What is your opinion of Jesus?

[Ben Dhyan]

Yes, ' flesh and blood...' (physical can Not inherit the kingdom...) 1st Corinthians 15:50 because those called to Heaven will have a resurrected heavenly spirit body as Jesus has.
The living figurative 'sheep' at Jesus coming Glory Time ( see Matt. 25:31-34,37 ) are alive here on Earth.
They'll see calendar Day One of Jesus' Millennium-Long Day governing (Not over Heaven) but governing over Earth.
Those resurrected to heavenly life have two (2) jobs to perform with Christ Jesus. - see Rev. 5:9-10
They will govern with Jesus as being both a king and a priest under Christ as High Priest and King.
* As kings they will take care of governmental responsibilities for people living on Earth
* As priests they will take care of spiritual duties towards people living on Earth.
The humble meek people who will inherit ( Not Heaven ) but inherit the Earth - Matt. 5:5; Psalms 37:9-11; 22:26

Ok, however the learned opinion wrt translation of "Earth" in Psalms 37:9 is that it should be "land" Psalm 37:9 - Do Not Envy Those who Do Wrong, and a case too for Land in Matt 5:5 What is meant by "inherit the earth"?
But in any event, no human soul is incarnate longer than a life time, since God's purpose for the soul is to unfold its potential in the relevant vehicle and environment involved, so it would not serve much purpose to stay incarnate after having realized the potential set. All incarnations of the spirit have a purpose in the unfolding of its potential, and once that purpose has been realized, the spirit leaves and moves on.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Ok, however the learned opinion wrt translation of "Earth" in Psalms 37:9 is that it should be "land" Psalm 37:9 - Do Not Envy Those who Do Wrong, and a case too for Land in Matt 5:5 What is meant by "inherit the earth"?
But in any event, no human soul is incarnate longer than a life time, since God's purpose for the soul is to unfold its potential in the relevant vehicle and environment involved, so it would not serve much purpose to stay incarnate after having realized the potential set. All incarnations of the spirit have a purpose in the unfolding of its potential, and once that purpose has been realized, the spirit leaves and moves on.

I like how you say 'the spirit leaves and moves on', but to where?
As God's spirit (Psalm 104:30) is a neuter "it" (Numbers 11:17,25) so is man's spirit a neuter "it"- see Ecclesiastes 12:7 B.
At death one's spirit "it" returns to God in the sense that a foreclosed house returns to the owner.
The house does not move going anywhere, but any future life for that house now lies in the hands of the owner.
So, if we are written in God's 'Book of Life' we can have a resurrection - Acts 24:15
There would be No need for a resurrection if one's spirit was a living spirit person.
The living do Not need a resurrection.
On the other hand, since father Adam was 'mortal' (Not death proof) so also are we his 'children', so to speak.

Yes, Psalm 37:9 KJV evildoers (those who do wrong - Psalm 55:23) will be cut off ( Not inherit the Earth )
At Psalm 37:29; 37:9 B we find the ones who wait upon the LORD will inherit the land - Matt. 5:5
Notice who takes possession of the land/Earth at Psalms 25:12-13; 22:26 <- whose heart lives forever.
A person's heart is: physical. A physical heart can gain everlasting life on Earth.

 

[Muffled]

You are confusing....Please define what you mean by spirit and what by mind.
Mind you I agree that everybody has the right to have their own beliefs, whether they are right or wrong, but belief is not knowledge.

spirit is a living entity without any known physicality.

Mind is the conscious part of the brain.

 

[Muffled]

He had some good teachings and some not so good teachings. God, no; teacher, yes.

I believe you are in error. All the teachings of God are good and Jesus is God in the flesh as scripture indicates.

 

[Muffled]

You say this because you are in inerrantist who believes the God somehow dictated the Bible to his secretaries. It brings us back to my first point, that the ONLY reason you think Jesus is God is your blind faith in the Bible, (and while it may not be conscious, Protestants have certainly been influenced by the Ecumenical Councils).

I also believe Jesus is God in the flesh because He has testified that He is to me.

 

[Ajax]

spirit is a living entity without any known physicality.

Mind is the conscious part of the brain.

Thank you.
Oxford languages gives this definition of spirit as the non-physical part of a person which is the seat of emotions and character; the soul.
I'm sorry but I have no means of accepting it exists and there is no reason of it's existence. Various tests suggest that emotions originate from activity in distinct regions of the brain. Three brain structures appear most closely linked with emotions: the amygdala, the insula or insular cortex, and a structure in the midbrain called the periaqueductal gray.
Character and behavior also originate from the brain. For example, Alzheimer disease alters completely one's behavior and character.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I also believe Jesus is God in the flesh because He has testified that He is to me.

