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What is the meaning of Acts 1:9-11?

Samael_Khan

Qigong / Yang Style Taijiquan / 7 Star Mantis
Presumably they thought they saw a body taken up, but the text does not say body, it says he.

That is probably what they were describing, even though it is ridiculous, as bodies do not rise up into the clouds, unless you believe in Superman.

Okay, I did not know the context since I am not very familiar with the Bible. The verses most likely refer to a body going up.

I guess so.

I will concede to that, but my new argument is that this is just what some men wrote, nothing that ever really happened.
Do you believe that everything in the Bible actually happened as written?

"He" is not necessarily referring to a body, although that is probably what they were referring to.

It is just a different interpretation. I don't need it because nothing is needed to refute the ridiculous belief that the body of Jesus went up in the clouds to heaven and that same body will return from heaven in the clouds and land feet first on the ground. There is practically nothing more absurd in the Bible, except the stories about Jesus rising from the dead and walking around town.
I think the issue might be that you are not very familiar with the bible. You absolutely have to understand the context in order to understand the bible, especially the narratives.
 

Samael_Khan

Qigong / Yang Style Taijiquan / 7 Star Mantis
E. According to the Urantia Revelation, Jesus vanished from their sight just as he did on the other appearances like Luke 24:30-32 after he returned from the death of his mortal body in a new form. The UB also explains that the dead mortal body of Jesus was dematerialized, taken out of the tomb and returned to the dust! Each time Jesus appeared in the new form he would suddenly appear and suddenly vanish! No floating off into clouds! Stories get embellished when retold sometimes. IMOP
What us the Urantia Revelation?
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Matthew ch17 1-9

1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. 4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. 5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. 6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. 7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid. 8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only. 9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

All the above occurrences appear literally to be physical events until we note that Christ says ‘tell no man the vision’.

Passages such as above confirm that those passages such as resurrection and hearing voices out of clouds and Moses and Elias appearing were NOT bodily or physical occurrences but ‘visions’ as Christ stated and its very interesting that He told His disciples not to mention this ‘vision’ until after He had risen from the dead indicating that His rising from the dead was a spiritual vision.

The reason the church and Christians refuse to consider the resurrection was very much a vision is because it then takes away their superiority assertion that Christ is greater than the Messengers of all other faiths and gives them a reason to denounce all other religions.
 
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Colt

Well-Known Member
What us the Urantia Revelation?
The Urantia Book revelation happened in the early 1900's in Chicago. Its a massive tome that covers quite a lot of material. Its the foundation of my theology and beliefs. From God the Father, the universe, the history of our worlds evolution, spirituality, religion and the entire life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth birth to ascension. IMOP

Its free on the net
 

Samael_Khan

Qigong / Yang Style Taijiquan / 7 Star Mantis
The Urantia Book revelation happened in the early 1900's in Chicago. Its a massive tome that covers quite a lot of material. Its the foundation of my theology and beliefs. From God the Father, the universe, the history of our worlds evolution, spirituality, religion and the entire life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth birth to ascension. IMOP

Its free on the net
Oh awesome! I will check it out.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Matthew ch17 1-9

1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. 4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. 5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. 6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. 7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid. 8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only. 9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

All the above occurrences appear literally to be physical events until we note that Christ says ‘tell no man the vision’.

Passages such as above confirm that those passages such as resurrection and hearing voices out of clouds and Moses and Elias appearing were NOT bodily or physical occurrences but ‘visions’ as Christ stated and its very interesting that He told His disciples not to mention this ‘vision’ until after He had risen from the dead indicating that His rising from the dead was a spiritual vision.

The reason the church and Christians refuse to consider the resurrection was very much a vision is because it then takes away their superiority assertion that Christ is greater than the Messengers of all other faiths and gives them a reason to denounce all other religions.

So the transfiguration was a vision, whatever that may be, but why do you say that this story shows that the resurrection was not bodily or physical?
Do you really think that is what this sentence means?
Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Interesting. I don't mean it is physical body, but that it can be like a physical body, meaning that it can be for example seen like a physical body.
I agree, since I think a spiritual body might 'look like' a physical body, only not be physical.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Fair enough - these events are all happening after Jesus died. Elsewhere (John 20), Jesus's post-death body is physical enough for Thomas to poke his fingers into Jesus's wounds, but I suppose there's no rule that says things have to be this way every time.

