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What is Sampradaya?

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I use this word on occasion, and figure its time for a more detailed explanation. Sampradaya is something like ghee. You boil everything down until that is all there is remaining. Here are some random thoughts, not well organised.

So a sampradaya is the narrow view, but not one in disrespect to other views, just narrow enough so that meditation, philosophy, and worship, are disciplined, one-pointed, and not wavering outside of that particular esoteric practice and philosophy. Philosophically, the idea is to narrow it down so that there are no contradictions remaining ... whatsoever. So people of one sampradaya, but more particularly one monastic community, are often said to be of one mind. The physical bodies operating within that one mind are varied but the mind is one.

Sampradaya is the heart of Hinduism, for without it, the sages wouldn't have been able to toss out all the extraneous stuff to get to what they got ... nirvikalpa samadhi. So another comparison is the magnifying glass when used to light a fire. The energy, the will is all on one goal, on one path, and within that you get the heat.

Most Hindus are more generalist than any one sampradaya and many Hindu Gurus are more generalist, have written books, but have little time for one on one personal teaching. In the sampradaya system, The Guru knows each sishya by name, and its a one on one tutorial practically. Individual needs are both recognised and met.

Surviving sampradayas and the paramparas within them are also Guru lineages, many reaching back in unbroken succession to the Vedic era. The Satgurus of sampradays are living, not deceased, and will always appoint a successor. Many make that very crystal clear before any mahasamadhi event. There are many, each different than the next. Most are quite small, practically by definition, certainly by necessity. They rarely advertise or promote, and are really a number of Guru-shishya relationships. In sampradaya the teaching is clear. When in doubt, ask the Guru. This is the Hindu way ... at least within the many valid oness still thriving.
 
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Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Sampradāya: sect, cult, custom, bestower, any peculiar or sectarian system of religious teaching, traditional belief or usage, wont, presenter, traditional observance, established doctrine transmitted from one teacher to another, tradition (http://spokensanskrit.de/)
sampradAya: m. a bestower , presenter S3a1rn3gP. ; tradition , established doctrine transmitted from one teacher to another , traditional belief or usage Gr2S3rS. &c. &c. ; any peculiar or sectarian system of religious teaching , sect RTL. 61 ; 62 ; %{-candrikA} f. N. of wk. ; %{-tas} ind. according to tradition MW. ; %{-nirUpaNa} n. %{-paddhati} f. %{-parizuddhi} f. %{-prakAzinI} , f. %{-pradIpa} m. %{-pradIpa-paddhati} f. N. of wks. ; %{-pradyotaka} m. a revealer of the tradition of the Veda , Kusum. ; %{-prA7pta} mfn. obtained through tradition MW. ; %{-vigama} m. want or loss of tradition S3is3. ; %{-vid} m. one versed in traditional doctrines or usages Sa1y. (http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/scans/MWScan/tamil/index.html)
Strangely, did not find it in Apte, Sanskrit to English.

Aup.: Some learning given in a tradition, lineage. Pradāya: Given
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
The value of sampradaya came clear o me today again as we had a discussion with a friend at the temple. She had been at another temple and asked the priest there about growing tulasi in her home. He'd informed her that if meat was eaten in the home, she shouldn't be growing it. She didn't really like the answer, and her plant is doing well. So she asked our priest, and he said to grow ahead and grow it. Then she talked to Boss, and heard that it was all okay. So the point is that we get conflicting advice, even as Hindus. For non-Hindus it is another matter altogether. It seems all too tiring some days to explain our vastness, when someone says, 'Well, I know this Hindu, and he said _____________", or "I read this book, and it said ______________". 5o 'counselors' and 50 different pieces of advice.

Do we go to one doctor or do we go to 50?

So my question is ... when faced with the challenge of a person asking you something that they already think they have an answer to, but your answer is different, what do you say. How can we help this individual top be less upset. confused, etc.

One example I've been getting lately is about monotheism in Hinduism, and people insisting that all Hindus are strictly monotheistic. The explanation that Hinduism is vast and there are differing views doesn't seem to cut it. Yes, Aup, I even say that Hinduism includes atheists. I know for some Hindus that is hard, but for non-Hindus its even harder.
 

Fireside_Hindu

Jai Lakshmi Maa
The value of sampradaya came clear o me today again as we had a discussion with a friend at the temple. She had been at another temple and asked the priest there about growing tulasi in her home. He'd informed her that if meat was eaten in the home, she shouldn't be growing it. She didn't really like the answer, and her plant is doing well. So she asked our priest, and he said to grow ahead and grow it. Then she talked to Boss, and heard that it was all okay. So the point is that we get conflicting advice, even as Hindus. For non-Hindus it is another matter altogether. It seems all too tiring some days to explain our vastness, when someone says, 'Well, I know this Hindu, and he said _____________", or "I read this book, and it said ______________". 5o 'counselors' and 50 different pieces of advice.

Do we go to one doctor or do we go to 50?

So my question is ... when faced with the challenge of a person asking you something that they already think they have an answer to, but your answer is different, what do you say. How can we help this individual top be less upset. confused, etc.

