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What is the Nature of Life (Debate)

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
What exactly is Life about?



Play! Life is all about play. All species do it, of all ages. And even natural selection could be seen as analogous to play.


"In contrast to foraging and hunting – behaviors with clearly defined goals – play is likewise undirected. When a pony frolics in a field, a dog wrestles with a stick or chimpanzees chase each other, they act with no goal in mind.


Natural selection is utterly provisional: The evolution of any organism responds to whatever conditions are present at a given place and time. Likewise, animals at play are acting provisionally. They constantly adjust their movements in response to changes in circumstances. Playing squirrels, faced with obstacles such as falling branches or other squirrels, nimbly alter their tactics and routes."

Could we learn more about our place in the macrocosm by watching the animals play? By learning to play ourselves?
 

rocala

Well-Known Member
An interesting post. It made me think of a time where I was in work and out at the backdoor, awaiting a delivery. I saw a mouse peeking out of a hole. It eventually crept out very cautiously. Seconds later another mouse appeared at the same hole. It sneaked up on the first one and bit its tail. It then ran like hell with the first mouse in hot pursuit. They chased around for some time and then went home into their hole.

It amazed me to see that even these little creatures have a sense of fun.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
What exactly is Life about?



Play! Life is all about play. All species do it, of all ages. And even natural selection could be seen as analogous to play.


"In contrast to foraging and hunting – behaviors with clearly defined goals – play is likewise undirected. When a pony frolics in a field, a dog wrestles with a stick or chimpanzees chase each other, they act with no goal in mind.


Natural selection is utterly provisional: The evolution of any organism responds to whatever conditions are present at a given place and time. Likewise, animals at play are acting provisionally. They constantly adjust their movements in response to changes in circumstances. Playing squirrels, faced with obstacles such as falling branches or other squirrels, nimbly alter their tactics and routes."

Could we learn more about our place in the macrocosm by watching the animals play? By learning to play ourselves?

IMO, cognizant life is addicted to their feelings/sensations. When we don't get enough of this simulation in the normal process of life we create a situation or fantasy to create more of this stimulation.

When a horse dances about in a field, it is looking for a specific biochemical reaction which makes it feel good.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
What exactly is Life about?

theconversation.com

At its core, life is all about play − just look at the animal kingdom

Reduced to its essence, the process of natural selection would look a lot like play.
theconversation.com
theconversation.com
Play! Life is all about play. All species do it, of all ages. And even natural selection could be seen as analogous to play.

"In contrast to foraging and hunting – behaviors with clearly defined goals – play is likewise undirected. When a pony frolics in a field, a dog wrestles with a stick or chimpanzees chase each other, they act with no goal in mind.

Natural selection is utterly provisional: The evolution of any organism responds to whatever conditions are present at a given place and time. Likewise, animals at play are acting provisionally. They constantly adjust their movements in response to changes in circumstances. Playing squirrels, faced with obstacles such as falling branches or other squirrels, nimbly alter their tactics and routes."

Could we learn more about our place in the macrocosm by watching the animals play? By learning to play ourselves?
Click to expand...
What makes life possible is water. DNA is important because it is the template material, that provides mRNA templates, that are used to make raw protein. These raw protein are not bioactive until they are folded and packed by the water, via surface tension based water and oil effect. Without water nothing is bioactive or alive.

The state we call life, occurs at the secondary bonding level of the organic materials within water. Due to the shear numbers of water molecules in any aspect of life, and their continuous 3-D hydrogen bonding matrix, water is the dominate secondary bonding force in life. All the organics have to obey the needs of water, which gives everything the proper shapes and positions, so the cell can work as an integrated whole. If you add any other solvents, all things will pack and order differently, or not at all, and no sign of life will appear, right down enzymes. Life on earth evolved in water and powerful secondary bonding nature of water created natural molecular selection at the nanoscale.

Hydrogen bonding is not only important to water, but Is also part of all the main organic elements; DNA, RNA and protein, since these all evolved within water; abiogenesis. The hydrogen bonding of water and the organics is also connected to movement of information at the nanoscale. The hydrogen bond is mostly polar with some partial covalent character. If is like a tiny binary switch, between polar-covalent or charge-magnetism, that can move, information around the cell, with each setting having a different muscle. Besides preparing all the active biomaterials shapes and places it can move information so it can adapt to changes; equilibrium water-organic response.

