What is the difference between faith and thought?

[amorphous_constellation]

It seems that faith' seems to be something that just happens in one's head, in the same way as a random or intended thought would. The moment you have faith in a god, or anything, doesn't seem to be markedly distinct as a brain based thinking activity, as would you were to think of a chair, or think of a fish, whether doing that was random or intended.

And so if you say, 'I believe in God,' with great enthusiasm, how is that neurologically different than if you were to say, 'I believe in the chair,' or 'I believe in the fish,' with great enthusiasm.

Sure, you might be vest the idea of God with special importance, and probably more importance than you would vest in your idea of the chair, or the fish. So then, faith might be a measure of importance - but in the same way that a thought is not physically visible, it doesn't seem like the measure of importance that any thought has, is physically very visible, or measurable.

An 'act of faith' can seem to be display the importance you have in your thoughts, but that still doesn't seem to show us what the literal importance of your thought was. You might of had a thought that god exists, but you might joined that thought with a separate thought about how important that is, which seems to mean that imagined the first thought to be important, with the second one. So then that begs the question, if any single thought has intrinsic importance

Or if in all instances, of thought, you must join an original thought with the importance that is imagined in separate thoughts, that are then joined to the original. Your education about what god is, doesn't occur in a vacuum. But all cases, it all seems to be just an exercise in brain activity

 

[1213]

It seems that faith' seems to be something that just happens in one's head,...

Bible shows faith means faithfulness/loyalty. For example Noah was faithful to God and built the ark.

By faith, Noah, being warned about things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his house, through which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
Heb. 11:7

It is a decision to trust God and do His will.

 

[christos]

I see things a bit differently

See to me thinking a chair exists, doesn’t occur to me often, I typically am uncertain of the chairs existence



Legitimately, this is a sort of subconscious thought I sometimes have

I see a chair and I think the chair is mostly void, there’s virtually no matter there, and so the chair mostly doesn’t exist

When I sit on the chair it’s solid because of molecular interaction, I feel it because of the electron interactions

But in a sense it’s somewhat illusionary

My brain is constructing an interpretation of the realm outside it

To go really far in the rabbit hole, everything is energy and waves and so all I’m seeing is the probability of a chair collapsing into chair

The light is just waves my eyes are decoding that are coming off of this nearly non existent thing

(I know right… Mental! )



But regardless of all of that… I act as though objects like chairs are real and I have previous experience in the laws of the universe, a belief that I won’t just fall through the chair (all though there is a tiny chance I can quantum tunnel through)

Infact it’s vital for my survival to treat reality as real as otherwise I’d probably be dead, slightly odd to think both at the same time

Reality is real and also not real to some degree



You see to me, belief is a statement of uncertainty akin to assumption

I believe the universe exists
Well there’s no independent observer or measurement of that, so how do we prove the universe exists?

I believe I can learn something about the universe
Well if the universes existence is unprovable, then how can I prove I’m learning something?



But faith…
Faith is a bit different for me…
For me, faith is an inner knowing, it’s belief but it’s certain
Faith is harder for me to convey

 

[Arnaud1221]

The difference between a cat and animal. Cat is an animal. Faith is a mind state that you trust God; a though.

 

[Brickjectivity]

It seems that faith' seems to be something that just happens in one's head, in the same way as a random or intended thought would. The moment you have faith in a god, or anything, doesn't seem to be markedly distinct as a brain based thinking activity, as would you were to think of a chair, or think of a fish, whether doing that was random or intended.

For children, 'yes'; but for adults, 'no' -- or 'should be no'. If you are making a chair you have to believe in it first before it exists. You can believe in it (though it does not yet exist), because you are making it. There can be some confusion about this due to the child versus adult view of faith. A child often is not ready to commit to something. They can think they are, but they are children. They don't understand time and commitment, and they are just beginning to live. To me this is why it is not good to ask children to commit or to convert. They may think they know what they are doing, but they probably do not. Faith is not something they are ready to understand, yet they must be taught about it. Therefore they learn a childish version.

Little children can believe what they are told but cannot commit. Adults can commit, but we cannot believe what we are told. Adults need evidence in order to persevere against resistance. We need evidence that things are progressing and that things are possible to achieve. Children need no such evidence and can do nothing with it, cannot make sense of it.

I think that the writer of Hebrews when discussing faith refers to this evidence as the evidence of things not seen. This confuses many people. Most readers are ill equipped to see through the subtleties of the past. Turns of phrase confuse us, and translations are not equivalent to original languages.

When Jesus is quoted to say that if you can move a mountain if you have faith as small as a mustard seed: does he mean that a little belief can create in instantaneous miracle, or does he mean that if you give your all and don't give up that you can accomplish big things?

Consider a cathedral which requires multiple generations to complete. That is faith making something. First there is the plan, then the belief that it is a worthwhile plan, then the willingness to commit. As new people join the effort they see what has been accomplished alread, and they then adopt the same commitment until the cathedral is completed. So when did people believe in the cathedral? They believed in it before and after.