When you say that "He testified that to me," that can only mean one of two things.

You could be meaning that the Bible teaches this. I have already responded to this sort of appeal to Scripture. I do not consider it evidence.

Or you could be hallucinating God's voice either in a major form, hearing it with your ears, or in a milder version, "sensing" some sort of communication inside your own head. In either case, this is not evidence either.

 

[paarsurrey]

What is your opinion of Jesus?


"chapter 17 of the Gospel of John"

It is to be read and understood as per Chapter 8 of Gospel of John, right?:
" 41 You do the works of your father. They said therefore to him: We are not born of fornication: we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus therefore said to them: If God were your Father, you would indeed love me. For from God I proceeded, and came; for I came not of myself, but he sent me: 43 Why do you not know my speech? Because you cannot hear my word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and he stood not in the truth; because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. 45 But if I say the truth, you believe me not."

Douay-Rheims Bible, John Chapter 8​

Catholic Bible Study Online, Douay-Rheims Version. Complete text, index, search, Bible verse, bible story, scripture, book, prophesy, christian ...
www.drbo.org
Right?
Since it is very clear from the above that Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah never considered himself G-d or son of G-d or Almighty G-d in literal and physical terms, please, right?
If it is so, then, to say that Jesus was G-d or son of G-d or Almighty G-d is no more than an accusation on Jesus by the Pauline Christianity people, right?

Regards

Regards

 

[Sand Dancer]

I believe you are in error. All the teachings of God are good and Jesus is God in the flesh as scripture indicates.

Separating families doesn't sound good unless it is meant as a metaphor for something.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I like how you say 'the spirit leaves and moves on', but to where?
As God's spirit (Psalm 104:30) is a neuter "it" (Numbers 11:17,25) so is man's spirit a neuter "it"- see Ecclesiastes 12:7 B.
At death one's spirit "it" returns to God in the sense that a foreclosed house returns to the owner.
The house does not move going anywhere, but any future life for that house now lies in the hands of the owner.
So, if we are written in God's 'Book of Life' we can have a resurrection - Acts 24:15
There would be No need for a resurrection if one's spirit was a living spirit person.
The living do Not need a resurrection.
On the other hand, since father Adam was 'mortal' (Not death proof) so also are we his 'children', so to speak.

Yes, Psalm 37:9 KJV evildoers (those who do wrong - Psalm 55:23) will be cut off ( Not inherit the Earth )
At Psalm 37:29; 37:9 B we find the ones who wait upon the LORD will inherit the land - Matt. 5:5
Notice who takes possession of the land/Earth at Psalms 25:12-13; 22:26 <- whose heart lives forever.
A person's heart is: physical. A physical heart can gain everlasting life on Earth.

" Spirit moves on" to where? To Heaven! That which is born of flesh is flesh, that which is born of spirit is spirit, unless you are born of the spirit, you will not see the kingdom of heaven. The body dies and decays, the soul that has attained to liberation from the flesh lives eternally in Heaven.
Act 24:15 concerning the hope of "resurrection" refers to those people, both good and evil, who will be resurrected because they were not yet born of the Heavenly spirit as an eternal, Souls of those who die before being born of the Heavenly spirit will always resurrect/reincarnate until they are born of the Heavenly spirit.
Yes, the living are resurrected/reincarnated. All the living are living due to God's spirit. There are none living without God's spirit. All physical living humans are mortal, when one is born of the spirit, their body dies and there is no more ressurection/reicarnation.
Psalm 37:29, Psalms 25:12, do not refer to becoming immortal in the flesh, merely the land will continue to be theirs. In which case, resurrection/reincarnation explains the way it works.
Btw, if there were a way for the human body to become immortal, what purpose would it serve? Think about it, wouldn't the eating of nice food, partaking of the pleasure of the body, enjoying games, fishing, etc., etc., become boring after a few hundred thousand years, would there be any way to opt out, for if not, it would be a good definition of Hell, and the silly part is that the God spirit expressing through the body would also be in Hell.