I do think it's fair to say that we can conclude that the body was recognizable as Jesus, though.
I agree, but a spiritual body that 'looks like' the physical body of Jesus would be recognizable as Jesus.
People believe ridiculous things You've argued for many things that I consider ridiculous; this doesn't mean I should consider you insincere, does it?
I did not say I think that people who believe that the body of Jesus rose up into the clouds are insincere, I only said that I think it is ridiculous.
Absolutely not. But this doesn't mean that the author isn't trying to express that things did actually happen as written.
I agree that is probably the case, since there would be no reason for the author to write something that he did not believe happened.
There's plenty of material in the Bible that I think was meant to be taken literally and is just wrong. This passage is an example.
I agree. The bodily resurrection of Jesus from His grave is another example.
I think it's reasonable to conclude that "he" refers to something that's recognizable as Jesus, and not different enough in appearance from Jesus's physical body for the author to think it's worth noting.
Again I agree, but as I said above, it could have been the spiritual body of Jesus that 'looked like' the physical body of Jesus, which would be recognizable as Jesus.
Heh... if you want more absurdities than that, I can give you plenty. Be warned, though: there's a lot of crossover between biblical absurdities and Baha'i belief.
Please give me some examples of 'crossover' between biblical absurdities and Baha'i belief that you consider absurd.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Just to clarify.

Is the question about what the verses mean or whether we believe that they are true accounts of history?

Because i would say that the meaning is (a).

But I believe (b) with the addition that the story is a combination of reality and fiction.
a. I believe that Jesus ascended into the physical clouds in the sky in His resurrection body in front of His disciples. I also believe that Jesus will return to earth, descending from heaven on the clouds.

b. I do not believe that Jesus ascended into the physical clouds in the sky in His resurrection body in front of His disciples. I also do not believe that Jesus will return to earth, descending from heaven on the clouds.

c. I believe that those verses have another meaning, different from what @Brian2 believes. They are about the return of Christ, but not about the return of the same man who was called Jesus.

d. I believe that those verses are only part of a made-up fictional story, not about anything that ever happened or ever will ever happen.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You said: "But I believe (b) with the addition that the story is a combination of reality and fiction."
Can you explain what you mean by that? What in the story do you think is reality and what do you think is fiction?


I am glad I started this thread because I have never discussed this with anyone other than @Brian2, and now that I can see what other people think I see these verses on a new light.

I would say that what the authors intended to convey is (a).
But I believe (b) and (d).

I realize that the meaning the authors intended to convey was not (c) but that has always been my interpretation, since I believe those verses could only mean what I believe happened.

I now see my mistake. I was trying to combine what I believe as fiction as per (d) with what I believe actually happened in reality as per (c).

Below is my interpretation.

Acts 1:9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. 10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

The disciples (Men of Galilee) were staring up into the sky. The two men dressed in white (angels) came along and asked why they were staring up into the sky. The two men dressed in white then wondered why the disciples were staring up into the sky, and then they said that the same Jesus who was taken up to heaven will return as he went to heaven. The text does not say that the disciples saw a body go up to heaven.

I believe it was the Christ Spirit that ascended, not a body, which is why the angels wondered why the disciples were staring into the sky, since there was nothing to look at that the disciples could see; but angels can see spirits, so the angels could see the spirit of Jesus ascend into the clouds.

"This same Jesus .... will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven"

I believe that means that the same spirit of Jesus (the Christ Spirit) will come down from heaven and will appear in the form of a human being who has the Christ Spirit. Though delivered from the womb of Mary, the soul of Jesus came down from heaven. The soul of the man who has the Christ Spirit (and thus is the return of Christ) will come down from heaven in the same way that Jesus came down from heaven. He will be sent by God.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
E. According to the Urantia Revelation, Jesus vanished from their sight just as he did on the other appearances like Luke 24:30-32 after he returned from the death of his mortal body in a new form. The UB also explains that the dead mortal body of Jesus was dematerialized, taken out of the tomb and returned to the dust! Each time Jesus appeared in the new form he would suddenly appear and suddenly vanish! No floating off into clouds! Stories get embellished when retold sometimes. IMOP
Thanks. That makes a lot of sense and explains a lot of things we read in the Bible.

I believe that if Jesus was seen after the death of his mortal body it would have been in a new form which I refer to as a spiritual body.
The spiritual body could have looked just like His physical body to the people who saw Jesus, yet not be physical.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I think the issue might be that you are not very familiar with the bible. You absolutely have to understand the context in order to understand the bible, especially the narratives.
You are right about that, as I am not very familiar with the Bible, and I am not familiar with the chapters and verses in the New Testament that contain the resurrection accounts.
 
@Brian2 and I have been discussing the following verses and what they mean for over 10 years. The discussion began on another forum and it has continued here. This thread was inspired by the following post on another thread.

