What is the Gnostic View of Chaos

[sandhill]

In the New Kingdom Egyptian worldview, there are two forms of "Chaos", one being the watery abyss of potential existence, called "NUN", and a hostile intelligence that seeks to overthrow all order including the annihilation of NUN, preventing even latent existence from existing and thus reducing the totality to total entropy. This hostile force is called APOPHIS.

Is there any similarity between this and any Gnostic teaching, and would it be appropriate to say that the Archons want to see such annihilation?

 

[Halcyon]

In the New Kingdom Egyptian worldview, there are two forms of "Chaos", one being the watery abyss of potential existence, called "NUN", and a hostile intelligence that seeks to overthrow all order including the annihilation of NUN, preventing even latent existence from existing and thus reducing the totality to total entropy. This hostile force is called APOPHIS.

Is there any similarity between this and any Gnostic teaching, and would it be appropriate to say that the Archons want to see such annihilation?

Not in my opinion, no.

The archons are the rulers, they just want worship. The Demiurge is a creator, a flawed one, but still a creator.
I'm not sure there is a chaotic supreme evil in Gnostic theology, nothing could prevent existence from existing since existence comes from God, only God could destroy it.

 

[Buttons*]

chaos?

 

[Kay]

In the New Kingdom Egyptian worldview, there are two forms of "Chaos", one being the watery abyss of potential existence, called "NUN", and a hostile intelligence that seeks to overthrow all order including the annihilation of NUN, preventing even latent existence from existing and thus reducing the totality to total entropy. This hostile force is called APOPHIS.

Is there any similarity between this and any Gnostic teaching, and would it be appropriate to say that the Archons want to see such annihilation?

I can't speak directly to the Gnostic view, but this is interesting nonetheless.

Some scholars I've read (Jewish and Christian) have said that the "watery deep" in Genesis 1 is actually Chaos (rather than any actual water). Some don't think it's coincidence that "tehom" (deep or abyss in Hebrew) and Tiamet (a Babylonian Goddess of water) are spelled similarly.

There is interesting correspondences with Leviathan, serpents, chaos, and creation as well.

Links:

Elements of Creation

Tehom at Wiki

 

[Random]

chaos?

Generally considered to be the opposite of "Order", Ashley.

As I understand it from studying Gnosticism over the years, the True God did not ordain Chaos but rather it came about from the Fall of Sophia. Chaos was the layer of higher reality over which the malevolent Demiurge pulled the false construct of the material universe. One who has attained the Psychic level of initiation can transcend it in "order" to reach higher stratas of the true divine reality during ascension to re-unification with God. Perhaps I am interpolating a bit much here...I don't know, Halcyon will correct me if I'm too far off base.

 

[Halcyon]

Generally considered to be the opposite of "Order", Ashley.

As I understand it from studying Gnosticism over the years, the True God did not ordain Chaos but rather it came about from the Fall of Sophia. Chaos was the layer of higher reality over which the malevolent Demiurge pulled the false construct of the material universe. One who has attained the Psychic level of initiation can transcend it in "order" to reach higher stratas of the true divine reality during ascension to re-unification with God. Perhaps I am interpolating a bit much here...I don't know, Halcyon will correct me if I'm too far off base.

Depends which Gnostic myth you choose to go with, but you could view it like that.

Although its Pneumatic instead of Psychic;
It goes, Hylic = materialistic people, Psychic = your average religious person, then Pneumatic = enlightened people. Most people are in the Psychic grouping.

 

[gnostic]

Some scholars I've read (Jewish and Christian) have said that the "watery deep" in Genesis 1 is actually Chaos (rather than any actual water). Some don't think it's coincidence that "tehom" (deep or abyss in Hebrew) and Tiamet (a Babylonian Goddess of water) are spelled similarly.

Very insightful, Neosnoia.

Furballs... :sorry1: I mean frubals to you.

Although its Pneumatic instead of Psychic;
It goes, Hylic = materialistic people, Psychic = your average religious person, then Pneumatic = enlightened people. Most people are in the Psychic grouping.

I think I'm in the manic group.

:banghead3 OW! That feels good. OW! That feels good. OW! That f....

 

[yuvgotmel]

Sandhill,

I'd like to address your original question. After initially reading it, I researched "The Gnostic Bible" for references on this matter, and the best description that I found was in the essay called "On the Origin of the World." Since reading your post and the essay, I have been pondering and meditating on this matter. It is interesting; and I'd like to recommend that anyone who would like to research this further to read the essay mentioned from "The Gnostic Bible."

Mel.

 

[Andreas]

In the New Kingdom Egyptian worldview, there are two forms of "Chaos", one being the watery abyss of potential existence, called "NUN", and a hostile intelligence that seeks to overthrow all order including the annihilation of NUN, preventing even latent existence from existing and thus reducing the totality to total entropy. This hostile force is called APOPHIS.

Is there any similarity between this and any Gnostic teaching, and would it be appropriate to say that the Archons want to see such annihilation?

I would say that most primitive gnostics believed, as I do, that 'chaos' and 'order' are simply the ends of one form; chaos must exist, without it change would never take place, likewise order, unchecked, would create an eternal non-changing situation.
There must be order for things to exist, yet chaos is also needed for things to exist. These images are simply symbols of this;
It is more a balance than struggle, I would suggest, with neither existing with the destruction of the other. I would also add: There is no such thing as 'non-existence'.

 

[Halcyon]

I would also add: There is no such thing as 'non-existence'.

I would disagree with that.
I believe that all things exist, in some reality or another. But i also believe that God doesn't exist - i'm not saying i don't believe God is, just that It doesn't exist, as i believe existence issues from God and that God is not subject to Its own emanations.

In Allogenes the question is asked;
"Does It* exist through Its own being, or does It exist and will It come further into being?"

This is answered later in the text;
"... It has no need of mind or life or anything, for It is greater than all in Its ultimacy and incomprehensibility, in nonexistent reality."
"It is not something that exists, which people can understand, but something greater, which no one can understand."
"It is not among things that exist, but is greater among what is greater."


*It = God.