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What is your opinion of Jesus?

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Ben Dhyan said: Dear Jesus and Mary, please forgive Aupie, he's just a naughty boy.
Aupie may be a descendent?

Most probably, the care-taker of Roz Bal and his clan are his descendants, not Aupmanyav. Muslims have this tradition of "Gaddi Nasheen" among Sufis and peers. Normally the chair goes to the eldest son.
Aupmanyav is a unrepentant 'kafir', does not believe even in the possibility of existence of God, messengers or soul. Jesus said:
Luke 13:3 - No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
 
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wellwisher

Well-Known Member
I'm curious on why people don't believe in Jesus?
Ephesians 6:12. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Satan was the given the job as the Lord of the Earth. Satan was in charge of humans and the earth after the Fall from paradise. Satan rules the realm of mankind from the fall, through the Old and New Testament, until Revelations. During that time Satan is condoned by Heaven. Adam and Eve chose law and Satan was the law expert. They got what they wanted; oppressive law, conquering armies and death.

Satan is the leader of the Spiritual forces of evil, in heavenly places, with his minions below, in leadership roles of culture; politicians. It is not the natural man that is at fault; flesh and blood. Satan, who is normally associated with evil, was condoned by God in heaven, during that span of time, as God rested on the seventh day. Like the human Sabbath, one does not work on the Sabbath, but hires others. God was like the chairman of the Board on sabbatical, and hires Satan as his CEO in charge of the humans, with his authority.

Before Jesus began his ministry, he went to the desert to fast and pray. He is approached by the Lord of the Earth, Satan, who among other things, offers Jesus all the wealth and glory of the kingdoms of the earth, if Jesus would bow down and serve him; Satan. Had Jesus accepted the offer, he would have become the anticipated Messiah of the Old Testament; rich and powerful and able to subdue their enemies. But by not accepting the offer, he messed up the prophesies of CEO, Satan, as God rested.

The temptations used fulfill Satan's prophesies of the Messiah, and Jesus's refusal to comply, would lead to political conflict in Heaven; Divine Women, which escalates into war; Michael the Archangel.

Revelations 1-9
1 A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads.4 His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born.5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.6 The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.7 And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven.9 The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

The red dragon is Satan. His seven heads are connected to the seven days of creation; 6 work days plus 1 day of rest. The ten horns or 1 and 0 are the symbols of male and female, connected to Adam and Eve, humans, and original sin; knowledge of good and evil and law. The ten horns are also the 10 Commandants. Seven crowns were the seven kingdoms of the Lord of the Earth, that Satan tries to give to Jesus in the desert to create his Messiah.

The Divine woman is clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet. She has a crown of 12 stars. The sun is the conscious mind and the moon is the unconscious mind. Her being clothed by the sun implies she is fully aware, without unconscious subjectivity; like instinct. The number twelve is connected to the 12 months of the year and the twelve fruit of the tree of life. The Divine Women is similar to Mother Nature and a return to paradise; new prophecy cycle. But this transitional time is very vulnerable; she pregnant and about to give birth. Her child; promise, is caught up to God and protected. The male child still has growing and maturing to do. God continues and finishes his rest while he baby sits and grooms the child; lamb of God.
Revelations 22:2 through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

The symbolism implies the Mosaic law stemmed from Satan in heavenly places, condoned by heaven, as God rested. Other than prestige, it was more of a curse to the Israelites, since it never reaches the promises of the Lord of the Earth; anticipated Messiah. It more or less isolated them, which caused many to leave the straight path, incite the wrath of the Lord of the Earth, and the kingdoms of the world to enslave them.

This symbolism has to do with an update in the human brain's operating system away from law for righteousness, and back to the tree of life; natural instinct and paradise on earth. This update occurs with Satan still doing the same things, as before, but while not being on God's payroll as his CEO; Satan not being condoned by Heaven.

Ephesians 6:12**. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil, now thrown to the earth and living among us.

However, the child slowly grows and matures like the progress bar of an update.
 