 

[Twilight Hue]

It seems that faith' seems to be something that just happens in one's head, in the same way as a random or intended thought would. The moment you have faith in a god, or anything, doesn't seem to be markedly distinct as a brain based thinking activity, as would you were to think of a chair, or think of a fish, whether doing that was random or intended.

And so if you say, 'I believe in God,' with great enthusiasm, how is that neurologically different than if you were to say, 'I believe in the chair,' or 'I believe in the fish,' with great enthusiasm.

Sure, you might be vest the idea of God with special importance, and probably more importance than you would vest in your idea of the chair, or the fish. So then, faith might be a measure of importance - but in the same way that a thought is not physically visible, it doesn't seem like the measure of importance that any thought has, is physically very visible, or measurable.

An 'act of faith' can seem to be display the importance you have in your thoughts, but that still doesn't seem to show us what the literal importance of your thought was. You might of had a thought that god exists, but you might joined that thought with a separate thought about how important that is, which seems to mean that imagined the first thought to be important, with the second one. So then that begs the question, if any single thought has intrinsic importance

Or if in all instances, of thought, you must join an original thought with the importance that is imagined in separate thoughts, that are then joined to the original. Your education about what god is, doesn't occur in a vacuum. But all cases, it all seems to be just an exercise in brain activity

Thoughts don't generally get you killed.

Faith on the other hand......

 

[amorphous_constellation]

i'll get back to yous eventually , just kinda lazy

 

[King Phenomenon]

It seems that faith' seems to be something that just happens in one's head, in the same way as a random or intended thought would. The moment you have faith in a god, or anything, doesn't seem to be markedly distinct as a brain based thinking activity, as would you were to think of a chair, or think of a fish, whether doing that was random or intended.

And so if you say, 'I believe in God,' with great enthusiasm, how is that neurologically different than if you were to say, 'I believe in the chair,' or 'I believe in the fish,' with great enthusiasm.

Sure, you might be vest the idea of God with special importance, and probably more importance than you would vest in your idea of the chair, or the fish. So then, faith might be a measure of importance - but in the same way that a thought is not physically visible, it doesn't seem like the measure of importance that any thought has, is physically very visible, or measurable.

An 'act of faith' can seem to be display the importance you have in your thoughts, but that still doesn't seem to show us what the literal importance of your thought was. You might of had a thought that god exists, but you might joined that thought with a separate thought about how important that is, which seems to mean that imagined the first thought to be important, with the second one. So then that begs the question, if any single thought has intrinsic importance

Or if in all instances, of thought, you must join an original thought with the importance that is imagined in separate thoughts, that are then joined to the original. Your education about what god is, doesn't occur in a vacuum. But all cases, it all seems to be just an exercise in brain activity

Your concepts abut the relationship between man and god are deluded and warped imo.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

It seems that faith' seems to be something that just happens in one's head, in the same way as a random or intended thought would. The moment you have faith in a god, or anything, doesn't seem to be markedly distinct as a brain based thinking activity, as would you were to think of a chair, or think of a fish, whether doing that was random or intended.

And so if you say, 'I believe in God,' with great enthusiasm, how is that neurologically different than if you were to say, 'I believe in the chair,' or 'I believe in the fish,' with great enthusiasm.

Sure, you might be vest the idea of God with special importance, and probably more importance than you would vest in your idea of the chair, or the fish. So then, faith might be a measure of importance - but in the same way that a thought is not physically visible, it doesn't seem like the measure of importance that any thought has, is physically very visible, or measurable.

An 'act of faith' can seem to be display the importance you have in your thoughts, but that still doesn't seem to show us what the literal importance of your thought was. You might of had a thought that god exists, but you might joined that thought with a separate thought about how important that is, which seems to mean that imagined the first thought to be important, with the second one. So then that begs the question, if any single thought has intrinsic importance

Or if in all instances, of thought, you must join an original thought with the importance that is imagined in separate thoughts, that are then joined to the original. Your education about what god is, doesn't occur in a vacuum. But all cases, it all seems to be just an exercise in brain activity

Well, go to a website with Ayn Rand Objectivists and observe how they deal with the concepts of freedom and free will.
There is so far nothing special in religion as far as I can tell, since it is a natural human behaviour that can be observed in a similar fashion for the non-supernatural.
BTW I am an atheist, just to get it out of the way.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

There is so far nothing special in religion as far as I can tell, since it is a natural human behaviour that can be observed in a similar fashion for the non-supernatural.
BTW I am an atheist, just to get it out of the way.

Well I think maybe religion is kind of just things we put between us and the things we don't understand, or wonder about. Technical mappings that eventually people disagree on

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Your concepts abut the relationship between man and god are deluded and warped imo.