 

[InChrist]

Yes, Heaven is a spiritual domain (God lives in Heaven - 1st Kings 8:39) and so do the angels.
Spirit angels will never live on Earth. Adam was never an angel before living on Earth.
Adam was created to live forever on Earth. If Adam had Not broken God's Law Adam would be here alive today.
The 'goal' to eternal spiritual life in Heaven is God's choosing. God chooses who will govern in Heaven with Christ Jesus.
That is why those called to Heaven are referred to as Christ's 'brothers' - Rev. 2:10-11; 3:12; 12:10; 17:14; 19:10
You are Not alone in having No expectation of life on Earth as a soul or soul goal.
While alive Adam was a living soul ( Gen. 2:7 ) at death Adam became a dead soul, a life-less soul.
Remember: the soul that sins dies - Ezekiel 18:4,20 - so a dead person is a dead soul.
Otherwise, there would be No need for a resurrection if the dead person is alive - Acts 24:15

- www.jw.org

Ezekiel 18:4,20 refers to the physical person or soul dying, but I don’t think that refers to the eternal aspect of a person.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 says…Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

And Paul said…
We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:8).

The resurrection is necessary so that one’s spirit may be reunited with their new glorified, incorruptible, eternal body.

How does the Bible describe the glorified bodies we will possess in Heaven? | GotQuestions.org

How does the Bible describe the glorified bodies we will possess in Heaven? How will our glorified bodies be different from our current bodies?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[URAVIP2ME]

" Spirit moves on" to where? To Heaven! That which is born of flesh is flesh, that which is born of spirit is spirit, unless you are born of the spirit, you will not see the kingdom of heaven. The body dies and decays, the soul that has attained to liberation from the flesh lives eternally in Heaven.
Act 24:15 concerning the hope of "resurrection" refers to those people, both good and evil, who will be resurrected because they were not yet born of the Heavenly spirit as an eternal, Souls of those who die before being born of the Heavenly spirit will always resurrect/reincarnate until they are born of the Heavenly spirit.
Yes, the living are resurrected/reincarnated. All the living are living due to God's spirit. There are none living without God's spirit. All physical living humans are mortal, when one is born of the spirit, their body dies and there is no more ressurection/reicarnation.
Psalm 37:29, Psalms 25:12, do not refer to becoming immortal in the flesh, merely the land will continue to be theirs. In which case, resurrection/reincarnation explains the way it works.
Btw, if there were a way for the human body to become immortal, what purpose would it serve? Think about it, wouldn't the eating of nice food, partaking of the pleasure of the body, enjoying games, fishing, etc., etc., become boring after a few hundred thousand years, would there be any way to opt out, for if not, it would be a good definition of Hell, and the silly part is that the God spirit expressing through the body would also be in Hell.

True, those resurrected to heaven have a spirit body as resurrected Jesus has - Revelation 20:6
'flesh' ( physical ) can Not inherit the kingdom - 1st Corinthians 15:50
True, God is in Heaven (1st Kings 8:39) so one's spirit (IT) returns to God.
Please notice one's spirit (IT) Ecclesiastes 12:7 B is Not a spirit person but a neuter "IT".
Adam was never a spirit person but fashioned or formed from the dust of the ground - Genesis 2:7
Adam, like us, was Mortal ( Never immortal ) Mortal Adam's purpose was to live forever on Earth - Genesis 1:28
It's the 'little flock' (smaller number Luke 12:32) who are resurrected to heavenly life to serve with Jesus - Rev. 5:9-10
Whereas, the 'other sheep' (larger number John 10:16) will inherit the Earth as Jesus promised - Matthew 5:5.
- Please mention which version you are using regarding Acts 24:15. KJV says, ' just and unjust ' ( Not evil )
The evil or the wicked are ' destroyed forever ' - Psalms 92:7; 104:35; 145:20; Proverbs 2:21-22
Remember Matthew 20:28 because Jesus' ransom covers MANY and does Not say ALL.

P.S. 'Biblical hell' is just mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead.
The dead know nothing because the dead are Not conscious - Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalm 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; John 11:11-14

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Ezekiel 18:4,20 refers to the physical person or soul dying, but I don’t think that refers to the eternal aspect of a person.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 says…Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.
And Paul said…
We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:8).
The resurrection is necessary so that one’s spirit may be reunited with their new glorified, incorruptible, eternal body.