One example I've been getting lately is about monotheism in Hinduism, and people insisting that all Hindus are strictly monotheistic. The explanation that Hinduism is vast and there are differing views doesn't seem to cut it. Yes, Aup, I even say that Hinduism includes atheists. I know for some Hindus that is hard, but for non-Hindus its even harder.


With the doctor analogy, one could say that, for important issues, one would seek a second opinion - ie. get another view of things, if nothing else to understand that there is indeed vastness to it all. The problems comes when one tries to heed the advice and take the medicine of all the doctors one sees, rather then reaching a conscientious on one course of treatment in the end.

When people ask me about this or that issues in Hinduism, I give them my view but then advice them to ask more people from temple who may have different or more expansive knowledge. That's really all you can do. Sometimes, people are looking for contradictions in order to create an argument or get smug. I try to end those conversations as fast as possible. Others are just interested or confused, and/or curious.
 

Fireside_Hindu

Jai Lakshmi Maa
I myself am trying to see if narrowing in on a specific school would be good for me. Its tough finding that guidance and a guru one can trust. I see the benefit of it, but also know many, many Hindus do without it
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
With the doctor analogy, one could say that, for important issues, one would seek a second opinion - ie. get another view of things, if nothing else to understand that there is indeed vastness to it all. The problems comes when one tries to heed the advice and take the medicine of all the doctors one sees, rather then reaching a conscientious on one course of treatment in the end.

When people ask me about this or that issues in Hinduism, I give them my view but then advice them to ask more people from temple who may have different or more expansive knowledge. That's really all you can do. Sometimes, people are looking for contradictions in order to create an argument or get smug. I try to end those conversations as fast as possible. Others are just interested or confused, and/or curious.

Thanks for your response, FS. When I reflect back on it, it's really just one woman trying to find her way. Boss and I are quite accessible in that we will answer stuff, and she's sort of lonely I think, so she probably asks a few people. Maybe next time I'll point her to Ganesha.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Yes, Aup, I even say that Hinduism includes atheists. I know for some Hindus that is hard, but for non-Hindus its even harder.
Tulasi is nurtured and worshiped in all Kashmiri brahmin households and we are fiercely non-vegetarian except for some old people (Oh yeah, my elder grandson does not relish mutton curry. Surprising! Is it not? A Kashmiri not liking Roghanjosh. But he has no problem with KFC fare). Being a non-vegetarian does not mean that I cannot worship Rama and Krishna. Of course, on special days non-vegetarian fare is to be avoided. For example, Nirjala Ekadashi tomorrow. Then the month of Shravana (starting July 19), and then the Navaratras when we will abstain from it.
 
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Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Good thing my friend doesn't talk to you as well, it would only confuse her more. She is Punjabi Hindu married to Kerala Christian. (a very tolerant one) At least she is a vegetarian, and very regular temple goer.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
She should make her own decision. Listen to the 'antaryami' sitting in her heart. She will get the best advice.
 

shivsomashekhar

Well-Known Member
Tulasi is nurtured and worshiped in all Kashmiri brahmin households and we are fiercely non-vegetarian except for some old people (Oh yeah, my elder grandson does not relish mutton curry. Surprising! Is it not? A Kashmiri not liking Roghanjosh. But he has no problem with KFC fare). Being a non-vegetarian does not mean that I cannot worship Rama and Krishna. Of course, on special days non-vegetarian fare is to be avoided. For example, Nirjala Ekadashi tomorrow. Then the month of Shravana (starting July 19), and then the Navaratras when we will abstain from it.

Aup, I was not aware that Kashmiri Brahmins eat meat.

Are there any Vaishnava Kahmiri Brahmins and if so, do they also eat meat?
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
All Kashmiri Brahmins worship Rama and Krishna, and most are non-vegetarian. Some accept vegetarianism in old age. It is possible that some following Kashmir Shaivism may be vegetarian, I am not much aware of that. There may be a few who are involved with Hare-Krishnas (they will surely have abandoned non-vegetarian food). Other Vaishnava traditions are practically unknown to Kashmiri brahmins except academically. A vegetarian Kashmiri brahmin (male or female) is an oddity.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Tulasi is nurtured and worshiped in all Kashmiri brahmin households and we are fiercely non-vegetarian except for some old people (Oh yeah, my elder grandson does not relish mutton curry. Surprising! Is it not? A Kashmiri not liking Roghanjosh. But he has no problem with KFC fare). Being a non-vegetarian does not mean that I cannot worship Rama and Krishna. Of course, on special days non-vegetarian fare is to be avoided. For example, Nirjala Ekadashi tomorrow. Then the month of Shravana (starting July 19), and then the Navaratras when we will abstain from it.

I have not yet become vegetarian, but I wear tulsi AND rudrāksha kanthi mālā-s :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: you say! Why do I? No, I am not tweaking the noses of the gods; my concerns were allayed when I read comments that state that everyone can wear tulsi, and should, as it does bring one closer to God.