The second aspect of life is the 2nd law. The entropy of the universe has to increase. This is the drive of nature to higher complexity, such as in play and adapting to new situations. Unlike energy which is conserved, entropy must increase, so even evolution much go forward due tø the entropy increase of the second law. Because of the water and oil effect, the entropy of the biomaterial structures tends to lower. In other words, an unpacked protein wiggling free can express more entropy; complexity, that one that is packed by water and unable to stretch out. Water creates a system wide lowering of organic structural entropy; entropic potential. The is an added potential beyond just the 2nd law for change; enzymatic and living.

The brain uses the same principles of water and entropy. Neurons expend over 90% of their metabolic energy pumping and exchanging sodium and potassium cations. All the energy is lowering cationic entropy; segregation and concentration of each cation. This add entropic potential. When neurons fire cationic entropy increases. Our sensory systems are wired into the brain to fire neurons. Therefore by using the five senses we satisfy the 2nd law. The urge to play is a rapid use of our sensory systems and muscles, all of which feed the 2nd law to overcome the deficit created by water and ion pumping/exchange.

The brain is like a fountain of increasing entropy, that flows to the core of the brain where it is distributed to the body and brain. All that touches this stream of increasing entropy gets more complex over time, with the excess, the basis of what we call consciousness and learning potential.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Play! Life is all about play. All species do it, of all ages. And even natural selection could be seen as analogous to play.
IMO, cognizant life is addicted to their feelings/sensations. When we don't get enough of this simulation in the normal process of life we create a situation or fantasy to create more of this stimulation.

When a horse dances about in a field, it is looking for a specific biochemical reaction which makes it feel good.

I'd refine these ideas a bit. First off, the researcher Jaak Panksepp was one of the first to demonstrate that all mammals play. And that play doesn't stop when adulthood is reached. We also know that many birds play, especially the smarter species.

It's not clear that less "smart" species play. Lizards, maybe? Insects, I'd guess not. So there seems to be a general rule that the more a species has to learn to survive, the more it plays.

As for the "biomechanical reaction", while true, I don't think that's a very useful observation. I think far more useful is to take the perspective of motivation science. In motivation science, the highest form, the most robust, self-sustaining form is INTRINSIC motivation. And play is a great example of INTRINSIC motivation. And yes, that does involve biomechanical reactions.

There is also a high correlation between having a brain, and needing to move. And indeed, play is now seen as one of the most effective ways for an individual to learn to move. Another interesting / terrifying data point is that these days training AIs uses approaches very, very similar to "play".
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
What exactly is Life about?



Play! Life is all about play. All species do it, of all ages. And even natural selection could be seen as analogous to play.


"In contrast to foraging and hunting – behaviors with clearly defined goals – play is likewise undirected. When a pony frolics in a field, a dog wrestles with a stick or chimpanzees chase each other, they act with no goal in mind.


Natural selection is utterly provisional: The evolution of any organism responds to whatever conditions are present at a given place and time. Likewise, animals at play are acting provisionally. They constantly adjust their movements in response to changes in circumstances. Playing squirrels, faced with obstacles such as falling branches or other squirrels, nimbly alter their tactics and routes."

Could we learn more about our place in the macrocosm by watching the animals play? By learning to play ourselves?
I can't debate you on this because I agree with you. I think life is meant to be as enjoyable as possible for each living being.

Play is a huge aspect of the experience.

Ask my cats! *grin*
 

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
I'd refine these ideas a bit. First off, the researcher Jaak Panksepp was one of the first to demonstrate that all mammals play. And that play doesn't stop when adulthood is reached. We also know that many birds play, especially the smarter species.

It's not clear that less "smart" species play. Lizards, maybe? Insects, I'd guess not. So there seems to be a general rule that the more a species has to learn to survive, the more it plays.

As for the "biomechanical reaction", while true, I don't think that's a very useful observation. I think far more useful is to take the perspective of motivation science. In motivation science, the highest form, the most robust, self-sustaining form is INTRINSIC motivation. And play is a great example of INTRINSIC motivation. And yes, that does involve biomechanical reactions.

There is also a high correlation between having a brain, and needing to move. And indeed, play is now seen as one of the most effective ways for an individual to learn to move. Another interesting / terrifying data point is that these days training AIs uses approaches very, very similar to "play".

I would like to add to what you said here about insects, and mention some recent studies show they may play as well. Bees especially.


 
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