What is Treason?

[Stevicus]

https://www.newsweek.com/what-treason-trump-putin-1026808

https://twitter.com/Dictionarycom/status/1018903934390464512

“Patriot: A person who loves, supports, and defends his or her country and its interests with devotion.

"Traitor: A person who commits treason by betraying his or her country."

In U.S. federal law, "treason" is defined as "whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere."

The U.S. Federal definition would imply that the U.S. must be at war (or at least have an "enemy").

Talleyrand stated that "Treason is only a matter of dates." Is there any merit to that argument? Are traitors always bad? Are patriots always good? A German patriot in 1940 might be seen as bad, while a traitor from the same time and place might be seen as good - at least now, since the dates are different.

Some people thought the anti-war protesters during the 60s and 70s were "traitors" for supporting a regime which we were at war against. Even before that, Joe McCarthy used to throw around accusations of "treason" all the time, and he did it so recklessly that he destroyed his own reputation.

Then there are those who might define "treason" even more loosely, with a variation of "those who are not with us are against us."

So, what is treason? What actions are required in order to brand someone a "traitor"? Conversely, what is a "patriot"?

 

[Augustus]

Traitors are people you strongly disagree with on a political issue.

 

[Twilight Hue]

https://www.newsweek.com/what-treason-trump-putin-1026808

https://twitter.com/Dictionarycom/status/1018903934390464512





The U.S. Federal definition would imply that the U.S. must be at war (or at least have an "enemy").

Talleyrand stated that "Treason is only a matter of dates." Is there any merit to that argument? Are traitors always bad? Are patriots always good? A German patriot in 1940 might be seen as bad, while a traitor from the same time and place might be seen as good - at least now, since the dates are different.

Some people thought the anti-war protesters during the 60s and 70s were "traitors" for supporting a regime which we were at war against. Even before that, Joe McCarthy used to throw around accusations of "treason" all the time, and he did it so recklessly that he destroyed his own reputation.

Then there are those who might define "treason" even more loosely, with a variation of "those who are not with us are against us."

So, what is treason? What actions are required in order to brand someone a "traitor"? Conversely, what is a "patriot"?

For me it's someone who intentionally goes out of his or her way to tangebly harm their own country and countrymen.

 

[PureX]

https://www.newsweek.com/what-treason-trump-putin-1026808

https://twitter.com/Dictionarycom/status/1018903934390464512





The U.S. Federal definition would imply that the U.S. must be at war (or at least have an "enemy").

Talleyrand stated that "Treason is only a matter of dates." Is there any merit to that argument? Are traitors always bad? Are patriots always good? A German patriot in 1940 might be seen as bad, while a traitor from the same time and place might be seen as good - at least now, since the dates are different.

Some people thought the anti-war protesters during the 60s and 70s were "traitors" for supporting a regime which we were at war against. Even before that, Joe McCarthy used to throw around accusations of "treason" all the time, and he did it so recklessly that he destroyed his own reputation.

Then there are those who might define "treason" even more loosely, with a variation of "those who are not with us are against us."

So, what is treason? What actions are required in order to brand someone a "traitor"? Conversely, what is a "patriot"?

I think the appropriate word for Trump is "treasonous", not "treason". It's not like he deserves to be shot for aiding an enemy in a time of war, but clearly he is willing to sell out his own country ideologically for the sake of his own whim, ego, and wallet.

 

[Revoltingest]

Traitors are people you strongly disagree with on a political issue.

Aye, that's the most prevalent usage.

 

[columbus]

Traitors are people you strongly disagree with on a political issue.

I realize that you are being a bit tongue in cheek here.

But no.

As much as I despised much of Bush II's policies, i never really thought about him as treasonous. Treason involves selling out the national interests to a hostile foreign power, usually for personal gain (although it might be ideology).

Trump, I believe, is doing that. Perhaps unwittingly, but I doubt that. I think he knows what he is doing(at some level) and simply cares more about his personal interests than the interests of the USA.

Same way he has treated his wives, investors, contractors, the taxpayers, and the Trump U students. All that matters to Trump is personal gain because that's "Smart". This is not news, he bragged about it in the campaign.
Tom

 

[Jumi]

Sometimes US positions aren't agreeable. Like keeping the cost of medicine high for poorer countries. If a US president changed their position (begun by Clinton and continued to today), would he be a traitor?

 

[sun rise]

adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere." The U.S. Federal definition would imply that the U.S. must be at war (or at least have an "enemy").

Putin has attacked our Democracy and is our enemy. Trump has given him "aid and comfort" at the very least and perhaps much more. This is prima facia evidence of treason. Ideally the House would start an investigation for possible impeachment but the lackeys and cowards won't do more than whine a bit.

