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What is the Swamp?

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
Everyone has heard the term Swamp that was coined by President Trump. But what exactly is the Swamp?

I have been think about this and I would like to present my interpretation.

The Swamp appears to be centered on the US Government Bureaucracy. The jobs in government can be held for life. It is almost impossible to fire anyone, except for a few extreme circumstances. Therefore the people in government jobs often linger for decades and will see elected officials come and go.

Full retirement is 85 points, which is the sum of your age plus years of company service. For example a 55 year old with 30 years of employment can retire with full pension. This means they started at 25 years old and would have seen 8 presidential elections while employed in the government.

The jobs in the bureaucracy, often come in batches, based on the priorities of each new Administration. For example, green energy will be a major theme in new hiring for the Biden Administration. This will create a wave of fresh employees, with shared interest, that will linger decades even after the Administration is gone. This wave, like all the previous waves, will have people who will work their way up the company ladder and in 20-30 years will be top dogs in their part of the bureaucracy. They will have a certain level of glory days bias and loyalty from their early days when they started their careers.

The Cold War years, for example, led to a lot of hiring in the various intel agencies; spy versa spy. This wave of young career men and women, are now older and at the top of the food chain in their areas. However, there is a time warp, between the current world, and that world of times gone by.

The bureaucratic aspect of the swamp is like a large ship with a lot of pulses of inertia; waves of employees. The spirit from each wave of the past, lingers via the lifetime employees who have been rising up in ranks as older waves retire.This keeps the ship on a time average course, that cannot easily turn on a dime. This is useful for stability even in unstable times. Each generational wave, by their choice of government service, are patriots in their own ways, but with a parallel bias based on the times when they first came on board. It is sort of like how the music of high schools tends to stick with you the deepest, even if you stay current.

This is only the foundation of the swamp. Beyond the bureaucratic ship, are the career politicians and the long term contractors and their lobbyists, that help spend the money that is administered by the bureaucratic state. There are terms limits for President, but no term limits on the Congress, the Senate and the Supreme Court. Contractors are also part of the big ship and many will linger due to the needs of the bureaucracy. These also have attachments to the past and will attempt to keep that alive, but now from connections higher up in the pecking order.

The Constitution sets up checks and balances to keep the swamp in check less unelected officials with rank and power take over the ship.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Everyone has heard the term Swamp that was coined by President Trump. But what exactly is the Swamp?

I have been think about this and I would like to present my interpretation.

The Swamp appears to be centered on the US Government Bureaucracy. The jobs in government can be held for life. It is almost impossible to fire anyone, except for a few extreme circumstances. Therefore the people in government jobs often linger for decades and will see elected officials come and go.

Full retirement is 85 points, which is the sum of your age plus years of company service. For example a 55 year old with 30 years of employment can retire with full pension. This means they started at 25 years old and would have seen 8 presidential elections while employed in the government.

The jobs in the bureaucracy, often come in batches, based on the priorities of each new Administration. For example, green energy will be a major theme in new hiring for the Biden Administration. This will create a wave of fresh employees, with shared interest, that will linger decades even after the Administration is gone. This wave, like all the previous waves, will have people who will work their way up the company ladder and in 20-30 years will be top dogs in their part of the bureaucracy. They will have a certain level of glory days bias and loyalty from their early days when they started their careers.

The Cold War years, for example, led to a lot of hiring in the various intel agencies; spy versa spy. This wave of young career men and women, are now older and at the top of the food chain in their areas. However, there is a time warp, between the current world, and that world of times gone by.

The bureaucratic aspect of the swamp is like a large ship with a lot of pulses of inertia; waves of employees. The spirit from each wave of the past, lingers via the lifetime employees who have been rising up in ranks as older waves retire.This keeps the ship on a time average course, that cannot easily turn on a dime. This is useful for stability even in unstable times. Each generational wave, by their choice of government service, are patriots in their own ways, but with a parallel bias based on the times when they first came on board. It is sort of like how the music of high schools tends to stick with you the deepest, even if you stay current.

This is only the foundation of the swamp. Beyond the bureaucratic ship, are the career politicians and the long term contractors and their lobbyists, that help spend the money that is administered by the bureaucratic state. There are terms limits for President, but no term limits on the Congress, the Senate and the Supreme Court. Contractors are also part of the big ship and many will linger due to the needs of the bureaucracy. These also have attachments to the past and will attempt to keep that alive, but now from connections higher up in the pecking order.

The Constitution sets up checks and balances to keep the swamp in check less unelected officials with rank and power take over the ship.
EXACTLY!

And THE SWAMP is in both parties!

