what is the greater(awful) sin , the sin of killing Jesus (pbuh) or the sin of Adam (PBUH) (that Je

[Godobeyer]

You The christians believe that Jesus (pbuh) die for our sins , and exacltly for the sin of our father Adam (pbuh) , my question is very clear , and I want an answer very clear.

• what is the greater(awful) sin ,1- the sin of killing Jesus (pbuh) or 2- the sin of Adam (PBUH) (that Jesus (pbuh) die for )???.
  

 

[Eliot Wild]

You The christians believe that Jesus (pbuh) die for our sins , and exacltly for the sin of our father Adam (pbuh) , my question is very clear , and I want an answer very clear.

• what is the greater(awful) sin ,1- the sin of killing Jesus (pbuh) or 2- the sin of Adam (PBUH) (that Jesus (pbuh) die for )???.
  

Actually, with all due respect, I don't find your question to be all that clear. What do you mean by 'greatest (awful)'? If you are going to demand clarity from others, perhaps you should take the time to explain your question so that it is leaves no room for doubt.

Do you mean 'which is the greater sin' in the sense of which is most awful? Is that why you have parenthetically included the word 'awful' in your post? If so, could you explain what you mean by 'awful'? Do you mean that in the subjective sense? Are you asking which sin do individual christians find to be the most awful, therefore the most personally distasteful and hated?

Or do you mean which is the greater sin in the sense of which holds the greater consequence for all of humanity?

Or do you mean which is the greater sin in the sense of which one does God find most offensive or troubling?

Or do you mean which is the greater sin in the sense of which sin resulted in the greatest trajedy?

However, even though your question is far from clear, I will say this and try to be as clear as possible:

If you mean which sin is the greatest in that in had the greatest harmful impact on humanity, then my understanding would lead me to say the sin of Adam, as that particular sin wrought permanent spiritual separation between man and God. According to my understanding of Christian Doctrine, the Sin of Adam caused a spiritual breach, a disconnect between man and God which can only be repaired through Christian Salvation.

But, if you mean which sin is the greatest in that individual Christians find it most distasteful and hated, then there very well might be some Christians who would say that the killing of Christ was more loathsome and 'awful' to them personally. They might indicate that they are thankful for Christ's sacrifice, but wish the spiritual atonement that came from Christ's horrific death might have been available through some other less 'painful' and 'murderous' method of redemption. They might wish that their Lord and Savior might have not been treated so 'awfully' at the hands of men who in their own ignorance and cruelty didn't even understand what they were doing. Some Christians might indicate that Adam's sin was one mostly of ignorance and that in a way Adam's sin was even necessary so that mankind could truly see the difference between good and evil. But that Christ's death was especially cruel and horrific because He didn't deserve it, yet he died for the good of all mankind.

Of course, if you mean which is the greatest sin in that it resulted in the largest tragic impact for the greatest number of people, then I suppose we would have to go back to the Sin of Adam because his sin, according to most Christian doctrine, brought about the downfall of all humanity and forced all humankind after him to suffer separation from God unless they were redeemed through worthy atonement.

I hope this is 'clear' enough for you. Of course, I can't speak for all Christians. Hell, I can't even speak for anyone but myself. However, that is my clearest understanding and answer given your truncated question.

 

[Godobeyer]

Actually, with all due respect, I don't find your question to be all that clear. What do you mean by 'greatest (awful)'? If you are going to demand clarity from others, perhaps you should take the time to explain your question so that it is leaves no room for doubt.

Do you mean 'which is the greater sin' in the sense of which is most awful? Is that why you have parenthetically included the word 'awful' in your post? If so, could you explain what you mean by 'awful'? Do you mean that in the subjective sense? Are you asking which sin do individual christians find to be the most awful, therefore the most personally distasteful and hated?

Or do you mean which is the greater sin in the sense of which holds the greater consequence for all of humanity?

Or do you mean which is the greater sin in the sense of which one does God find most offensive or troubling?

Or do you mean which is the greater sin in the sense of which sin resulted in the greatest trajedy?

However, even though your question is far from clear, I will say this and try to be as clear as possible:

If you mean which sin is the greatest in that in had the greatest harmful impact on humanity, then my understanding would lead me to say the sin of Adam, as that particular sin wrought permanent spiritual separation between man and God. According to my understanding of Christian Doctrine, the Sin of Adam caused a spiritual breach, a disconnect between man and God which can only be repaired through Christian Salvation.