For example, http://www.sanskritimagazine.com/in...tance-of-wearing-tulasi-mala-in-hindu-dharma/ Just Google who can wear tulsi mala Compared to a comment I saw years ago "In my humble opinion that would be highly appropriate as seeing a person wearing a kanthi mala and eating meat is unthinkable". Lord Shiva himself said to Mā Pārvatī that everyone should wear rudrāksha (I wish I could remember where I saw that). Who am I to gainsay Lord Shiva? ;)

Well, 1 billion Hindus, 3 billion opinions.

Btw, when I got the e-mail from Vaishnava Calendar Service that Wed. was Nirjala Ekadashi I was torn between hiding under the bed, or getting into bed and pulling the covers over my head. I fast on most Ekadashi but this one scared the peanuts out of my M&Ms... I could not go all day without liquids.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Then don't. Even my wife does not fast on Nirjala. But I did remember my ancestors, father and a brother whom we lost and kept a certain amount towards charity, after having my bath and before breakfast. I am comfortable with that routine.
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
I am taking a simple approach. Isn't sampraday and parampara sort of the same? We can look at a sheet of music.

Now we have these special things handed down, typically going back to a God. It does not need to be the Same God as perhaps the focus of the sect or school.

I will get back to the sheet of music - in a second. But.

We have the sect such as a Vaishnav one that worships Krsna. Now this teaching comes down from one Guru to the next and so on - but NOT from Krishna! in this example there is this school or Sampradaya that has a lineage Guru to the next that started with Lord Brahma afterwards losing the Fifth Head, down, gurudev to the next, worshipping Krishna not Brahma but Four Headed was the FIRST of that school so that lineage is the parampara. Down, down, down, from the sky, sometime then to a human, but YOU CANNOT JUST BE A GURU from that SCHOOL or Sampraday, you must he chusen from the one BEFORE YOU thus the sampradaya is the school of the sound, it is the SOUNDS but the handing down is the parampara - the sounds might VARY but it is ONE SONG but they are WRITTEN as marks on the sheet of music along STRAIGHT LINES like this:

decisive_battle_1.gif


so... the marks may vary and they are the sampradaya, but they are marked along straight lines which is the parampara guru to guru - the marks vary but ONE SONG overall... that is all.
deci
 

Shantanu

Well-Known Member
I use this word on occasion, and figure its time for a more detailed explanation. Sampradaya is something like ghee. You boil everything down until that is all there is remaining. Here are some random thoughts, not well organised.

So a sampradaya is the narrow view, but not one in disrespect to other views, just narrow enough so that meditation, philosophy, and worship, are disciplined, one-pointed, and not wavering outside of that particular esoteric practice and philosophy. Philosophically, the idea is to narrow it down so that there are no contradictions remaining ... whatsoever. So people of one sampradaya, but more particularly one monastic community, are often said to be of one mind. The physical bodies operating within that one mind are varied but the mind is one.

Sampradaya is the heart of Hinduism, for without it, the sages wouldn't have been able to toss out all the extraneous stuff to get to what they got ... nirvikalpa samadhi. So another comparison is the magnifying glass when used to light a fire. The energy, the will is all on one goal, on one path, and within that you get the heat.

Most Hindus are more generalist than any one sampradaya and many Hindu Gurus are more generalist, have written books, but have little time for one on one personal teaching. In the sampradaya system, The Guru knows each sishya by name, and its a one on one tutorial practically. Individual needs are both recognised and met.

Surviving sampradayas and the paramparas within them are also Guru lineages, many reaching back in unbroken succession to the Vedic era. The Satgurus of sampradays are living, not deceased, and will always appoint a successor. Many make that very crystal clear before any mahasamadhi event. There are many, each different than the next. Most are quite small, practically by definition, certainly by necessity. They rarely advertise or promote, and are really a number of Guru-shishya relationships. In sampradaya the teaching is clear. When in doubt, ask the Guru. This is the Hindu way ... at least within the many valid oness still thriving.
If you use cows milk there is only one type of ghee that will be produced that will have a particular taste and cooking properties. From the same milk if differnent types of ghees are produced it means that the person is adding something to the process that is not part of the substance of the universe.:)
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Then don't. Even my wife does not fast on Nirjala. But I did remember my ancestors, father and a brother whom we lost and kept a certain amount towards charity, after having my bath and before breakfast. I am comfortable with that routine.

I missed this post, sorry. Yeah, I didn't do the fast. I could have skipped my meds for one day and given it a try, but not knowing the effect it might have by the time I had to drive home (30 miles, 50-55 mins.) after a day at work, I don't think it would be a good idea. For the next one I might take the day off from work, stay home, quiet, and try the fast. I think that's the idea anyway... quiet reflection and dedication to God.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Jai, please note, meds are not contraindicated in any kind of fast whatsoever. Exempted. Hinduism is/should be practical.

Yes, you're right. Thanks for reminding me... you know I'm an all-or-nothing person (working on that :)). The gods don't ask us to suffer in the name of devotion.
 
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