What is the Difference?

[Circle_One]

A couple of links that Draka posted in the Wicca section here got me thinking and I thought I'd pose my question to all of you out there in RF land to see what everyone else thinks.

In this particular link, the author is criticizing and condemning Wiccans (and all those of Magickal paths) for many reasons, one of these being the fact that we perform spells, rituals, divination, etc.

What I want to know is, what exactly is the difference between a Wiccan (or Pagan, or Witch, etc) asking the Goddess for guidance and through her gathering power to perform spells, and Jesus performing miracles through the power of God or Christians asking God for guidance through prayers, etc. etc.?

I figured we could get a good, healthy debate about this and I'm keen to hear answers from all sides.

Please though, don't condemn me to hell, I've had way too much of that in this past week

Thanks.

C1

 

[jewscout]

A couple of links that Draka posted in the Wicca section here got me thinking and I thought I'd pose my question to all of you out there in RF land to see what everyone else thinks.

In this particular link, the author is criticizing and condemning Wiccans (and all those of Magickal paths) for many reasons, one of these being the fact that we perform spells, rituals, divination, etc.

What I want to know is, what exactly is the difference between a Wiccan (or Pagan, or Witch, etc) asking the Goddess for guidance and through her gathering power to perform spells, and Jesus performing miracles through the power of God or Christians asking God for guidance through prayers, etc. etc.?

I figured we could get a good, healthy debate about this and I'm keen to hear answers from all sides.

Please though, don't condemn me to hell, I've had way too much of that in this past week

Thanks.

C1

IMPO not a whole friggin lot

 

[Green Gaia]

Well, the difference is, these people who would condemn you for asking the Goddess for help and Her power working thru you, see mere humans (us) as not Jesus' equal. He is God. He is allowed to do these things, whereas we are not, and cannot possibly know what we're dealing with. That's my take on it anyway.


ETA: I don't see much difference.

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

A witch lights a candle and burns some incense and asks for protection for her son who is going off to war. Or asks that she gets the new job she seeks.

A catholic lights a candle and burns incense and prays for protection for her son who is going off to war. Or prays that she get the new job she seeks.

Looks the same to me. The bible says that if you seek, you will find. If you knock, the door will be open. Ask and you shall recieve.

 

[Circle_One]

A witch lights a candle and burns some incense and asks for protection for her son who is going off to war. Or asks that she gets the new job she seeks.

A catholic lights a candle and burns incense and prays for protection for her son who is going off to war. Or prays that she get the new job she seeks.

Looks the same to me. The bible says that if you seek, you will find. If you knock, the door will be open. Ask and you shall recieve.

That's exactly how I see it. So why then, when I am lighting a white candle and burning incense and asking for protection or a job, or healing, etc. am I doing the work of the Devil (according, of course, to the Christians who condemn me), and am, in doing so, securing my overly heated armchair in hell, yet when a Christian does so, they are doing God's work and are securing their place at his side in Heaven?

In short: Why is my white candle and my incense evil and theirs not?

 

[Green Gaia]

In short: Why is my white candle and my incense evil and theirs not?

Why is their religion right and yours wrong? It all comes back to the belief that there is only one true religion and therefore all others must be wrong. Some cannot fathom that there could be many different ways to the Source.

 

[McBell]

It is the same.
The only difference is who it is you are asking.

Certain religions do not encourage people to see anything other than black and white.
It is a seriously overwhelming "You are either with us or you are against us" attitude.

 

[Sabio]

A couple of links that Draka posted in the Wicca section here got me thinking and I thought I'd pose my question to all of you out there in RF land to see what everyone else thinks.

In this particular link, the author is criticizing and condemning Wiccans (and all those of Magickal paths) for many reasons, one of these being the fact that we perform spells, rituals, divination, etc.

What I want to know is, what exactly is the difference between a Wiccan (or Pagan, or Witch, etc) asking the Goddess for guidance and through her gathering power to perform spells, and Jesus performing miracles through the power of God or Christians asking God for guidance through prayers, etc. etc.?