Who are the ones addressed at 2nd Cor. 5:8 but those who will be putting on a heavenly dwelling - Rev. 20:6
Not all are part of that first or earlier resurrection. ALL those in Corinth (2 Cor. 1:1) are called to heavenly life.
They are Not part of the meek who will inherit the Earth but rather are like those of Luke 22:28-30.
They are part of the 'little flock' (Luke 12:32; 2nd Timothy 2:12; Rev. 1:6; 5:9-10) who are the saints/holy ones - Dan. 7:18

 

[Ben Dhyan]

True, those resurrected to heaven have a spirit body as resurrected Jesus has - Revelation 20:6
'flesh' ( physical ) can Not inherit the kingdom - 1st Corinthians 15:50
True, God is in Heaven (1st Kings 8:39) so one's spirit (IT) returns to God.
Please notice one's spirit (IT) Ecclesiastes 12:7 B is Not a spirit person but a neuter "IT".
Adam was never a spirit person but fashioned or formed from the dust of the ground - Genesis 2:7
Adam, like us, was Mortal ( Never immortal ) Mortal Adam's purpose was to live forever on Earth - Genesis 1:28
It's the 'little flock' (smaller number Luke 12:32) who are resurrected to heavenly life to serve with Jesus - Rev. 5:9-10
Whereas, the 'other sheep' (larger number John 10:16) will inherit the Earth as Jesus promised - Matthew 5:5.
- Please mention which version you are using regarding Acts 24:15. KJV says, ' just and unjust ' ( Not evil )
The evil or the wicked are ' destroyed forever ' - Psalms 92:7; 104:35; 145:20; Proverbs 2:21-22
Remember Matthew 20:28 because Jesus' ransom covers MANY and does Not say ALL.

P.S. 'Biblical hell' is just mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead.
The dead know nothing because the dead are Not conscious - Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalm 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; John 11:11-14

Please note that one's spirit which returns to God from whence it came (Ecclesiastes 12:7), and which you refer to it as a neuter 'IT', is the returning soul through which God interfaced with the body during the time the human was alive. A living soul refers to the living human being, who is comprised of a God spirit interface (soul), and the clay body. Now the soul that returns to God after an incarnation is not the same as the pure spirit the entered into the baby clay body at birth, it is now 'imprinted' with the life's experience of the living soul, and because it is not yet born of the Heavenly spirit, it cannot remain there eternally, so it must reincarnate until it is 'born of the spirit' and only then will it become an Heavenly immortal being.

Adam was as you and I, a living soul. There is nowhere in Genesis 1:28 that implies a mortal body would ever become an immortal body, but that mankind (Btw, did you know the Hebrew word Adam means red clay?) was to master the elements and lifeforms and to populate the planet and prosper. The little flock are those souls who are born of the spirit and no longer reincarnate.

Evil is destroyed forever when one is born of the Heavenly spirit, the living soul has been perfected and tested and no evil remains. There is always evil so long as God exists (which is forever). Isaiah 45:6-7 the Lord God is one. I create the light and the dark, the good and the evil. For all those of the bride of Christ in the coming judgement, no more evil ever.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Please note that one's spirit which returns to God from whence it came (Ecclesiastes 12:7), and which you refer to it as a neuter 'IT', i.............................................................................................................................................................................................................
Adam was as you and I, a living soul. There is nowhere in Genesis 1:28 that implies a mortal body would ever become an immortal body, but that mankind (Btw, did you know the Hebrew word Adam means red clay?) was to master the elements and lifeforms and to populate the planet and prosper. The little flock are those souls who are born of the spirit and no longer reincarnate.
Evil is destroyed forever when one is born of the Heavenly spirit, the living soul has been perfected and tested and no evil remains. There is always evil so long as God exists (which is forever). Isaiah 45:6-7 the Lord God is one. I create the light and the dark, the good and the evil. For all those of the bride of Christ in the coming judgement, no more evil ever.

Yes, interesting Adam as red clay and that is why sometimes Adam is portrayed as having red hair.
Yes, when God breathed the 'breath of life' into life-less Adam then Adam came to life - Gen. 2:7
( Adam went from non-life, to life, and at death returned back to non-life - Gen. 3:19 )
Yes, God exists forever - Psalm 90:2
Yes, God created light and dark. Yes, good but the 'evil ' at Isaiah 45:7 is in the form of calamity for the wicked.
In other words, the word evil in Scripture is Not always synonymous with wrong doing. - Amos 3:6
Calamity for the wicked in being destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7; 104:35; 145:20; Proverbs 2:21-22
We pray for God's will ( His purpose ) to be done on Earth as it is done in Heaven.
In Heaven there is No crime, No violence, No pollution, No war, No sickness and No death in Heaven.
In other words, only good ( Not evil ) exists in Heaven and we pray for only good to come exist on Earth.
Remember: God 'has' power, God 'has' mercy, God 'has' wisdom, but -> God "IS" love and God "IS" light.
Any thoughts about 1st John 1:5 _________________________________________________

