What is your Belief? A statistic for RF

[InvestigateTruth]

And is that an assumption on your part?

Nope. It is according to Bahai Scriptures as well as previous Holy Books.

 

[CG Didymus]

Messengers have failed their mission, they have not changed the world. So if we take your line, it is God which has failed. Why believe in existence of such a unproven failed entity?

You are assuming that the mission of Messengers was to make everyone a believer, but that's not the case.

And is that an assumption on your part?

No, are you assuming that Aupmanyav is assuming that the mission of messengers was to make everyone a believer. I'd be really, really surprised if he was.

Nope. It is according to Bahai Scriptures as well as previous Holy Books.

I would hope that none of them were given the mission to make everyone a believer. But I to think that giving different messages to different people at different time and places has been a huge failure. Unless the mission was to get people arguing and debating over religious beliefs.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

No, are you assuming that Aupmanyav is assuming that the mission of messengers was to make everyone a believer. I'd be really, really surprised if he was.

I would hope that none of them were given the mission to make everyone a believer. But I to think that giving different messages to different people at different time and places has been a huge failure. Unless the mission was to get people arguing and debating over religious beliefs.

All holy Books agree, that, the purpose of God, has been to test and separate, a minor people, in each age, as the believers. The rest, do not pass from the gate:


“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it”
(Matthew 7:13-14)

"...in this Dispensation, not one amongst the renowned divines, in the grasp of whose authority were held the reins of the people, hath embraced the Faith. Nay, they have striven against it with such animosity and determination that no ear hath heard and no eye hath seen the like." Baha'u'llah


"Know verily that the purpose underlying all these symbolic terms and abstruse allusions, which emanate from the Revealers of God’s holy Cause, hath been to test and prove the peoples of the world; that thereby the earth of the pure and illuminated hearts may be known from the perishable and barren soil. From time immemorial such hath been the way of God amidst His creatures, and to this testify the records of the sacred books." Baha'u'llah

 

[Aupmanyav]

You are assuming that the mission of Messengers was to make everyone a believer, but that's not the case.

By what theists write, I believe that the mission of messengers was to make humans better and they have miserably failed in that.
@CG Didymus may note.

 

[CG Didymus]

All holy Books agree, that, the purpose of God, has been to test and separate, a minor people, in each age, as the believers. The rest, do not pass from the gate:


“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it”
(Matthew 7:13-14)

"...in this Dispensation, not one amongst the renowned divines, in the grasp of whose authority were held the reins of the people, hath embraced the Faith. Nay, they have striven against it with such animosity and determination that no ear hath heard and no eye hath seen the like." Baha'u'llah


"Know verily that the purpose underlying all these symbolic terms and abstruse allusions, which emanate from the Revealers of God’s holy Cause, hath been to test and prove the peoples of the world; that thereby the earth of the pure and illuminated hearts may be known from the perishable and barren soil. From time immemorial such hath been the way of God amidst His creatures, and to this testify the records of the sacred books." Baha'u'llah

Here I thought the mission of Baha'u'llah was to unite all people. But I think you're right... it was to divide and separate.

 

[CG Didymus]

By what theists write, I believe that the mission of messengers was to make humans better and they have miserably failed in that.
@CG Didymus may note.

Considering what became of some of the religions, I would say the messenger failed. With a religion like Christianity, whose fault is it that the followers messed things up? God didn't have Jesus write things down, so it's their fault the followers got things wrong.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

By what theists write, I believe that the mission of messengers was to make humans better and they have miserably failed in that.
@CG Didymus may note.

Yes, It seems so. It is really a difficult subject.
But, most Religions in a way have a concept of "predestination". This world, as it is now, with all its conditions, are created as per God's Will.
There is nothing that happens in the world, if God does not want it to happen.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Here I thought the mission of Baha'u'llah was to unite all people. But I think you're right... it was to divide and separate.

It is both. As far as we are talking about "believing in the most recent Faith", the mission of Baha'u'llah was to separate. But unity and peace, was also taught by Baha'u'llah, and those teachings, and the Will of God, have made the world in a way it is right now. Well in comparison with older Ages, humanity is more united. The affairs of international, is significantly increased. It is a relative thing, not absolute unity.

 

[Nakosis]

I picked being "atheists", but I'm just one, not plural.
I'm a weak atheist, ie, I disbelieve in gods, but can't
prove they don't exist. But I've a very very strong
speculation that none exist.

If gods do exist, they don't seem to have much to do with us. So kind of doesn't really matter if they exist or not.

And, if they do exist, I certainly have no idea what to believe about them so I'll just stick with not having any.

 

[CG Didymus]

It is both. As far as we are talking about "believing in the most recent Faith", the mission of Baha'u'llah was to separate. But unity and peace, was also taught by Baha'u'llah, and those teachings, and the Will of God, have made the world in a way it is right now. Well in comparison with older Ages, humanity is more united. The affairs of international, is significantly increased. It is a relative thing, not absolute unity.

It seems that religions kind of present themselves as having The Truth.... even the Baha'i Faith. That is enough, as you know, to cause all kinds of division. Then there is the division within a religion. So far, Baha'is haven't had to face any major challenge. They've been able to excommunicate the people that have tried to cause divisions.

I think a lot of people, including me, are fine and can agree with some of the basic teachings of the Baha'i Faith. Things like the oneness of humanity. For me, teachings like the oneness of religion and the oneness of God are a little more difficult to believe in. And this gets into whether a religion was "revealed" or not "revealed".