But, if you mean which sin is the greatest in that individual Christians find it most distasteful and hated, then there very well might be some Christians who would say that the killing of Christ was more loathsome and 'awful' to them personally. They might indicate that they are thankful for Christ's sacrifice, but wish the spiritual atonement that came from Christ's horrific death might have been available through some other less 'painful' and 'murderous' method of redemption. They might wish that their Lord and Savior might have not been treated so 'awfully' at the hands of men who in their own ignorance and cruelty didn't even understand what they were doing. Some Christians might indicate that Adam's sin was one mostly of ignorance and that in a way Adam's sin was even necessary so that mankind could truly see the difference between good and evil. But that Christ's death was especially cruel and horrific because He didn't deserve it, yet he died for the good of all mankind.

Of course, if you mean which is the greatest sin in that it resulted in the largest tragic impact for the greatest number of people, then I suppose we would have to go back to the Sin of Adam because his sin, according to most Christian doctrine, brought about the downfall of all humanity and forced all humankind after him to suffer separation from God unless they were redeemed through worthy atonement.

I hope this is 'clear' enough for you. Of course, I can't speak for all Christians. Hell, I can't even speak for anyone but myself. However, that is my clearest understanding and answer given your truncated question.

Thanks for your big paragraphe,I know well the concept of the salvation that you just run around it , but indeed, i guess you did not got my point ,

I will make it clear to you by another question to you , it's will make it easy for you and me :
Jesus (pbuh) killed as you believe ?right?
his killers do a sin (killing Jesus pbuh) right ?

We have two sins , sin of Adam (that Jesus pbuh die for) , and sin of the killers of Jesus (pbuh) right ?
now let's compare !!! what is the awful sin, wha is the greater sin , what is most horrible sin (between the two sins)


as you know we have many kinds of sins , lie is not like steal , and steal it not like rape , and rape it's not like kill ....all of these are sins , but each one have a value than the other.

my new question is :
what is your (christians) consideration of the sin of the killers of Jesus (pbuh)?? (its normal sin , great sin ,greatest sin ) ?

 

[RedNeill]

As an Atheist and former Christian I will try and give my answer, although the question is still not clear. I presume english is your secong language and this is why we struggle to understand the nature of your question.

Bearing in mind that god intended for Jesus to die for the sins of humanity it doesn't really make much sence to see this as a greater sin. It was part of gods plan and was really IMO more of a gift not that it was realised by the Romans or Jews at the time. Adams sin was the original sin, the sin the supposedly spawned all other sin so I would imagine this is worse. This is just my opinion so feel free to question it.

 

[Godobeyer]

As an Atheist and former Christian I will try and give my answer, although the question is still not clear. I presume english is your secong language and this is why we struggle to understand the nature of your question.

Bearing in mind that god intended for Jesus to die for the sins of humanity it doesn't really make much sence to see this as a greater sin. It was part of gods plan and was really IMO more of a gift not that it was realised by the Romans or Jews at the time. Adams sin was the original sin, the sin the supposedly spawned all other sin so I would imagine this is worse. This is just my opinion so feel free to question it.

My point is very clear , the killers of Jesus (pbuh) did a sin right ???? it's possible a great and major sin right ?
and Adam (pbuh) and Eve did a sin (the original sin as the christians believe)

We have to sins ,the sin of the killers of Jesus (pbuh) and the sin of Adam right???
my question is very clear , what is the awful sin between these two sins??
the sin of the killers , or the sin of Adam and Eve ?

this thread is relate with my new thread
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...sin-killers-jesus-pbuh-what-christianity.html

 

[Eliot Wild]

My point is very clear , the killers of Jesus (pbuh) did a sin right ???? it's possible a great and major sin right ?
and Adam (pbuh) and Eve did a sin (the original sin as the christians believe)

We have to sins ,the sin of the killers of Jesus (pbuh) and the sin of Adam right???
my question is very clear , what is the awful sin between these two sins??
the sin of the killers , or the sin of Adam and Eve ?

this thread is relate with my new thread
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...sin-killers-jesus-pbuh-what-christianity.html

Just because you tell people that your question is clear, that does NOT make the statement true. Your question is NOT clear because you have not defined certain terms.

What do you mean by 'awful'? Dictionary.com provides a total of SIX different definitions for the word, 'awful':

aw·ful

  aw-ful: /ˈɔ

fəl/ Show Spelled[aw-fuh

l] Show IPA
–adjective
1. extremely bad; unpleasant; ugly: awful paintings; an awful job.

