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What makes a moderate become an extremist?

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
As I was reading the thread regarding Trump's allegation of Obama wiretapping, some thoughts came up in relation to how both sides in the campaign accused the other of being "extreme." I never actually believed that Trump or Hillary were as "extreme" as some of their opponents paint them, but as I was thinking about the general topic, I wanted to see what others thought about the basic concepts of "moderation" vs. "extremism."

Where is the line between "moderate" and "extremist"?

What makes someone, who might have been raised "moderate" in a politically moderate environment, turn into an "extremist"? An example might be someone like Albert Speer, who was ostensibly moderate while growing up and reaching adulthood, yet still ended up joining the Nazi Party and serving an extremist regime. However, after the war, he expressed regret over his crimes and (like many in his position) tried to claim that he was suckered in - much in the same manner that wayward youth join religious cults or get caught up in street gangs.

But for whatever reason, I find myself skeptical of such explanations. For one thing, it makes moderates seem too naive and easily led. It makes it appear that these otherwise well-meaning, well-adjusted, and innocent people would not have turned into extremists if they had not heard the fiery speeches of a supposedly charismatic leader. It sounds too mystical, though, as if people can be turned from "moderate" to "extremist" through some magical power of the charismatic leader.

In the U.S. experience, we learn about the examples of extremist regimes in other countries and try to put ourselves on guard against it. But when all these politicians and others are labeling each other as "extreme," it tends to confuse things. If we label something or someone as "extreme" when it really isn't, then it may hinder our ability to recognize what truly is extreme or malignant.

While each individual might have their own reasons for becoming extremists, I wonder what exactly happens when there's a power shift to the point where extremists reach a critical mass which is enough to take over an entire society. While there's a lot of talk about extremists on one side or the other, just how worried should anyone be?
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
You become an extremist when you lose hope in the alternative. For example if you have little education and little access to education, then you might lose the ability to hope that education will improve life for people. Then you might become an extremist, viewing education as a waste of money.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
You become an extremist when you lose hope in the alternative. For example if you have little education and little access to education, then you might lose the ability to hope that education will improve life for people. Then you might become an extremist, viewing education as a waste of money.

Yes, I can see this. However, a society that offers very little access to education seems that it would be rife for extremism anyway. If education is the key to battling extremism, then perhaps free tuition at all colleges and universities would be a possible solution.
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Yes, I can see this. However, a society that offers very little access to education seems that it would be rife for extremism anyway. If education is the key to battling extremism, then perhaps free tuition at all colleges and universities would be a possible solution.
I only mean it as a single example. In general if you lose your patience and cannot see a peaceful, cooperative way to accomplish a necessary task, then you look for groups to join. You pick sides. If you're starving you steal.
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Talking to people that oppose their views causes people to go extreme, or form extreme of others. Some of it is because of Poe's Law, but largely it is the Backfire Effect in action. Talk politics that oppose the left and YOU MUST be a conservative. (In reality, I am sort of an anti-authoritarian anarchist.. :D I don't believe the government does anything right, but sometimes one of the candidates is sabotaging us.)

Anyway, many people here speak to me much less because I'm not on their side or something. I just don't give a damn... I was never on their side, nor on anyone else's, just MINE. :D
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Misinformation.

That was an interesting video. The thing that struck me about halfway through is that the narrator's dad said that he had previously never paid much attention to politics or the news, until he started listening to talk radio.

But what I could never understand is why the big corporate networks would purposely try to encourage it, especially since the corporatists and neo-cons in the GOP complain the most about the wing-nuts and paleo-cons like the person shown in the video. A nationalist agenda seems like it would be incompatible with the globalist, interventionist agenda that most of the GOP leadership supports.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
As I was reading the thread regarding Trump's allegation of Obama wiretapping, some thoughts came up in relation to how both sides in the campaign accused the other of being "extreme." I never actually believed that Trump or Hillary were as "extreme" as some of their opponents paint them...
You see nothing extreme about being a pathological liar committed to spreading Alt-Right conspiracy theories? Seriously?
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
You see nothing extreme about being a pathological liar committed to spreading Alt-Right conspiracy theories? Seriously?

Well, I think that's part of the reason I wanted to get other thoughts on it. Where is the line between moderate and extreme?

To answer your question, at least the first part, I wouldn't consider being a pathological liar, in and of itself, to be a sign of extremist political views. People can be pathological liars without even having any political views at all.

As for spreading alt-right conspiracy theories, you may have a point, if he's spouting off extreme views. But I've heard and read some rather extreme viewpoints in my lifetime - some rather inflammatory, incendiary diatribes. Trump's stuff may be bad, but it doesn't strike me as approaching the same level of intensity or cult of personality that might be associated with extremist regimes. I mean, I could be wrong. I'm just trying to get a feel for what's actually going on out there and wondering whether there's really something to worry about in regards to extremism from Trump, or from the alt-right or alt-left.