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Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Ben Dhyan said: Dear Jesus and Mary, please forgive Aupie, he's just a naughty boy.
Aupie may be a descendent?

Most probably, the care-taker of Roz Bal and his clan are his descendants, not Aupmanyav. Muslims have this tradition of "Gaddi Nasheen" among Sufis and peers. Normally the chair goes to the eldest son.
Aupmanyav is a unrepentant 'kafir', does not believe even in the possibility of existence of God, messengers or soul. Jesus said:
Luke 13:3 - No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
We shall see, eternity is a long time, everyone eventually repents. But please do it at your own pace, I don't mean to rush you.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Well I do not know of any religious denomination other than JW which believe humans will attain to immortality on Earth, so yes!
Immortality or everlasting life ?
I find Adam was never offered immortality (death proof) but live forever on Earth as long as he did Not break God's Law.
So, there is a BIG difference between being 'immortal' in Heaven (No death in Heaven) and having 'eternal life' on Earth as was originally offered to Adam ( an by way of extension us ) to enjoy everlasting life on Earth - Gen. 1:28

- www.jw.org
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Ok, some questions if I may.
Is the fleshly human body of the meek that will live forever on Earth a biological body like what we have now?
Is the world that the meek will live on this Earth with the same continents, oceans, atmosphere, etc., in the same Solar System?
Wow, what interesting questions ^ above^ and an inquiring mind wants to know.
I find Adam started out with a perfectly healthy human body. Adam could only sin on purpose, Not by accident as we can.
Please notice the word picture that Isaiah paints for us in Isaiah chapter 35.
A beautiful paradisical word picture scene of the earthly future for us ( meek who inherit the Earth )
Even the same animals but they will be a peace with mankind - Isaiah 11:6-9; Isaiah 65:21-25
This is because Jesus will have dominion governing over Earth - Psalm 72:8, 12-14
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Ok, so if you were 80 yo before you died, would your soul get the same 80yo body that you had before you died in the resurrection, if you were 20 yo before you died, then would you get the same 20yo body in the resurrection?
As far as the physical resurrection, Jesus resurrected people back to physical healthy life.
So, it would seen logical a sickly 20yo would come back as a healthy person.
Thus, an 80yo could look as they did as a young adult.
Either way, we will recognize each other because of personality.
( wear a snap shot of how you looked right before you died !)
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
We shall see, eternity is a long time, everyone eventually repents........................................................
Since we are all created with free-willed choices there is Nothing to prove everyone repents.
Jesus' ransom for mankind includes MANY according to Matt. 20:28 and does Not say ALL.
There would be No need for the wicked to be destroyed forever if they repented.

- Psalm 92:7; Psalm 104:35; Psalm 145:20; Proverbs 2:21-22; 2nd Peter 3:9
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Yes, those passages in Matthew and Psalms correspond. The Watchtower, nevertheless, distorts them and leaves out many other corresponding passages concerning the destiny of the meek; ALL those who have submitted to God) .
“For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.
Isaiah 65:17
“For as the new heavens and the new earth Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord, “So shall your descendants and your name remain. Isaiah 66:22
Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. Revelation 21:1
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. 2 Peter 3:10-13
Yes, the ^above^ is what I was taught in church and in science class the destruction of Earth.
One day I met a man who simply said to me, "I have good news for you" He read me Ecclesiastes 1:4 B. (Psalm 104:5)
I went over to a friend's house whose mother was a Sunday School teacher and had several Bible versions at home.
I opened up all the Bibles to Ecc. 1:4 and all said the Earth remains forever, abides forever, exists forever, etc.
So, I wanted to know more because both can't be right, either church and school are right or the Bible is right ?