2. inspiring fear; dreadful; terrible: an awful noise.

3. solemnly impressive; inspiring awe: the awful majesty of alpine peaks.

4. full of awe; reverential.

5. extremely dangerous, risky, injurious, etc.: That was an awful fall she had. He took an awful chance by driving here so fast.

–adverb 6. Informal . very; extremely: He did an awful good job of painting the barn. It's awful hot in here.

Not only have you failed to properly define your terms, you have also failed to clarify from whose Point of View we respondent's are evaluating the question.

Do you mean 'awful' from God's perspective as interpreted by Christians?

Do you mean 'awful' from God's perspective as divinely decreed through some supposedly infallible medium of communication from God to man, like the Bible?

Do you mean 'awful' from mankind's perspective as individuals view the two sins with their human perspectives and limited mortal understandings?

Do you mean 'awful' from Jesus' perspective, the man who most Christians believe to be God in human form who suffered because of the sin against Him?

It may sound like we're being 'nit-picky' or like we're being evasive demanding clarifications. But these are very important distinctions. For example, if you want to know what people believe is God's view of these two sins, then someone like myself who doesn't believe there is an infallible medium for understanding God's perspective, would say the question is unanswerable from God's point of view. If you want to know how individual Christians view these two sins, then I daresay the answers will vary widely from person to person.

So, I hope you see that just because you believe your question is clear, doesn't make it so. And here's some advice, though I would never presume to lecture you. You can't demand that others understand what you're saying or asking. If people indicate your question is unclear and that they don't understand, rather than arguing with them and demanding you indeed have been clear, perhaps you should try another approach.

my new question is :
what is your (christians) consideration of the sin of the killers of Jesus (pbuh)?? (its normal sin , great sin ,greatest sin ) ?

I believe all killing is horrible. This is my PERSONAL opinion and I certainly can't speak for any others.

Nobody should have the right to take another person's life. Ultimately, the people who killed Jesus were wrong. But, no more so than any others who try to rationalize or validate their acts of cruelty and murder. Murder is murder, whether the victim be a man/woman, a god or a man-god, or something else entirely.

 

[Godobeyer]

thanks again for your relpy , i guess you know understand my question ,
of course i mean "by awful" this :

  aw-ful: 
1. extremely bad; unpleasant; ugly: awful paintings; an awful job.

again let me explain , we have the 1- sin of the killers of Jesus pbuh (that you considerate as horrible crime ).

- and we have the second sin, 2- the sin of Adam , (that Jesus pbuh die for ).
My question is :
what is the awful sin (greater) sin between this two sins ???

I want you to compare between the two sins ,then give me an answer .

In the above sentences,
the word "big" is an ADJECTIVE
the word "bigger" is a COMPARATIVE ADJECTIVE
and the word "biggest" is a SUPERLATIVE ADJECTIVE

use the comparative or superlative mode.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The story of Adam is a myth written down by the the early Jewish people. He represents their view on the start of the human race, and the relationship between the first men and God.
As he was not a real person, there is no question of actual sin being involved.

Jesus Predicted his own crucification.

His betrayal, His arraigning to trial by the Jewish authorities and sentencing to death by Potions Pilot and subsequent Crucification by roman soldiers, all were sinful acts. But as they were all foreordained by God the severity of their sins are probably related to the thoughts and intentions in their own hearts, and known only to God.

This is of course the case with all sin... only God knows our souls intent, only God is the judge.

 

[Godobeyer]

The story of Adam is a myth written down by the the early Jewish people. He represents their view on the start of the human race, and the relationship between the first men and God.
As he was not a real person, there is no question of actual sin being involved.

Jesus Predicted his own crucification.

His betrayal, His arraigning to trial by the Jewish authorities and sentencing to death by Potions Pilot and subsequent Crucification by roman soldiers, all were sinful acts. But as they were all foreordained by God the severity of their sins are probably related to the thoughts and intentions in their own hearts, and known only to God.

This is of course the case with all sin... only God knows our souls intent, only God is the judge.

this is not the anwser of my question , (we know the story of Adam) , my question is comparative , between the two sins .

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

this is not the anwser of my question , (we know the story of Adam) , my question is comparative , between the two sins .

It is my answer to your question. and is a valid Christian point of view.
That it is not the answer you wish to hear, is of no importance.