There's all these people warning about "extremism" out there, but I'm just trying to determine if they're just making hay or if there's something substantial to be concerned about here.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
As I was reading the thread regarding Trump's allegation of Obama wiretapping, some thoughts came up in relation to how both sides in the campaign accused the other of being "extreme." I never actually believed that Trump or Hillary were as "extreme" as some of their opponents paint them, but as I was thinking about the general topic, I wanted to see what others thought about the basic concepts of "moderation" vs. "extremism."

Where is the line between "moderate" and "extremist"?

What makes someone, who might have been raised "moderate" in a politically moderate environment, turn into an "extremist"? An example might be someone like Albert Speer, who was ostensibly moderate while growing up and reaching adulthood, yet still ended up joining the Nazi Party and serving an extremist regime. However, after the war, he expressed regret over his crimes and (like many in his position) tried to claim that he was suckered in - much in the same manner that wayward youth join religious cults or get caught up in street gangs.

But for whatever reason, I find myself skeptical of such explanations. For one thing, it makes moderates seem too naive and easily led. It makes it appear that these otherwise well-meaning, well-adjusted, and innocent people would not have turned into extremists if they had not heard the fiery speeches of a supposedly charismatic leader. It sounds too mystical, though, as if people can be turned from "moderate" to "extremist" through some magical power of the charismatic leader.

In the U.S. experience, we learn about the examples of extremist regimes in other countries and try to put ourselves on guard against it. But when all these politicians and others are labeling each other as "extreme," it tends to confuse things. If we label something or someone as "extreme" when it really isn't, then it may hinder our ability to recognize what truly is extreme or malignant.

While each individual might have their own reasons for becoming extremists, I wonder what exactly happens when there's a power shift to the point where extremists reach a critical mass which is enough to take over an entire society. While there's a lot of talk about extremists on one side or the other, just how worried should anyone be?
I think it is general over compensating in trying to fix the issues,which is why we swing back and forth every four to eight years. How else do we go from having the first black president to another racist president.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
You see nothing extreme about being a pathological liar committed to spreading Alt-Right conspiracy theories? Seriously?
To answer your question, at least the first part, I wouldn't consider being a pathological liar, in and of itself, to be a sign of extremist political views. People can be pathological liars without even having any political views at all.

As for spreading alt-right conspiracy theories, you may have a point, if he's spouting off extreme views.
"May"? Good grief!

I am reminded of the following ...

“The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference. The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference. And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.”
Elie Wiesel

Spineless equivocation regarding today's President and GOP is criminal indifference which increasingly threatens the most vulnerable.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Sow insecurity. Tell people they're under attack and point to some group responsible.

It works. It's got a bloody track record. You know what they say about those who forget history.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
"May"? Good grief!

I am reminded of the following ...

“The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference. The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference. And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.”
Elie Wiesel

Spineless equivocation regarding today's President and GOP is criminal indifference which increasingly threatens the most vulnerable.

It seems to me that you're using the tactics of an extremist yourself, by insinuating "those who are not with us are against us." This isn't what I was asking for. If you didn't have anything relevant to add to the topic nor any willingness to answer the questions I posited, then why bother commenting at all? It seems that there are a few people around here desperate to convince everyone else that Trump = Hitler, but I'm sorry, I'm just not seeing it.

Your use of emotional-laden language as an attempt to manipulate me is not going to work; if you want to play the Emperor Has No Clothes gambit, then at least give me something I can work with and address. Don't call me "spineless" just because I don't see the world in the same extreme way as you do.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
It seems to me that you're using the tactics of an extremist yourself, by insinuating "those who are not with us are against us."
And it seems to me that:
  1. A position is not a tactic (extremist or otherwise).
  2. Sharing a position with some unspecified extremist neither makes me an extremist nor validates extremism.
  3. Some issues are fundamental. So, for example, you are either opposed to white nationalism or you enable it.
Otherwise, your comment is literally worthless.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
A position is not a tactic (extremist or otherwise).

"Position" on what? On the topic of this thread? On Trump? On me? What, exactly, is this "position" you claim to be taking?


Sharing a position with some unspecified extremist neither makes me an extremist nor validates extremism.

But you haven't shared any position with me. I opened this thread in the hope that I would get relevant commentary on the subject matter I introduced.

One person commented earlier that emotional manipulation is a tactic of extremism, and with your emotionally-laden comments (which were neither relevant nor informative), you appeared to be using the tactic of emotional manipulation.

If your position is that Trump is the equivalent of Hitler, then that, in and of itself, appears to be an extreme position. And now you're getting mad at me because I'm not seeing it too. You're practically accusing me of being an extremist and a white nationalist merely because I don't see the same things about Trump as you see.

Some issues are fundamental. So, for example, you are either opposed to white nationalism or you enable it.
Otherwise, your comment is literally worthless.

Honestly, I really don't understand your hostility here. As I said, if you didn't have anything relevant to the topic, then why bother commenting at all? Maybe if you could explain yourself or clarify your position a little better, I might be able to answer your points. Otherwise, if you truly believe my comment to be worthless, then you might as well just put me on ignore.
 
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