In short, I found there were three (3) heavens and three (3) earths mentioned at 2nd Peter 3:5,7,13
First, we find the heavens and earth of OLD (Noah's day ) in verse 5
Second, we find the heavens and earth of NOW ( our day since Noah's day ) in verse 7
Third, we find the heavens and earth of NEW (NEW because of Jesus' coming 1,000 year reign over Earth) in verse 13
NEW because righteousness is to dwell and Not that Peter was speaking of destruction of the literal heavens and Earth.
Those heavens and earth referred to are symbolic of present corrupt human rulership and ungodly society.
So, Jehovah's Day (see Isaiah 13:9 Day of the LORD ) will Not destroy His heavenly home nor our atmospheric heavens (mid-heavens were the birds fly) but annihilate or destroy sinners.The wicked destroyed - Psalms 92:7; Proverbs 2:21-22
So, starting with the 'sheep' (Matt. 25:37) the Day of the LORD is a Day of Salvation - Ezekiel 9:4; Joel 1:1-2,31-32
Malachi 4:1,3 connects that time when the wicked (Not the Earth) being gone - Jeremiah 25:31-33
So, as the heavens and earth were made new in Noah's day by the violent people being gone, so it will be with our time.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
........Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. Revelation 21:1
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. 2 Peter 3:10-13
I have found a number of people take Rev. 21:1 literally that there was no more sea ( ocean )
Isaiah 57:20 connects sea to the restless sea of wicked mankind
Also, please notice Psalm 72:8 because this Psalm gives us a preview of how Jesus will relieve mankind of distresses
Jesus will have subjects, citizens, from -> 'sea to sea ' (ocean to ocean) see also, Zechariah 9:10 B (sea to sea)
Plus, we find weather phenomenon is Not beyond Jesus capabilities at Mark 6:47-51; Mark 4:39
Psalm 93 also that the world can Not be moved besides Psalms 104:5; 96:10
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
paarsurrey said:
It is useful to know about it from the Ahmadiyya official website:
Ahmadi Muslims hold the unique belief that Jesus (peace be upon him) survived the crucifixion and travelled towards India to continue his ministry among the Lost Tribes of Israel. Furthermore, they claim that his tomb, containing his body, has been recently re-discovered in India where it can be seen to this day. Ahmadi Muslims also assert that this belief is not only upheld by the Holy Quran and the Sayings of Muhammad (sa), but even by the Holy Bible itself.

Life before Crucifixion

Ahmadi Muslims believe that Jesus (as) was a Prophet of God born to the Virgin Mary and was the Messiah of the Israelites as foretold by Moses (as).
  • Virgin Birth: The miracle of his birth is affirmed by The Holy Quran. more
  • Son of God: Jesus used this metaphor for all believers, not just himself. more
  • His Miracles: A sign of his truth, like the many other prophets of God. more
  • His Mission: Confined to the twelve tribes of Israel, not the whole world. more

Survival from Crucifixion

Ahmadi Muslims claim that Jesus (as) survived the crucifixion because he was taken down from the cross in a state of unconsciousness — not death.
  • Sign of Jonah: Jesus foretold he would survive just like Jonah did. more
  • Blood and Water: Gushed from the spear wound, a sign of a beating heart. more
  • Prayer at Gethsemane: He prayed to be rescued from death on the cross. more
  • Short Duration: Death on the cross is meant to take days, not hours. more
  • Pilate’s Plot: Having sympathy for Jesus, he planned to save him. more
  • Healing Herbs: Used for healing the living — not embalming the dead. more
  • Unbroken Legs: This would have prevented death by respiratory distress. more
  • His Denial: Of being an apparition, baring his wounds he called for food. more

Life after Crucifixion

After his survival, Jesus (as) travelled as far as Kashmir, India and preached to the Lost Tribes of Israel. His tomb can be found there to this day.
  • Lost Tribes Found: He went towards India in search of the lost tribes. more
  • Tomb of Jesus: Recently discovered and preserved in Kashmir, India. more
  • Ancient Texts: Buddhist and Hindu texts confirm his
  • travels to the region. more
  • His Ultimate Victory: Saved from the cross, he completed his mission. more
Jesus – A Humble Prophet of God
Friend @Jedster
Thanks for your interest in the matter, please, right?
Thank you paarsurrey, what about his family, wife and children?
There are many people in those areas who claim to be the direct descendants/offspring of (Jesus)Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah, please, it could be checked on the internet, right?