Adam was not a real person and so is incapable of sin.
Only God Can measure our sins.
Your, or my, opinion on the gravity of sin is meaningless, as we can not measure sin.

 

[Eliot Wild]

I guess God already measure all the kinds of sins, and each sin had its punishement.

if you tring to tell me that the sin of Adam is more awful (greater) than the sin of the killers of Jesus (pbuh) ......this is logical wrong ,naturaly wrong , religious wrong , humanbeing law wrong .

because the fruits (for god) is not important more than the his son (as you believe)

With all due respect, it is fairly obvious from the OP and your other posts that this whole time you have been trying to lay a trap for Christians, so to speak. But unfortunately, not all Christians think the same way. And their answers to certain questions are going to vary greatly. That kind of makes it hard to trap all of 'em.

Your original question presupposes a few things that it shouldn't. Many Christians don't believe there is a gradation for sin as your questions in this thread presuppose. Many Christians believe that ALL sin is equal in the eyes of God. From our flawed human perspectives, we often see certain transgressions as being worse than others. We may see the killing of Jesus as being more cruel than the execution of a convicted murderer because Jesus was innocent and pure and flawless. We might view theft from a rich man as less 'awful' than the rape and murder of a toddler. This is because we view sin from a human perspective.

However, many Christians don't believe that God views sin as we do. Therefore, your question is flawed and misguided at its premise. That is kind of what I've been trying to tell you all along. It's like asking the following, "Do you Christians see the sky as rose-red or as cherry-red?" Well, the answer is that Christians see the sky as 'blue', not any kind of red. Your question implies certain preselected answers.

No offense, but it seems like you're playing a game of dogmatic 'got-cha' where you're fixing the question so that it demands particular answers which you are already prepared in advance to shoot down. That's not discussion nor is it debate . . . that's what we Westerners call a good ole Texas ambush.

 

[Godobeyer]

this whole time you have been trying to lay a trap for Christians,

don't misunderstand me I respect you, and my question is not a joke or i try to lay a trap as you saying , I want to know how the christians value the killing of Jesus (pbuh) ? and if the new testement condamne the killers .

Your original question presupposes a few things that it shouldn't. Many Christians don't believe there is a gradation for sin as your questions in this thread presuppose. Many Christians believe that ALL sin is equal in the eyes of God.

:clap all sin is equal in the eyes of God ....lol , that mean ... the lie, steal , the rape , the killing , ....etc , all are the sin value at God !!!
let me explain :
if some one bit you its the same for god if He kill you ?
if some one lie to you , its same if he rape your daughter ? (sorry of this eg)

there is not prove that God all the sins equal in the eyes of God.

However, many Christians don't believe that God views sin as we do. Therefore, your question is flawed and misguided at its premise. That is kind of what I've been trying to tell you all along. It's like asking the following, "Do you Christians see the sky as rose-red or as cherry-red?" Well, the answer is that Christians see the sky as 'blue', not any kind of red. Your question implies certain preselected answers.

don't avoid to answer my question ,by giving the exmeple of " ask rose or red , or bleu"

 

[Eliot Wild]

don't misunderstand me I respect you, and my question is not a joke or i try to lay a trap as you saying , I want to know how the christians value the killing of Jesus (pbuh) ? and if the new testement condamne the killers .

To my interpretation, the New Testament condemns all killing. Jesus instructed that we were to treat others the way we would want to be treated, that would certainly include NOT killing other people. All killing is therefore wrong.

:clap all sin is equal in the eyes of God ....lol , that mean ... the lie, steal , the rape , the killing , ....etc , all are the sin value at God !!!
let me explain :
if some one bit you its the same for god if He kill you ?
if some one lie to you , its same if he rape your daughter ? (sorry of this eg)

there is not prove that God all the sins equal in the eyes of God.

Do you have proof that all sins are not equal in the eyes of God? I don't believe anyone can prove how God views sin, therefore all thoughts on the subject are ultimately only beliefs. Besides, you didn't ask for proof. You asked what Christians believed. I simply told you what some christians believe. And you want to laugh at them for their beliefs? That's fine, I suppose. I find it a bit strange too. However, I think it a bit tactless to laugh at their beliefs in the Christians Dir.

But again, you don't appear to be asking questions out of respect for another's beliefs and in an attempt to learn more about them. It appears you are here to challenge their beliefs and to laugh and ridicule other's concepts of God and sin.

don't avoid to answer my question ,by giving the exmeple of " ask rose or red , or bleu

I have no idea what you are trying to say here. But I certainly have not avoided your question. Do you honestly think I would have spent this much time and this many paragraphs in sincere response to your inquiry if I was trying to avoid your question?

