longer here, off of the planet earth?

Sounds more like The Christ isn't a literal guy, but more like a gravitational pull of light or electromagnetic energy resurrected in ones brain, and that light received as photons into all uninhabited parts of the brain.

You're only hindrance I believe is seeing the Christ as a literal guy, and if he was a literal guy, he had to have sacrificed something making him not a literal guy any longer. Then what did he sacrifice and what did he become? Seeing Christ as a literal guy creates all sorts of division and things that just don't make sense.

I know you've felt the presence and change in your life, that is clear to me. I hope that you'll take the time to see how you can expand on what "in Christ" truly means, outside of limitations to doctrine and dogma, and how you can better serve others, because Jesus as a literal guy doesn't win any souls. The mind that "God" has given beings is much wiser and intelligent than that nowadays since more truth and life has been revealed into brains.

 

[dogfishparisi]

Taking Jesus as one's savior, but being a selfish *******.
​

OR

Living a compassionate, giving life, but rejecting Jesus as one's savior?

​

And no in-between stuff, or claims that one couldn't take Jesus as one's savior and be a selfish *******---I've run into such characters.


.

Well, the crux of the dilemma here is that if you are a good, empathetic, loving person, who strives to live a good life you would be remiss to deny the teachings of Christ. You don't need to believe concretely like a fundamentalist but you definitely should not REJECT Christ if you see the truth in His teachings. Truth is all around us, in many forms, to reject it (no matter the packaging) is to be dishonest to oneself. Sooooo... It is impossible to reject Christ if you are a good person. Even if you intellectually reason some type of rejection your heart will override it and you will act in accordance with his teachings. Even if you are not aware. So, basically, if you are good and loving Christ speaks to you (according to scripture ) and you are saved.

 

[jojom]

Well, the crux of the dilemma here is that if you are a good, empathetic, loving person, who strives to live a good life you would be remiss to deny the teachings of Christ. You don't need to believe concretely like a fundamentalist but you definitely should not REJECT Christ if you see the truth in His teachings. Truth is all around us, in many forms, to reject it (no matter the packaging) is to be dishonest to oneself.

You do recognize, do you not, that a whole lot of people don't find the arguments for Jesus compelling at all, and feel more than justified in rejecting him. And a lot of these people are just as you describe: good, empathetic, loving people, who strives to live a good life.

Sooooo... It is impossible to reject Christ if you are a good person.

Boy, if this isn't a pile of self-serving claptrap.

Even if you intellectually reason some type of rejection your heart will override it and you will act in accordance with his teachings. Even if you are not aware. So, basically, if you are good and loving Christ speaks to you (according to scripture ) and you are saved.

Pulpit platitudes like this are real stomach turners.

Please stop.


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[dogfishparisi]

You do recognize, do you not, that a whole lot of people don't find the arguments for Jesus compelling at all, and feel more than justified in rejecting him. And a lot of these people are just as you describe: good, empathetic, loving people, who strives to live a good life.

Boy, if this isn't a pile of self-serving claptrap.

Pulpit platitudes like this are real stomach turners.

Please stop.


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Haha, you're funny. If you separate the teachings of Christ from the rest of scripture you'd realize that those who act Christ-like are synonymous with non-judgemental, loving, empathetic, and so much more... the current war on religion wants you to miss the fact that all your heart tells you is synonymous with what Christ taught. Christ's teachings, not religions, are perfect... study scripture and come back to this discussion. Wether Christian or not it is impossible to refute Christ's words, unless you have been deceived. Is he the Savior? I think so, but will not begrudge anyone who thinks differently... especially those who are good- by there own merits, aside from a religious teacher.

 

[jojom]

Haha, you're funny. If you separate the teachings of Christ from the rest of scripture you'd realize that those who act Christ-like are synonymous with non-judgemental, loving, empathetic, and so much more...

Sorry, but your argument that because all apples are fruits therefore all fruits are apples is appallingly bad.

the current war on religion wants you to miss the fact that all your heart tells you is synonymous with what Christ taught. Christ's teachings, not religions, are perfect...