In post #690, @Brian2 said:
We start off with the idea that Jesus rose bodily from the dead, as the gospels stories tell us. Then we have the disciples and Jesus (in His resurrection body presumably) ascending in front of His disciples and being hidden by cloud.
It's not complicated really. Just read it slowly and think about it as you do, I'm sure you will be able to see it. Give it a go.

Acts 1:9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. 10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”


I could not figure out how to insert a Poll, so please select one or more from the following options.

a. I believe that Jesus ascended into the physical clouds in the sky in His resurrection body in front of His disciples. I also believe that Jesus will return to earth, descending from heaven on the clouds.

b. I do not believe that Jesus ascended into the physical clouds in the sky in His resurrection body in front of His disciples. I also do not believe that Jesus will return to earth, descending from heaven on the clouds.

c. I believe that those verses have another meaning, different from what @Brian2 believes. They are about the return of Christ, but not about the return of the same man who was called Jesus.

d. I believe that those verses are only part of a made-up fictional story, not about anything that ever happened or ever will ever happen.
A
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Matthew ch17 5-9

5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. 6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. 7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid. 8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only. 9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

All the above occurrences appear literally to be physical events until we note that Christ says ‘tell no man the vision’.
So the voice that the disciples heard out of the cloud was the voice of God. All of that was a vision, not anything that literally happened.

I wonder why Jesus said: Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

As a Baha'i I believe that Son of man risen from the dead refers to the 'return of the Son of man' who was the return of Christ in the person of Baha'u'llah.
I believe that Jesus was a Comforter and Baha'u'llah was another Comforter who brought to remembrance everything that Jesus said.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


I believe that the coming of the Son of man in the clouds is the return of the Son of man in the clouds.

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

I believe that 'Son of man coming in the clouds' means that the return of Christ will appear in the form of another human being. The term “clouds” as used in the Bible means those things that are contrary to the ways and desires of men. Just like the physical clouds prevent the eyes of men from beholding the sun, these things hindered men from recognizing the return of Christ.

In other words, the judgment of most people was clouded when Christ returned and it is still clouded for most people.

One thing that clouds the judgment of Christians is their desire for the same Jesus to return to earth.
Passages such as above confirm that those passages such as resurrection and hearing voices out of clouds and Moses and Elias appearing were NOT bodily or physical occurrences but ‘visions’ as Christ stated and its very interesting that He told His disciples not to mention this ‘vision’ until after He had risen from the dead indicating that His rising from the dead was a spiritual vision.
I think that Jesus' vision of 'rising from the dead' could have been a spiritual vision of what Jesus knew would happen in the future, when His spirit returned in the person of Baha'u'llah.
The reason the church and Christians refuse to consider the resurrection was very much a vision is because it then takes away their superiority assertion that Christ is greater than the Messengers of all other faiths and gives them a reason to denounce all other religions.
I think that the church and Christians really believe what they believe, but as you said they refuse to consider the resurrection was not a physical resurrection but only a vision. On perhaps an unconscious level I think they refuse to even consider the possibility that they might be wrong because it would take away their superiority assertion that Christ is greater than the Messengers of all other faiths, which gives them a reason to denounce all other religions.
 
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loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
So the transfiguration was a vision, whatever that may be, but why do you say that this story shows that the resurrection was not bodily or physical?
Do you really think that is what this sentence means?
Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
It speaks for itself that it is recorded that the disciples had a vision of the Heavenly Father, Moses and Elias and when they awoke they found that only Jesus was really there and He told them not to tell the vision to anyone. So during His Ministry the disciples had visions and spiritual dreams that were not physical realities and this is one example.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
So the voice that the disciples heard out of the cloud was the voice of God. All of that was a vision, not anything that literally happened.

I wonder why Jesus said: Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

As a Baha'i I believe that Son of man risen from the dead refers to the 'return of the Son of man' who was the return of Christ in the person of Baha'u'llah.
I believe that Jesus was a Comforter and Baha'u'llah was another Comforter who brought to remembrance everything that Jesus said.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


I believe that the coming of the Son of man in the clouds is the return of the Son of man in the clouds.

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

I believe that 'Son of man coming in the clouds' means that the return of Christ will appear in the form of another human being. The term “clouds” as used in the Bible means those things that are contrary to the ways and desires of men. Just like the physical clouds prevent the eyes of men from beholding the sun, these things hindered men from recognizing the return of Christ.

In other words, the judgment of most people was clouded when Christ returned and it is still clouded for most people.

One thing that clouds the judgment of Christians is their desire for the same Jesus to return to earth.

I think that Jesus' vision of 'rising from the dead' could have been a spiritual vision of what Jesus knew would happen in the future, when His spirit returned in the person of Baha'u'llah.