Of course his supporters and apologists will deny that ANYTHING he says or does is evidence of a crime. But you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows. Even most of Fox, the Republican propaganda network, mostly criticized what he did in Helsinki.

 

[sun rise]

'Treason' Is Top Searched Word After Trump-Putin Press Conference

 

[Estro Felino]

adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere." The U.S. Federal definition would imply that the U.S. must be at war (or at least have an "enemy").

Putin has attacked our Democracy and is our enemy. Trump has given him "aid and comfort" at the very least and perhaps much more. This is prima facia evidence of treason. Ideally the House would start an investigation for possible impeachment but the lackeys and cowards won't do more than whine a bit.

Of course his supporters and apologists will deny that ANYTHING he says or does is evidence of a crime. But you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows. Even most of Fox, the Republican propaganda network, mostly criticized what he did in Helsinki.

Obama throughout 8 years defended the religion whose ideology produced Nine Eleven and many terrorist attacks in Europe.
That's treason to me.

 

[Stevicus]

I think the appropriate word for Trump is "treasonous", not "treason". It's not like he deserves to be shot for aiding an enemy in a time of war, but clearly he is willing to sell out his own country ideologically for the sake of his own whim, ego, and wallet.

I suppose it depends on how one views world affairs and the US role in it. For the longest time, even before the end of the Cold War, I recognized that both the US and Russia were hurting themselves by this pointless enmity. The fact that the major powers could not really see eye to eye or get along with each other is how so many other smaller powers became emboldened, which led to a number of crises and tyrannies and proxy wars, etc. The fact that we have trouble with nations like Iran or North Korea or anywhere in Africa or the Middle East is precisely because we couldn't establish any kind of friendly relationship with Russia.

We seem to be all cozy and friendly with China for all this time - and they've done some pretty crooked stuff as well. But even then, it hasn't been friendly enough to truly make them an ally.

I don't see it as being treasonous to pursue our own national interests for its own sake. I don't know what it means to sell out a country "ideologically." What we've been doing all along is internationalizing commerce and economics, which go hand in hand with politics. Now, we're somewhat belatedly learning that not everyone in the world plays politics the way we do, and we got stung. Some people see our "ideology" as being a great strength, but it can also be a weakness and vulnerability.

 

[columbus]

Obama throughout 8 years defended the religion whose ideology produced Nine Eleven and many terrorist attacks in Europe.
That's treason to me.

But he killed Osama binLaden, something nobody else managed.

The best bumper sticker in 2012 was "binLaden is dead! GM is alive! Vote Obama!"

Tom

 

[SkepticThinker]

Obama throughout 8 years defended the religion whose ideology produced Nine Eleven and many terrorist attacks in Europe.
That's treason to me.

Is that why he had Osama Bin Laden killed?

 

[Estro Felino]

But he killed Osama binLaden, something nobody else managed.

The best bumper sticker in 2012 was "binLaden is dead! GM is alive! Vote Obama!"

Tom

Throughout 8 years the Mediterranean area was destabilized, Libya and Sirya were destroyed by ISIS, millions of migrants and refugees invaded Europe causing us Europeans to spend billions to solve the matter

2016 Trump becomes president - ISIS is defeated everywhere

 

[Jumi]

Putin has attacked our Democracy and is our enemy.

I wonder if you look at recent history of the US and see your country in the same light? Your country is rather infamous for it.

Of course his supporters and apologists will deny that ANYTHING he says or does is evidence of a crime. But you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows. Even most of Fox, the Republican propaganda network, mostly criticized what he did in Helsinki.

Isn't that what apologists tend to do, no matter if they are pro-Trump, pro-Clinton or pro-Russia? Just be careful when lumping in others in the apologist group.

 

[Estro Felino]

I wonder if you look at recent history of the US and see your country in the same light? Your country is rather infamous for it.


Isn't that what apologists tend to do, no matter if they are pro-Trump, pro-Clinton or pro-Russia? Just be careful when lumping in others in the apologist group.

Their Russophobia hides a bit of anti-Europeism.
It's time to tell them the European Civilization has more in common with Russia than with them

 

[Jumi]

Their Russophobia hides a bit of anti-Europeism.
It's time to tell them the European Civilization has more in common with Russia than with them

I wouldn't say that.

 

[Estro Felino]

I wouldn't say that.

I still don't understand their hostility to a country who, like other Slavic nations, is part of our European identity.

 

[Windwalker]

Obama throughout 8 years defended the religion whose ideology produced Nine Eleven and many terrorist attacks in Europe.
That's treason to me.

Have you ever defended the Christian religion from those whose religious ideologies created the Crusades? You're a Catholic, right? Are you a traitor to Christ?

 

[Jumi]

I still don't understand their hostility to a country who, like other Slavic nations, is part of our European identity.

I don't care much about European identity either...