Correction... there is a term limit on the Senate. We need to institute a term limit on House of Representatives.
 

joe1776

Well-Known Member
When I think of the swamp, I think of the lobbying effort and the money spent in campaign contributions which determines how the voting on the issues will turn out as opposed to legislators voting their conscience after an intelligent review of the options.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
I think it was the political right that coined the phrase following Trump. But I think it was a misnomer.
shutterstock-517369813.jpg


What Is The Importance Of Swamps? - WorldAtlas
 

Secret Chief

Very strong language
Political parties in government have permanent (ie that's their job) staff to administer and deliver government policies, irrespective of the hue of the party in power. Quite a standard part of a democratic structure. Of course it would have been great if the entire civil service was staffed by trumpers then they would be so much better placed to ditch all that annoying democracy stuff.

- The Role of Civil Servants
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
When I think of the swamp, I think of the lobbying effort and the money spent in campaign contributions which determines how the voting on the issues will turn out as opposed to legislators voting their conscience after an intelligent review of the options.
And that's also what comes to my mind as well.

As oft been said, "We have the best government money can buy".
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Everyone has heard the term Swamp that was coined by President Trump. But what exactly is the Swamp?
What Trump meant by the swamp was law enforcement like the FBI and federal prosecutors, ethical members of the government like those who did oversight, members of congress who are working to fight fraud, etc.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/07/cor...or-general-overseeing-2-trillion-package.html

Trump wanted a political environment that had little oversight and no legal accountability. His calling all the ethical law enforcement agencies and personnel as part of the swamp was an effort to discredit any criticisms and legal threat against him. Of course he assumed he would be re-elected and would be protected from the law, and that did not happen. He faces more and more legal jeopardy as reporting of his misconduct grows.

So the swamp is Trump and his collection of supporters despite his fraud and corruption.

The Constitution sets up checks and balances to keep the swamp in check less unelected officials with rank and power take over the ship.
Which is why Trump needs to be indicted for any crimes he has committed. Law and order.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Everyone has heard the term Swamp that was coined by President Trump. But what exactly is the Swamp?

I can't say what Trump meant by it, although I think many people might interpret it as a reference to a perceived culture of corruption at the highest levels of power. Others might express similar ideas in less dramatic terms, typically railing against "special interests." Reagan once warned against "iron triangles."

The underlying perception seems to be that those in positions of power associated with "the swamp" are those who are not interested in using their position to make America a better place or to make life better for Americans. The perception is that they're just in it for themselves, to feather their own nests. They don't really believe in freedom or democracy, as money and profit for the wealthy is far more important to them.

The entire basis for the Cold War was fraudulent. It wasn't about freedom, not when it entailed installing business-friendly dictatorships in Iran, Chile, South Vietnam, and numerous other places. Even decades after the Cold War ended, the same fraudulent practices still go on.

It was all about money and profits, and it continues to be such. It's about making the rich richer and the poor poorer. That's the very essence of "the swamp." Personally, I've preferred the word "slime" to refer to the pro-capitalist elements in the ruling class.

I think someone once said "Ye shall know them by their fruits," and in that sense, "the swamp" might be measured in terms of its "fruits" - the results and consequences of their actions and choices.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
And "swamp" is pejorative/bigoted speaking of wetlands which are too often unappreciated.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
And that's also what comes to my mind as well.

As oft been said, "We have the best government money can buy".
And then there were three.
I also thought "swamp" was referring to corrupt politicians and bureaucrats.
The career bureaucrats who don't care much about current politics, I call "deep state".
 

Yerda

Veteran Member
The civil service is the swamp, is possibly the most worrying thing I've heard from a Trump supporter in...well, days.
 

Alien826

No religious beliefs
These arguments (in the OP) can be applied to any large organization that has people that have been there a long time. Ever worked for this guy? He joined the company 30 years ago. He has moved to a management level mainly by having survived. His attitudes and values were shaped long ago and are ossified to a point where he considers them to be holy writ. You have better, tested ideas, and you try to suggest them to him. It's like pushing a 20 ton rock up a steep slope, he won't shift. You talk to his superiors and they show no interest. He's an institution. Now you're a troublemaker. Run, do not walk to another job!

Maybe there are a lot of swamps, not just in the Civil Service?
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
And then there were three.
I also thought "swamp" was referring to corrupt politicians and bureaucrats.
The career bureaucrats who don't care much about current politics, I call "deep state".
In a sense, they all are interconnected, imo, as craving money tends to corrupt and not just in one area.
 

Dao Hao Now

Active Member
Everyone has heard the term Swamp that was coined by President Trump. But what exactly is the Swamp?

I have been think about this and I would like to present my interpretation.

The Swamp appears to be centered on the US Government Bureaucracy. The jobs in government can be held for life. It is almost impossible to fire anyone, except for a few extreme circumstances. Therefore the people in government jobs often linger for decades and will see elected officials come and go.

Full retirement is 85 points, which is the sum of your age plus years of company service. For example a 55 year old with 30 years of employment can retire with full pension. This means they started at 25 years old and would have seen 8 presidential elections while employed in the government.