I think that the church and Christians really believe what they believe, but as you said they refuse to consider the resurrection was not a physical resurrection but only a vision. On perhaps an unconscious level I think they refuse to even consider the possibility that they might be wrong because it would take away their superiority assertion that Christ is greater than the Messengers of all other faiths, which gives them a reason to denounce all other religions.
The problem is that Christians have been deceived by their own clergy and are ‘joining partners with God’ by only believing what they say. And so it becomes a very severe test for them to recognise that Christ has returned in the glory of the Father.

By the righteousness of God! These are the days in which God hath
proved the hearts of the entire company of His Messengers and Prophets, and beyond
them those that stand guard over His sacred and inviolable Sanctuary, the
inmates of the celestial Pavilion and dwellers of the
Tabernacle of Glory. How severe, therefore, the test to which they who join
partners with God must needs be subjected!”


Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh
Bahá’u’lláh

So the ‘entire company of His Messengers and Prophets have been proved‘ true, all of the Prophets are true yet Christianity claims that only Christ is true and exalted above all other Prophets which it calls ‘false prophets’. So by exalting their priests to the station of gods (joining partners with God) it is no wonder Christians are finding it severely difficult to even investigate Baha’u’llah even though we know their very spiritual life depends upon it.

proved
  1. 1.
    demonstrate the truth or existence of
 
Matthew ch17 1-9

1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. 4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. 5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. 6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. 7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid. 8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only. 9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

All the above occurrences appear literally to be physical events until we note that Christ says ‘tell no man the vision’.

Passages such as above confirm that those passages such as resurrection and hearing voices out of clouds and Moses and Elias appearing were NOT bodily or physical occurrences but ‘visions’ as Christ stated and its very interesting that He told His disciples not to mention this ‘vision’ until after He had risen from the dead indicating that His rising from the dead was a spiritual vision.

The reason the church and Christians refuse to consider the resurrection was very much a vision is because it then takes away their superiority assertion that Christ is greater than the Messengers of all other faiths and gives them a reason to denounce all other religions.
That’s not the reason, Believers understand the Scriptures when they say in plain language who Jesus Christ is and one of those books of the Bible is Revelation of Jesus Christ:
”Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”“
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭1‬:‭7‬-‭8‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
He has the marks in His body:
”The other disciples therefore said to him, “We have seen the Lord.” So he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.” And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you!” Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”“
‭‭John‬ ‭20‬:‭25‬-‭27‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
He eats food and says He isn’t a spirit but flesh and bones, resurrected:
”And He said to them, “Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts? Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.” But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, “Have you any food here?” So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb. And He took it and ate in their presence.“
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24‬:‭38‬-‭39‬, ‭41‬-‭43‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
The problem is that Christians have been deceived by their own clergy and are ‘joining partners with God’ by only believing what they say. And so it becomes a very severe test for them to recognise that Christ has returned in the glory of the Father.

By the righteousness of God! These are the days in which God hath
proved the hearts of the entire company of His Messengers and Prophets, and beyond
them those that stand guard over His sacred and inviolable Sanctuary, the
inmates of the celestial Pavilion and dwellers of the
Tabernacle of Glory. How severe, therefore, the test to which they who join
partners with God must needs be subjected!”


Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh
Bahá’u’lláh
I thought that passage you quoted could be confusing to people reading your post since it was confusing to me, so I looked up all the references to 'joining partners with God' in Gleanings and I posted the most pertinent passage below.

I guess you are saying that Christians have been deceived by their clergy because their clergy have joined partners with God.
Did you mean that the clergy have ‘joined partners with God’ because they somehow believe they are associates and partners of God, since they imagine themselves to be exponents of God?

Some, deluded by their idle fancies, have conceived all created things as associates and partners of God, and imagined themselves to be the exponents of His unity. By Him Who is the one true God! Such men have been, and will continue to remain, the victims of blind imitation, and are to be numbered with them that have restricted and limited the conception of God.​
He is a true believer in Divine unity who, far from confusing duality with oneness, refuseth to allow any notion of multiplicity to becloud his conception of the singleness of God, who will regard the Divine Being as One Who, by His very nature, transcendeth the limitations of numbers.​
The essence of belief in Divine unity consisteth in regarding Him Who is the Manifestation of God and Him Who is the invisible, the inaccessible, the unknowable Essence as one and the same. By this is meant that whatever pertaineth to the former, all His acts and doings, whatever He ordaineth or forbiddeth, should be considered, in all their aspects, and under all circumstances, and without any reservation, as identical with the Will of God Himself. This is the loftiest station to which a true believer in the unity of God can ever hope to attain. Blessed is the man that reacheth this station, and is of them that are steadfast in their belief.​
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
It speaks for itself that it is recorded that the disciples had a vision of the Heavenly Father, Moses and Elias and when they awoke they found that only Jesus was really there and He told them not to tell the vision to anyone.