Regards
____________
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Immortality or everlasting life ?
I find Adam was never offered immortality (death proof) but live forever on Earth as long as he did Not break God's Law.
So, there is a BIG difference between being 'immortal' in Heaven (No death in Heaven) and having 'eternal life' on Earth as was originally offered to Adam ( an by way of extension us ) to enjoy everlasting life on Earth - Gen. 1:28

- www.jw.org
A few more questions....
But if a JW were to do what the bible says we should do, love God with all one's heart, mind, soul, and strength, love one's neighbor as oneself, forgive everyone for any hurt to oneself, etc.., they would attain to a Heavenly eterntiy, why would any accept a second rate future being confined to a fleshly body forever?
And btw, what happens to a JW who sins while living forever on Earth?
And what about the flora and fauna on Earth during this time, do they live forever or just the JW folk?
Can the JW body get sunburnt if exposed to too much sunlight on a hot day in this everlasting life?
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Wow, what interesting questions ^ above^ and an inquiring mind wants to know.
I find Adam started out with a perfectly healthy human body. Adam could only sin on purpose, Not by accident as we can.
Please notice the word picture that Isaiah paints for us in Isaiah chapter 35.
A beautiful paradisical word picture scene of the earthly future for us ( meek who inherit the Earth )
Even the same animals but they will be a peace with mankind - Isaiah 11:6-9; Isaiah 65:21-25
This is because Jesus will have dominion governing over Earth - Psalm 72:8, 12-14
So will mankind kill and eat the animals even though they are at peace with mankind? Will some animals kill and eat other animals?
Can some people be greedy and become obese from overeating? Can people become sick from overeating? Can people, even though their bodies can live forever, accidently drown in deep water while swimming like happens in this world?
Will Jesus appear in this world in the flesh, or just in spirit?
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
As far as the physical resurrection, Jesus resurrected people back to physical healthy life.
So, it would seen logical a sickly 20yo would come back as a healthy person.
Thus, an 80yo could look as they did as a young adult.
Either way, we will recognize each other because of personality.
( wear a snap shot of how you looked right before you died !)
Can men and women get married and bring new children into the world?
What changes happen to the body of say a 10 year old that was resurrected as it ages, does it grow into an adult?
If so, what causes it to stop aging when it gets to be an adult?
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Since we are all created with free-willed choices there is Nothing to prove everyone repents.
Jesus' ransom for mankind includes MANY according to Matt. 20:28 and does Not say ALL.
There would be No need for the wicked to be destroyed forever if they repented.

- Psalm 92:7; Psalm 104:35; Psalm 145:20; Proverbs 2:21-22; 2nd Peter 3:9
So I can see how the bodies of the wicked can be destroyed, like all bodies, but what about the soul of the wicked human body self, it is the breath of God, that surely can't be destroyed for it is an aspect of God?
As it is in present nature, all physical creations of God have a beginning and an ending, that incudes stars, planets, all lifeforms, etc., so what happens to our star and earth when our life time gets to be longer than theirs', does God make them eternal like the humans, or are the humans moved to a younger star/planet?
Is this resurrected humanity able to develop technology such as space ships and go to other planets and star systems?
Can resurrected humans get killed in accidents, and are they resurrected again or is it the end of their life?
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Friend @Jedster , please.
My post #470 is about the descendants of (Jesus)Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah (not the Judaism people's one); it is very interesting to note that neither the Paulines nor the Zionists make mention of the people very near and dear to Yeshua like Mary the mother, Mary Magdalene, the Twelve where they all disappeared all of a sudden and where, please, right?