The jobs in the bureaucracy, often come in batches, based on the priorities of each new Administration. For example, green energy will be a major theme in new hiring for the Biden Administration. This will create a wave of fresh employees, with shared interest, that will linger decades even after the Administration is gone. This wave, like all the previous waves, will have people who will work their way up the company ladder and in 20-30 years will be top dogs in their part of the bureaucracy. They will have a certain level of glory days bias and loyalty from their early days when they started their careers.

The Cold War years, for example, led to a lot of hiring in the various intel agencies; spy versa spy. This wave of young career men and women, are now older and at the top of the food chain in their areas. However, there is a time warp, between the current world, and that world of times gone by.

The bureaucratic aspect of the swamp is like a large ship with a lot of pulses of inertia; waves of employees. The spirit from each wave of the past, lingers via the lifetime employees who have been rising up in ranks as older waves retire.This keeps the ship on a time average course, that cannot easily turn on a dime. This is useful for stability even in unstable times. Each generational wave, by their choice of government service, are patriots in their own ways, but with a parallel bias based on the times when they first came on board. It is sort of like how the music of high schools tends to stick with you the deepest, even if you stay current.

This is only the foundation of the swamp. Beyond the bureaucratic ship, are the career politicians and the long term contractors and their lobbyists, that help spend the money that is administered by the bureaucratic state. There are terms limits for President, but no term limits on the Congress, the Senate and the Supreme Court. Contractors are also part of the big ship and many will linger due to the needs of the bureaucracy. These also have attachments to the past and will attempt to keep that alive, but now from connections higher up in the pecking order.

The Constitution sets up checks and balances to keep the swamp in check less unelected officials with rank and power take over the ship.
Wow…..
When I started reading this post I was picturing a young student maybe a couple years into college.
So I glanced at the authors profile and was shocked to learn he is 65!

I am amazed at how short the memory and how poor the knowledge of history pervades the the citizenry of the US.

Trump did not coin either the phrase or the concept of “the swamp”.

Trump’s forte is hearing “what people are saying” and recognizing trigger words and phrases that people react to emotionally, then utilizing those words a phrases in vague enough terms to elicit emotional responses from people.
These people interpret it to mean what ever their perceived grievance may be, and thus think he is speaking to them.
The fact that many/most of these people only have vague understanding of what it is that they are getting emotional about plays into his hands at manipulating them.

“Drain the swamp is a phrase which has frequently been used by politicians since the 1980s. The phrase can allude to the physical draining of swamps which is conducted to keep mosquito populations low in order to combat malaria,[1] prevalent during the time in Washington D.C. on supposed swampy grounds.[2] It has been used as a metaphor by:

  • Helen Hunt Jackson (1830–1885) who wrote that to "clear the swamp" (the first obvious step to reclaiming "poisonous and swampy wilderness") was an apt metaphor for how to start addressing "the disgrace to us of the present condition of our Indians."[3]
  • Winfield R. Gaylord (1870–1943) to describe the socialist desire to "drain" the "capitalist swamp".[1]
  • Victor L. Berger (1860–1929), who in his book Broadsides referred to changing the capitalist system as "drain[ing] the swamp".[4]
  • A. Philip Randolph (1889–1979) and Bayard Rustin (1912-1987) in A Freedom Budget for All Americans (1966), argued that "The breeding grounds of crime and discontent will be diminished in the same way that draining a swamp cuts down the breeding of mosquitoes, and the causes of discrimination will be considerably reduced."
  • Ronald Reagan, who called to "drain the swamp" of bureaucracy in the federal government in 1983 when commissioning The Grace Commission.[5][6]
  • Jessica Stern in "Preparing for a War on Terrorism" (November 2001), where she calls on the U.S. to see failing and failed states as sources and sanctuaries for terrorists and terrorism (the swamp) and to use foreign aid and soft power to combat them (the draining).[7]
  • Pat Buchanan during his 2000 presidential campaign , when he invoked the saying in opposition to the dominant political parties: "Neither Beltway party is going to drain this swamp: it's a protected wetland; they breed in it, they spawn in it".[8]
  • Nancy Pelosi in 2006 while announcing her 100-Hour Plan in response to more than a decade of Republican rule.[9][10]
  • Donald Trump to describe his plan to fix problems in the federal government.[1][11] In the three weeks before the 2016 election, he tweeted "Drain the swamp" 79 times, usually as a hashtag, and he tweeted the word "swamp" another 75 times in the four years following that election.[12] His 2020 campaign's senior advisor, Jason Miller,[13]and his 2020 campaign manager, Bill Stepien,[14] referred to the Commission on Presidential Debates as "swamp monsters." Protests against the role of Goldman Sachsalumni in the Trump administration also used the metaphor.”Drain the swamp - Wikipedia
 
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