They had a vision (they saw things) and heard the Father's voice.
It does not say that they were asleep.
It does not say that Moses and Elias did not actually appear to and speak to Jesus. It does not say that Jesus did not actually shine.
"Vision" means what they saw.

So during His Ministry the disciples had visions and spiritual dreams that were not physical realities and this is one example.

The gospels tell us of this one vision and then you use this one thing to claim that the disciples had other visions that were not physical realities.
Then this enables you to dismiss the reality of anything in the gospels that you don't want to believe actually happened. (various miracles, resurrection etc)
Interesting.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
..............................In post #690, @Brian2 said:
We start off with the idea that Jesus rose bodily from the dead, as the gospels stories tell us. Then we have the disciples and Jesus (in His resurrection body presumably) ascending in front of His disciples and being hidden by cloud.
It's not complicated really. Just read it slowly and think about it as you do, I'm sure you will be able to see it. Give it a go.
Acts 1:9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. 10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”
I could not figure out how to insert a Poll, so please select one or more from the following options.
a. I believe that Jesus ascended into the physical clouds in the sky in His resurrection body in front of His disciples. I also believe that Jesus will return to earth, descending from heaven on the clouds.
b. I do not believe that Jesus ascended into the physical clouds in the sky in His resurrection body in front of His disciples. I also do not believe that Jesus will return to earth, descending from heaven on the clouds.
c. I believe that those verses have another meaning, different from what @Brian2 believes. They are about the return of Christ, but not about the return of the same man who was called Jesus.
d. I believe that those verses are only part of a made-up fictional story, not about anything that ever happened or ever will ever happen.
No, Jesus did Not rise physically/bodily.
Rather Jesus used materialized bodies after he was resurrected back to his previous pre-human heavenly body.
Remember: ' Flesh and blood ' (physical) can Not inherit Heaven - see 1st Cor. 15:50
Remember: On the road to Emmaus the disciples did Not recognize the resurrected Jesus - Luke 24:13-16
They were kept from recognizing Jesus because Jesus was Not in his old physical body.
Remmeber: a physical body does Not appear in a closed indoor room as Jesus did at John 20:19,26.
Plus, at 1st Peter 3:18 we find the word 'spirit' Jesus made alive (resurrected) in the spirit, his heavenly spirit body.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
a. I believe that Jesus ascended into the physical clouds in the sky in His resurrection body in front of His disciples. I also believe that Jesus will return to earth, descending from heaven on the clouds.

b. I do not believe that Jesus ascended into the physical clouds in the sky in His resurrection body in front of His disciples. I also do not believe that Jesus will return to earth, descending from heaven on the clouds.

c. I believe that those verses have another meaning, different from what @Brian2 believes. They are about the return of Christ, but not about the return of the same man who was called Jesus.

d. I believe that those verses are only part of a made-up fictional story, not about anything that ever happened or ever will ever happen.
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Below is my interpretation.

Acts 1:9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. 10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

The disciples (Men of Galilee) were staring up into the sky. The two men dressed in white (angels) came along and asked why they were staring up into the sky. The two men dressed in white then wondered why the disciples were staring up into the sky, and then they said that the same Jesus who was taken up to heaven will return as he went to heaven. The text does not say that the disciples saw a body go up to heaven.

The text tells us that the disciples saw Jesus going up and that a cloud hid Him from their sight.

I believe it was the Christ Spirit that ascended, not a body, which is why the angels wondered why the disciples were staring into the sky, since there was nothing to look at that the disciples could see; but angels can see spirits, so the angels could see the spirit of Jesus ascend into the clouds.

We are told that the disciples saw Jesus ascend and that a cloud hid Him from their sight.
They kept looking and the angel asked why. There was nothing to see because the cloud had hidden Jesus from their sight.
Do you think that the disciples saw an invisible spirit ascend or what?

"This same Jesus .... will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven"

I believe that means that the same spirit of Jesus (the Christ Spirit) will come down from heaven and will appear in the form of a human being who has the Christ Spirit. Though delivered from the womb of Mary, the soul of Jesus came down from heaven. The soul of the man who has the Christ Spirit (and thus is the return of Christ) will come down from heaven in the same way that Jesus came down from heaven. He will be sent by God.

The text tells us that the same Jesus, not the same Christ Spirit.
The disciples had seen Jesus ascend (not an invisible spirit) and the same Jesus, whom they had seen ascend, would return.
 
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