I figured we could get a good, healthy debate about this and I'm keen to hear answers from all sides.

Please though, don't condemn me to hell, I've had way too much of that in this past week

Thanks.

C1

Circle,

Sorry for your bad week. You do pose an interesting question, that I'm sure many have questions about. I hope this explanation helps you to better understand the Christian practices.

Christian's are taught that Jesus in fact performed miracles through the power of God, and that "we" have spiritual powers from Jesus through the Holy Spirit. Christian's do not pray only to seek God's help, we also pray in "agressive resistance" to Satan and his followers in order to free people from the bondage of Satan. We believe that Satan has a spritual hierarchy if you will, with "principalites and powers and sprititual wickedness in high places", these are what we Christians war against, not "flesh and blood". This is referred to as "spiritual warfare" in the Bible, and thus it is, but only in the spiritual realm. For example, if I discerned (through the Holy Spirit) that you were in bondage to a certain spiritual oppression, and I wanted to help you to be set free of this bondage, I would pray in Jesus name that the spiritual oppressor set you free, Jesus and God honor this prayer as they have empowered me to do so, and if you sought freedom you would be set free the oppressing spirit must leave you (though you have free will to let the oppressor stay). This is just an example of how Christians can and do utilize the "power of God" as you call it. Jesus' power did not leave the earth when He did, it carried on in His followers.

Sabio

 

[Circle_One]

So basically it boils down to the thought process that even though I'm asking the same question, because I'm not asking it of He who Christianity tells me I should ask, and am instead asking She who I feel comfortable with asking, I am evil. And because I'm not asking the God of Christianity, I am, ultimately (to those certain Christians, anyway) following Satan, even though I don't believe in him, right?

Sabio, I thank you for your sympathies, it does get trying sometimes when I'm constantly being attacked and condemned. I thank you, too, for your answer, I was waiting for a Christian response to see their thoughts on the subject. But I'd like to know, in Christianity as a whole, is it not possible at all for my powers, imbued to me by the Goddess, to be that of Good, rather than Evil? Or are they considered evil simply because they come to me through a different source than that through which they are imbued to you?

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

That's exactly how I see it. So why then, when I am lighting a white candle and burning incense and asking for protection or a job, or healing, etc. am I doing the work of the Devil (according, of course, to the Christians who condemn me), and am, in doing so, securing my overly heated armchair in hell, yet when a Christian does so, they are doing God's work and are securing their place at his side in Heaven?

In short: Why is my white candle and my incense evil and theirs not?

C1, it is ignorance on their part. The bible that they hold all their faith in speaks against witchcraft. Most Christians are taught not to question the bible's authority, and many are afraid to question the validity of the translation.

The bible originally does not speak against witchraft, but against 'pharmakia'. Christians are not taught about reincarnation because it was believed that one would try harder to achieve perfection if they thought they only had one chance to get it right. Many Christians are also taught that God is an angry diety just looking for someone to punish.

These beliefs are nothing more than ignorance that has not yet had the light shown upon it. If a Christian truly seeks God's wisdom, they would know that they are not to judge others but love them unconditionally.

Just remember that those who judge, will be judged. Send those people loving energy and hopefully they will be able to see the truth past their opinions. Tell them that you will light a candle for them so they may know unconditional love.

 

[Sabio]

So basically it boils down to the thought process that even though I'm asking the same question, because I'm not asking it of He who Christianity tells me I should ask, and am instead asking She who I feel comfortable with asking, I am evil. And because I'm not asking the God of Christianity, I am, ultimately (to those certain Christians, anyway) following Satan, even though I don't believe in him, right?

Sabio, I thank you for your sympathies, it does get trying sometimes when I'm constantly being attacked and condemned. I thank you, too, for your answer, I was waiting for a Christian response to see their thoughts on the subject. But I'd like to know, in Christianity as a whole, is it not possible at all for my powers, imbued to me by the Goddess, to be that of Good, rather than Evil? Or are they considered evil simply because they come to me through a different source than that through which they are imbued to you?