I think that's an interesting combination of adjectives, because when I think of the word 'warped,' I think of solid matter, and when I think of the word deluded, I think of a liquid. So it is strange to combine those words into a description of a singular thing

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Bible shows faith means faithfulness/loyalty. For example Noah was faithful to God and built the ark.

Faithfulness, loyalty, trust, faithlessness.. All occur in the sphere of mentation

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Well I think maybe religion is kind of just things we put between us and the things we don't understand, or wonder about. Technical mappings that eventually people disagree on

Well, it is still not limited to religion. The same goes on in philosophy and to a limited extent in science.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

My brain is constructing an interpretation of the realm outside it

My brain is constructing an interpretation of the realm outside it

To go really far in the rabbit hole, everything is energy and waves and so all I’m seeing is the probability of a chair collapsing into chair

I believe the universe exists
Well there’s no independent observer or measurement of that, so how do we prove the universe exists?

It's a point of input, maybe not totally independent, and maybe not totally dependent. Not totally an observer, and maybe not totally a determined particpant

 

[amorphous_constellation]

The difference between a cat and animal. Cat is an animal. Faith is a mind state that you trust God; a though.

'animal' has specificity, otherwise there is probably no animal. Brain has thoughts, otherwise it's something else

 

[amorphous_constellation]

When Jesus is quoted to say that if you can move a mountain if you have faith as small as a mustard seed: does he mean that a little belief can create in instantaneous miracle, or does he mean that if you give your all and don't give up that you can accomplish big things?

How do you know how big your faith is? You can't look inside your head, to see the percentage of faith you have in a thing. How can you can you tell if it is 3 percent or 51%? Nor does it seem that one can feel their degree of counter-faithlessness in a thing, as it is probably something that is submerged in their subconsciousness anyway

Maybe with AI they'll be able to do it some day, when a cellular computer system runs itself through all of geology, and they can type to the AI to move a mountain a centimeter

But jesus also said, and I forget where, that you should have faith like a child. His sayings are rubik's cube, and I don't think we're that likely to figure them out

 

[PureX]

Faith is a choice, not a thought.

It is the choice to act as if something we hope to be so is or will become so if we trust in and act on it.

 

[Brickjectivity]

How do you know how big your faith is? You can't look inside your head, to see the percentage of faith you have in a thing. How can you can you tell if it is 3 percent or 51%? Nor does it seem that one can feel their degree of counter-faithlessness in a thing, as it is probably something that is submerged in their subconsciousness anyway

Maybe with AI they'll be able to do it some day, when a cellular computer system runs itself through all of geology, and they can type to the AI to move a mountain a centimeter

But jesus also said, and I forget where, that you should have faith like a child. His sayings are rubik's cube, and I don't think we're that likely to figure them out

I think of it qualitatively rather than quantitatively. "Don't give up just because you are not a saint" seems to be part of the idea. Its like when people are dieting and give in to temptation. Some people who do this throw up their hands and stop trying to diet. Others forgive themselves and keep going on the diet.

We could also drop this bit about moving mountains into the category with Jesus parable about the thief and with his comment to a Roman centurion. Each was stuck in an evil way of life. Jesus did not, however, say that they were hopeless. Each could do something.

But jesus also said, and I forget where, that you should have faith like a child...

Technically "Childlike faith" is not there though there are these: Matthew 18:3, Mark 10:15, Luke 18:17. What he says is to receive the kingdom of God like children would, but "Childlike faith" is not in there.

His sayings are rubik's cube, and I don't think we're that likely to figure them out

Yes, and its like a Rubik's puzzle missing some pieces.

 

[Kfox]

It seems that faith' seems to be something that just happens in one's head, in the same way as a random or intended thought would. The moment you have faith in a god, or anything, doesn't seem to be markedly distinct as a brain based thinking activity, as would you were to think of a chair, or think of a fish, whether doing that was random or intended.

And so if you say, 'I believe in God,' with great enthusiasm, how is that neurologically different than if you were to say, 'I believe in the chair,' or 'I believe in the fish,' with great enthusiasm.

Sure, you might be vest the idea of God with special importance, and probably more importance than you would vest in your idea of the chair, or the fish. So then, faith might be a measure of importance - but in the same way that a thought is not physically visible, it doesn't seem like the measure of importance that any thought has, is physically very visible, or measurable.

An 'act of faith' can seem to be display the importance you have in your thoughts, but that still doesn't seem to show us what the literal importance of your thought was. You might of had a thought that god exists, but you might joined that thought with a separate thought about how important that is, which seems to mean that imagined the first thought to be important, with the second one. So then that begs the question, if any single thought has intrinsic importance

Or if in all instances, of thought, you must join an original thought with the importance that is imagined in separate thoughts, that are then joined to the original. Your education about what god is, doesn't occur in a vacuum. But all cases, it all seems to be just an exercise in brain activity

All faith are thoughts, but not all thoughts are faith

 

[RestlessSoul]

Faith is a spiritual condition. Not so much a state of mind, as a state of the soul.