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Yes, interesting Adam as red clay and that is why sometimes Adam is portrayed as having red hair.
Yes, when God breathed the 'breath of life' into life-less Adam then Adam came to life - Gen. 2:7
( Adam went from non-life, to life, and at death returned back to non-life - Gen. 3:19 )
Yes, God exists forever - Psalm 90:2
Yes, God created light and dark. Yes, good but the 'evil ' at Isaiah 45:7 is in the form of calamity for the wicked.
In other words, the word evil in Scripture is Not always synonymous with wrong doing. - Amos 3:6
Calamity for the wicked in being destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7; 104:35; 145:20; Proverbs 2:21-22
We pray for God's will ( His purpose ) to be done on Earth as it is done in Heaven.
In Heaven there is No crime, No violence, No pollution, No war, No sickness and No death in Heaven.
In other words, only good ( Not evil ) exists in Heaven and we pray for only good to come exist on Earth.
Remember: God 'has' power, God 'has' mercy, God 'has' wisdom, but -> God "IS" love and God "IS" light.
Any thoughts about 1st John 1:5 _________________________________________________

Isaiah 45:7, Isaiah 45:7 - God Calls Cyrus evil or calamity is the most common translation. Evil and Calamity in this context means evil/calamity as relatively experienced by living souls.

God's Divine will comes from Heaven and manifests on Earth, so yes, if God's Heavenly will is to destroy a city, the city will experience a calamity in human judgement. Think of it as cause and effect. God's Heaven is always in a state of Heavenly peace, so God's will is always moving in a way that maintains the Peaceful balance.

God's judgement is absolute, man's judgement is relative, dualistic. For some people, a specific event caused by God's will will be seen as good, others will see the same event as bad. Mankind is impacted by the forces of nature in this dualsitical way. Once a living soul has been born of the spirit, the dualistical perspective is transcended and only God's non-dual Heavenly peace remains.

Ok, so let's be clear, all dualistical complementary opposite concepts in our language apply to this world, and have meaning in the relative sense to fallen mankind (having eaten of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil), but there is no such duality in Heaven, all is Divine, Divine is of God, God is one, there is no other. God's Heavenly Light imbues all Heavenly souls/Angels always, there is no duality, no darkness. Hence 1 John 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.

For a human living soul, Heaven and Earth are as Light and Darkness, but a Heavenly soul would only experience Heavenly Light.
To recap, as a living soul, we experience a relative dualstical view of existence in the form good and bad, like and dislike, etc., a Heavenly soul otoh does not just experience Heavenly Light, it is Heavenly Light, it is one with God and God is Light.

Finally, a living soul which aspires to be born of the Heavenly spirit, must be prepared to sacrifice their living soul with its body self's dualistic perspective Flesh born of flesh is flesh, spirit born of spirit is spirit, unless you are prepared to give up your dualistic fleshly life, and be born of the spirit, you will not see the Kingdom of Heaven.

 

[firedragon]

I'm a Vishishtadvaitin Hindu, a non-dual philosophy. Jesus saying the Father and I are one is no different than me saying aham brahmāsmi

In the same book, chapter 17, Jesus speaks of his disciples, himself, and God the father being one. That does not mean they are one personhood or asseity

This "one" is not like what you are referring to. It's completely different.

 

[InChrist]

Who are the ones addressed at 2nd Cor. 5:8 but those who will be putting on a heavenly dwelling - Rev. 20:6
Not all are part of that first or earlier resurrection. ALL those in Corinth (2 Cor. 1:1) are called to heavenly life.
They are Not part of the meek who will inherit the Earth but rather are like those of Luke 22:28-30.
They are part of the 'little flock' (Luke 12:32; 2nd Timothy 2:12; Rev. 1:6; 5:9-10) who are the saints/holy ones - Dan. 7:18

Only the Watchtower with their aberrant teachings pull verses out of context and divide believers into two groups: heavenly and earthly. The biblical scriptures teach no such thing.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Only the Watchtower with their aberrant teachings pull verses out of context and divide believers into two groups: heavenly and earthly. The biblical scriptures teach no such thing.

Oh I don't know about that. It seems to me that all Christians are pretty good at yanking verses out of context.

 

[InChrist]

Oh I don't know about that. It seems to me that all Christians are pretty good at yanking verses out of context.

I didn’t exactly say many Christians aren’t guilty of doing so. It is certainly something that is done too often. But I don’t think that is the way the scriptures are to be read or entire theologies created.