Circle,

I don't mean to answer a question with a question (I will answer the original question) but I need just a little more information, please?

What are the results of your spells, incantations, etc? (that you have observed). Can you give me an example like I did for you?

Thanks

Sabio

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What I want to know is, what exactly is the difference between a Wiccan (or Pagan, or Witch, etc) asking the Goddess for guidance and through her gathering power to perform spells, and Jesus performing miracles through the power of God or Christians asking God for guidance through prayers, etc. etc.?

A Witch calls on the Goddess; Jesus called on Yahweh. Thats the only difference.

 

[Sabio]

C1, it is ignorance on their part. The bible that they hold all their faith in speaks against witchcraft. Most Christians are taught not to question the bible's authority, and many are afraid to question the validity of the translation.

The bible originally does not speak against witchraft, but against 'pharmakia'. Christians are not taught about reincarnation because it was believed that one would try harder to achieve perfection if they thought they only had one chance to get it right. Many Christians are also taught that God is an angry diety just looking for someone to punish.

You are right the Bible does teach that witchcraft is wrong, but Pharmakia is only mentioned in the New Testament as it is a Greek term and in context the Bible is teaching against those who use drugs to entrap and undermine people (IE using drugs for sorcery). A good example would be the drug dealers who were in the Calli Cartel of Columbia who practiced occult methods to promote their drug trade. The Old Testament also teaches against "witchcraft" commonly translated from the Hebrew words " Nahash" - "divination or fortune telling", and "Quasam" - divination with rebellion or arrogance (to God).

I've really never had any Christian teaching on reincarnation, perhaps others have?

These beliefs are nothing more than ignorance that has not yet had the light shown upon it. If a Christian truly seeks God's wisdom, they would know that they are not to judge others but love them unconditionally.

Yes, Christians are taught to love unconditionally. If I did not love and care about you and Circle I would not be spending my time answering your questions and trying to help you understand my beliefs. Our beliefs are not "ignorance". I believe the Wisdom of God as taught by Jesus.

Sabio

 

[Circle_One]

What are the results of your spells, incantations, etc? (that you have observed). Can you give me an example like I did for you?

An example? Sure. I mainly do healing spells, it's my preference. A quick example is this:

My aunt was diagnosed with Breast Cancer not too long ago (as some of you may remember) and had to have a mastectomy. I performed a healing spell so that she would find herself healthy, with a quick recovery and no side effects, further problems, etc. I also made a Healing charm bag for her, to carry with her always and keep her safe.

She was released from the hospital the day after the surgery, as per usual here, and she found herself in no pain whatsoever afterwards, never even needing to take any of the pain medication required of her. When she returned to the hospital for a checkup, they found that the surgery had gone perfect and there was nothing left of the cancer in her body whatsoever.

Those who don't follow my path can easily say it was a coincidence, of course, as I can say the answered prayers of a Christian were nothing more than coincidence, but I believe the Goddess was watching over her, answering my pleas, and keeping her safe. Through my spell, the Goddess helped my aunt to recover.

That is one example. Hope that helps

 

[Circle_One]

You are right the Bible does teach that witchcraft is wrong

But Sabio, why does the Bible teach that Witchcraft is wrong? How can helping my aunt recover and keeping her safe from future ills be considered wrong?

 

[michel]

That's exactly how I see it. So why then, when I am lighting a white candle and burning incense and asking for protection or a job, or healing, etc. am I doing the work of the Devil (according, of course, to the Christians who condemn me), and am, in doing so, securing my overly heated armchair in hell, yet when a Christian does so, they are doing God's work and are securing their place at his side in Heaven?

In short: Why is my white candle and my incense evil and theirs not?

It isn't in my book; one thing I have had comfirmed here (On the forum) is that whichcraft (I don't even like the name - which shows how much conditioning there has been in society) - per se is neither good nor bad. It is the intention of your spell that decides whether what you do is evil or not.