War on religion! More fundie rhetoric to rouse the troops. And while it doesn't impress, it is amusing.

study scripture and come back to this discussion.

May as well study astrology, besides, I know enough about it to take a pass. And just because I don't agree with you therefore I don't know as much or more than you do is shameful arrogance, although it certainly isn't uncommon among fundie Christians: "If only you read scripture correctly like I do you'd see the light." This old piece of shop worn bombastic flatulence doesn't deserve resurrection.

Wether Christian or not it is impossible to refute Christ's words, unless you have been deceived.

Deceived by reason no less.

Is he the Savior? I think so, but will not begrudge anyone who thinks differently... especially those who are good- by there own merits, aside from a religious teacher.

How can we ever thank you for your kind generosity? At least those of us who are good by our own merits. Everyone else, DUCK! Dogfishparisi is out to begrudge you.

 

[dogfishparisi]

Sorry, but your argument that because all apples are fruits therefore all fruits are apples is appallingly bad.


War on religion! More fundie rhetoric to rouse the troops. And while it doesn't impress, it is amusing.

May as well study astrology, besides, I know enough about it to take a pass. And just because I don't agree with you therefore I don't know as much or more than you do is shameful arrogance, although it certainly isn't uncommon among fundie Christians: "If only you read scripture correctly like I do you'd see the light." This old piece of shop worn bombastic flatulence doesn't deserve resurrection.

Deceived by reason no less.

How can we ever thank you for your kind generosity? At least those of us who are good by our own merits. Everyone else, DUCK! Dogfishparisi is out to begrudge you.

You are funny. Fundie rhetoric? I'm not even close. You're projecting so fast I can't keep up.

The point is this; all good people, who are loving and empathetic and strive to be good and help others should not REJECT teachings that tell them what they know in their hearts already.
Do I think people need to accept Christ? Not exactly- because it's not about scripture and acceptance, it's about free will decisions in this life.
This thread seeks to answer questions and I am providing an opinion. I believe that rejection; total non-acceptance, is intellectually dishonest when one knows that they align with their own moral compass. I also study Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism and many more so relax there tiger- I'm not a fundamentalist.
Answers are all around us and inside us. You'd be mistaken not to seek them out and instead be skeptical to the point of denial. Healthy skepticism fuels rational discourse and thought, but there's a level where it walls of possibility and imagination.

Your saying that you might as well study astrology... and you know enough to take a pass... is enough for me to see you are heavily biased against religion.

 

[BenTheBeliever]

Taking Jesus as one's savior, but being a selfish *******.
​

OR

Living a compassionate, giving life, but rejecting Jesus as one's savior?

​

And no in-between stuff, or claims that one couldn't take Jesus as one's savior and be a selfish *******---I've run into such characters.


.

For a Christian Jesus will always be the answer. Of course if a person truly is change by God you'll be able to tell by their fruits

 

[jojom]

You are funny. Fundie rhetoric? I'm not even close. You're projecting so fast I can't keep up.

If you're not a fundie you certainly talk like one.

The point is this; all good people, who are loving and empathetic and strive to be good and help others should not REJECT teachings that tell them what they know in their hearts already.

And what of those who have nothing telling them "what they know in their hearts already"? Your presumption is repugnant.

Do I think people need to accept Christ? Not exactly- because it's not about scripture and acceptance, it's about free will decisions in this life.

FYI for future reference, I don't believe there's such a thing as free will.

This thread seeks to answer questions and I am providing an opinion. I believe that rejection; total non-acceptance, is intellectually dishonest when one knows that they align with their own moral compass.

And I think it's intellectually dishonest to ignore reason if favor of some feel-good pleasure one gets from latching onto a belief.

Answers are all around us and inside us. You'd be mistaken not to seek them out and instead be skeptical to the point of denial. Healthy skepticism fuels rational discourse and thought, but there's a level where it walls of possibility and imagination.

Say again?

Your saying that you might as well study astrology... and you know enough to take a pass... is enough for me to see you are heavily biased against religion.

Only toward the underpinnings of religion: unquestioning faith in the warmth and security of promise.


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