As a matter of fact, I have tried to explain as thoroughly as possible how your question is obviously not intended to gain an understanding of others beliefs and how it is a blatant attempt to challenge answers which the question itself pre-supposes. I am trying to be patient because it is also obvious that English is your second language, and I respect the fact that you have taken the time to learn it thereby allowing you to discuss religious beliefs with others. So maybe your unfamiliarity with English makes it impossible for you to see how you question is flawed at its premise, or at least it is if you demand that certain answers are unacceptible.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

So far I agree with nothing you have said.

Your view on...
The Bible
Adam
Jesus
Sin
Punishment
Christian beliefs

Are all totally inaccurate.

We believe none of your statements and beliefs you ascribe to us.

If Muslims believe as you do, God help them

God does not measure sin... He measures your soul.

 

[arimoff]

I think Google translate has a problem understanding you question as a result so do we.

 

[Nerthus]

So far I agree with nothing you have said.

This is the first time I read through this thread and yep, I agree with you, but will give it a shot.

 

[Nerthus]

My question is :
what is the awful sin (greater) sin between this two sins ???

I don't know if this is anywhere near the answer you are wanting, but here is my response.

Yes, there are varying degrees of sin. Of course telling a lie is nowhere near as bad as murdering someone. But, like the Bible says all sin separates you from God. So even if you only tell a little lie, you receive the same punishment (separation) from God. To me, the difference between Adam's sin and the sin of those who killed Jesus is the law around it. Today I would be sinning by telling a lie, but I am much less likely to be arrested for it, than if I killed a man. As God forgives sin through repentance - to Him, sins are equal.

 

[Godobeyer]

I don't know if this is anywhere near the answer you are wanting, but here is my response.

Yes, there are varying degrees of sin. Of course telling a lie is nowhere near as bad as murdering someone.

thanks you very very much , I proud of you , at the end some one understand me .

But, like the Bible says all sin separates you from God. So even if you only tell a little lie, you receive the same punishment (separation) from God. To me, the difference between Adam's sin and the sin of those who killed Jesus is the law around it. Today I would be sinning by telling a lie, but I am much less likely to be arrested for it, than if I killed a man. As God forgives sin through repentance - to Him, sins are equal.

now you talking at when God forgives sin repentance to him , sins are equal ,
do you have verse from the Bible mention to this case ?

let me tell you something I guess you are talking about the sins after the forgivenss , not before .... of course they become equal . because it's does not matter what a sin you did (it's over)

 

[Nerthus]

now you talking at when God forgives sin repentance to him , sins are equal ,
do you have verse from the Bible mention to this case ?

I will post some later on, I have to go out now. But, this one does come to mind:
“The blood of Jesus purifies us from every sin” (1 John 1:7). It shows that through trust and faith in Jesus, God is willing to forgive whatever sin we have committed - so if we lie or kill - He will still forgive it equally.

let me tell you something I guess you are talking about the sins after the forgivenss , not before .... of course they become equal . because it's does not matter what a sin you did (it's over)

I believe that a sin is a sin, whatever you have done will effect God and distance ourselves from Him. But, obviously in today's society the law will deem murder as a much worse 'sin' than telling a lie, or even stealing. In religious terms they become equal in Gods eyes if we repent for them, yes. If we don't repent, the sin remains the same (equal), but you just continue to push that forgiveness away.

 

[Godobeyer]

I believe that a sin is a sin, whatever you have done will effect God and distance ourselves from Him. But, obviously in today's society the law will deem murder as a much worse 'sin' than telling a lie, or even stealing. In religious terms they become equal in Gods eyes if we repent for them, yes. If we don't repent, the sin remains the same (equal), but you just continue to push that forgiveness away.

I guess you did not understand me , of course the sin is a sin (not tomato , just joking ) , the sin is not equal , as we agreed the sins are degrees (level) , (eg lie , not as killing , not as steal , ....) at the human being law and the God law .
don't tell that if you lie to some one it the same if you kill his whole family !!!
, but God as you said give his forgivenss...to each sin.

i will give you another good eg:
we have many kinds of cars : big car,small car , tall car ,short car,faster car,slow car, new car , old car , and the name of company and serie JMC, land rover ,honda ..etc, each one of them is a car , but they are different , its the same at the sin ....they are different