Unfortunately, the same applies in reverse, in a case where a priest of an established faith begins to go off the rails, and starts comitting sins; the fact that he is a priest of a 'good' faith won;t save him - it is his deeds that he will be judged on.

I'm sorry you feel 'bashed' - no one should be made to feel that way.......

 

[Sabio]

But Sabio, why does the Bible teach that Witchcraft is wrong? How can helping my aunt recover and keeping her safe from future ills be considered wrong?

Circle,

I think it is obvious from the original Greek and Hebrew words I posted, "intent" is what makes anything right or wrong. In the Biblical examples, I believe witchcraft was always being done in rebellion to God. I do not know your heart or your beliefs only God does, so I cannot judge you. Are you rebelling against God (referred to as the "Abrahamic God" in RF)?

I am very happy to hear that you aunt is well.

Sabio

 

[Circle_One]

I am very happy to hear that you aunt is well.

Thank you for that!

I cannot rebel against something I don't believe in, Sabio. And in any case, my beliefs, I assure you, have nothing to do with rebellion of any kind. I follow them because I feel them...if that makes sense. What I believe in feels right to me, but I don't pretend, at all, to think that my beliefs are the only right and true way. They are right and true for me and that is it.

I don't believe that Witchcraft was ever practiced solely as a rebellion to God, I do think, on the other hand, that Christians claimed Witches were practices their faiths so as to rebel from God, so that they would have some sort of "fact" to condemn them with. "You're intentionally rebelling against God, therefore you are unlike and so you must burn.." etc. etc. (Obviously it wasn't said exactly like that, but you get my gist).

It isn't in my book; one thing I have had comfirmed here (On the forum) is that whichcraft (I don't even like the name - which shows how much conditioning there has been in society) - per se is neither good nor bad. It is the intention of your spell that decides whether what you do is evil or not.

This I wholeheartedly agree with Michel, in both cases. It just seems to me though, that a lot of Christians (and I am by no means applying that they speak for the majority), claim that they're prayers, etc. are good because they are directed at God, while my spells and ritual, for the same things, are evil because they are directed at a source other than their God and this bugs me a little.

I'm sorry you feel 'bashed' - no one should be made to feel that way.......

I agree Michel, it saddens me when people feel the need to bash others solely because their religious beliefs do not coincide with one another. Thank you!

 

[jewscout]

But Sabio, why does the Bible teach that Witchcraft is wrong? How can helping my aunt recover and keeping her safe from future ills be considered wrong?

well i think from a Torah perspective it's about not trusting in HaShem to help you and answer your prayers, that you have to manipulate the forces around you (or whatever).
But again only prohibited for the jews...
but then you got Kaballah...which has spell casting and stuff in it...so take it how you will

 

[CMIYC]

A couple of links that Draka posted in the Wicca section here got me thinking and I thought I'd pose my question to all of you out there in RF land to see what everyone else thinks.

In this particular link, the author is criticizing and condemning Wiccans (and all those of Magickal paths) for many reasons, one of these being the fact that we perform spells, rituals, divination, etc.

What I want to know is, what exactly is the difference between a Wiccan (or Pagan, or Witch, etc) asking the Goddess for guidance and through her gathering power to perform spells, and Jesus performing miracles through the power of God or Christians asking God for guidance through prayers, etc. etc.?

I figured we could get a good, healthy debate about this and I'm keen to hear answers from all sides.

Please though, don't condemn me to hell, I've had way too much of that in this past week

Thanks.

C1

I believe all humans suffer from a form of schizophrenia, god being that conmen imaginary friend. If you’re not with the majority then you become an outcast. No one has ever seen god, yet, you can call out his name in public and no one thinks anything of it. Walk down the street and talk to imaginary friend Steve and you’ll become an outcast. Jesus claims his god but always looks to heavens for answers, even worse, he prays to himself and questions himself. Do you think if you were all knowing “god” creator of all, this would be necessary? My view has always been, you don’t need common nominator (god) for spirituality. Spirituality can be reached through sport, politics, family and friends and so on. Spirituality is anything a group of people can do together, share together and archive together.

Cheers