Regards
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
A few more questions....
But if a JW were to do what the bible says we should do, love God with all one's heart, mind, soul, and strength, love one's neighbor as oneself, forgive everyone for any hurt to oneself, etc.., they would attain to a Heavenly eterntiy, why would any accept a second rate future being confined to a fleshly body forever?
And btw, what happens to a JW who sins while living forever on Earth?
And what about the flora and fauna on Earth during this time, do they live forever or just the JW folk?
Can the JW body get sunburnt if exposed to too much sunlight on a hot day in this everlasting life?
Wow, you ask some very good question as an inquiring mind wants to know.
To me Adam did Not have a 'second rate' future of perfectly-healthy living forever on Earth - Gen. 2:17
The part about 'any living on Earth forever who sins' is what the thousand-year reign of Christ is about.
Please notice what Jesus will accomplish at 1st Corinthians 15:24-26 because it says enemy death will be no more.
Since there will be No more death on Earth (as there is No death in Heaven) that equals No more sin on Earth.
In the Bible I find it is sin that causes death. If we could stop sinning we would Not die.
So, by the end of the thousand years the faithful ones will have No wrong\ leanings No desire to sin.
Their leanings will only be toward /righteousness. Sin and death will be gone forever from Earth and its inhabitants.
Everlasting life was only offered to human life, so flora and fauna, would be healthy as described in Isaiah 35th chapter
Adam was told he could eat to satisfaction. To me that means Not over stuff himself.
So, over exposure to sun could also mean being exposed past a satisfactory amount of time.
Seems Adam had perfect human senses and his body would let him know when to stop eating, drinking, sunning, etc.
At this point of never tire of being with favorite people, or favorite foods, so I see no reason why that would ever stop.
I hope after Jesus sets up his thousand-year reign over Earth I will tire of sleeping too much !
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
So I can see how the bodies of the wicked can be destroyed, like all bodies, but what about the soul of the wicked human body self, it is the breath of God, that surely can't be destroyed for it is an aspect of God?
As it is in present nature, all physical creations of God have a beginning and an ending, that incudes stars, planets, all lifeforms, etc., so what happens to our star and earth when our life time gets to be longer than theirs', does God make them eternal like the humans, or are the humans moved to a younger star/planet?
Is this resurrected humanity able to develop technology such as space ships and go to other planets and star systems?
Can resurrected humans get killed in accidents, and are they resurrected again or is it the end of their life?
More excellent questions ^ above ^ Since our Earth abides forever (Ecclesiastes 1:4 B; Psalm 104:5 ) then God has it in His purpose for physical/material creation to continue as He sees fit. ( after all He named Earth, Earth - Gen. 1:10 )
I think a lot of people (I like Star Trek) think of the possibility of space travel, but how and where ?
No need to be killed in accidents because we will have human perfection over our senses. Perfectly healthy heart, mind and body.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Can men and women get married and bring new children into the world?
What changes happen to the body of say a 10 year old that was resurrected as it ages, does it grow into an adult?
If so, what causes it to stop aging when it gets to be an adult?
Seems to me the absence of sin causes the old-aging process to stop.
Why Not have children because there could very well be enough room to 'fill' aka populate the Earth - Gen. 1:28
Seems as if procreation will cease on Earth once Earth is full or fully populated ( Not over full or over populated )
Who knows at what point then other planets will then become populated.
Either way, Earth will Not become over-populated.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
So will mankind kill and eat the animals even though they are at peace with mankind? Will some animals kill and eat other animals?
Can some people be greedy and become obese from overeating? Can people become sick from overeating? Can people, even though their bodies can live forever, accidently drown in deep water while swimming like happens in this world?
Will Jesus appear in this world in the flesh, or just in spirit?
Animals, the animal kingdom, will be at peace with humanity - Isaiah 65:25; 11:6-9
Remember cattle or live stock can be used for farming purposes - Isaiah 30:23 B
People with perfect health will Not drown.
No, Jesus will Not appear in the flesh - John 14:19 - but we will live because he lives.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Well I do not know of any religious denomination other than JW which believe humans will attain to immortality on Earth, so yes!
I'd like to follow up a little about immortality. The Almighty God is not subject to death. He is the source of all life. We can look at a few phrases in the Bible that helps to explain. Psalm 90:1,2 says,

"Lord, You have been our dwelling place through all generations.
Before the mountains were born or You brought forth the earth and the world,
from everlasting to everlasting You are God."


How do you feel about this description of God?
 
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