I believe that the people that wrote the Scriptures of some of the religions made it sound like a special person, spoke for God or the Gods, and told, or "revealed", what that God wanted from them. But I'm not so sure they were just making things up. You know like a story of the leader of the tribe going up a mountain and talking to God. And when he comes back, he has a bunch of laws for them to follow.

 

[Aupmanyav]

There is nothing that happens in the world, if God does not want it to happen.

Yeah, I agree with you. Ebola, Covid, earthquakes, tsunami, volcanoes, floods, snow, heat, famine, Ukraine, Gaza, rapes, murders. Nothing without God's desire.

 

[Isabella Lecour]

Please choose one of the options.

No, thank you.

I don't identify. Even with a poll, I don't place my identity, if I have one, as depending on the existence or lack there of a god.
My 'I am...' and 'I believe..' phrases does not come close to those options.
And religion is like taxes, of course it exists and no ever asks if one believes in revealed taxes or self-evident taxes. It's taxes. And like taxes, the benefits and harms to mankind are proven and clear. And like taxes, it exists as a structure that supports and enforces the existence of it.

My problem with this poll is simple, beyond the fact it failed to set up a debate, is the absolute arrogance of surety contained therein.

The juxtaposition of belief and identity used as synonyms poisons the well here that isn't even focused on debate here. There is nothing to debate here.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

No, thank you.

I don't identify. Even with a poll, I don't place my identity, if I have one, as depending on the existence or lack there of a god.
My 'I am...' and 'I believe..' phrases does not come close to those options.
And religion is like taxes, of course it exists and no ever asks if one believes in revealed taxes or self-evident taxes. It's taxes. And like taxes, the benefits and harms to mankind are proven and clear. And like taxes, it exists as a structure that supports and enforces the existence of it.

My problem with this poll is simple, beyond the fact it failed to set up a debate, is the absolute arrogance of surety contained therein.

The juxtaposition of belief and identity used as synonyms poisons the well here that isn't even focused on debate here. There is nothing to debate here.

What about option 5?
"I don't know yet. Not sure what I believe"?

 

[Isabella Lecour]

What about option 5?
"I don't know yet. Not sure what I believe"?

Fails to apply to me as I understand myself.

 

[Niatero]

It is both. As far as we are talking about "believing in the most recent Faith", the mission of Baha'u'llah was to separate. But unity and peace, was also taught by Baha'u'llah, and those teachings, and the Will of God, have made the world in a way it is right now. Well in comparison with older Ages, humanity is more united. The affairs of international, is significantly increased. It is a relative thing, not absolute unity.

I'm curious. Do you believe everything that Baha'u'llah says, and do you believe in doing everything that he says to do?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I'm curious. Do you believe everything that Baha'u'llah says, and do you believe in doing everything that he says to do?

Yes to both.

 

[Niatero]

Please choose one of the options.

I wish you would watch a YouTube video about designing polls. To avoid falsifying the results, you should have included an "other" option.

The closest answer for me looks like "I don't know yet. Not sure what I believe." but that isn't actually true. I'm sure that I don't believe anything, or at least I try not to. I have views and ways of thinking, but I try not to have any belligerent attachment to any of them. There isn't anything in my views or ways of thinking that I think can not be wrong.

 

[Niatero]

Yes to both.

Does that mean that you believe in doing this?

Consider that which We have revealed in Our Most Holy Book: `When the ocean of My presence hath ebbed and the Book of My Revelation is ended, turn your faces toward Him Whom God hath purposed, Who hath branched from this Ancient Root.' The object of this sacred verse is none other except the Most Mighty Branch.

- KITÁB-I-`AHD

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Does that mean that you believe in doing this?

Yes

 

[Niatero]

Yes

Does that mean the you believe everything that Abdu'l-Baha says here, and you believe in doing everything he says here?

After the passing away of this wronged one, it is incumbent upon ... and the loved ones of the Abhá Beauty to turn unto Shoghi Effendi ... He is the expounder of the words of God ... The sacred and youthful branch, the Guardian of the Cause of God, as well as the Universal House of Justice, to be universally elected and established, are both under the care and protection of the Abhá Beauty, under the shelter and unerring guidance of the Exalted One (may my life be offered up for them both). Whatsoever they decide is of God. ... whoso deviateth, separateth himself and turneth aside from him hath in truth deviated, separated himself and turned aside from God. ... The mighty stronghold shall remain impregnable and safe through obedience to him who is the Guardian of the Cause of God.

And here?

And now, concerning the House of Justice which God hath ordained as the source of all good and freed from all error ...

And here?

O ye the faithful loved ones of ‘Abdu’l‑Bahá! It is incumbent upon you to take the greatest care of Shoghi Effendi, the twig that hath branched from and the fruit given forth by the two hallowed and Divine Lote-Trees, that no dust of despondency and sorrow may stain his radiant nature, that day by day he may wax greater in happiness, in joy and spirituality, and may grow to become even as a fruitful tree. For he is, after ‘Abdu’l‑Bahá, the Guardian of the Cause of God, the Afnán, the Hands (pillars) of the Cause and the beloved of the Lord must obey him and turn unto him. He that obeyeth him not, hath not obeyed God; he that turneth away from him, hath turned away from God and he that denieth him, hath denied the True One.

- Will and Testament of Abdu’l-Baha