What makes Jesus Christ different

[internationalist]

The apostles lived with Jesus, the man who claimed he'd rise from the dead. All the apostles had to do was wait three days to confirm it; and if Jesus hadn't risen from the dead, that would have made him a fraud. But the apostles gave up their lives for him ... do you think they'd do that for a fraud?

As you can see, other religious people may die for a leader they've never known or seen - that's fanaticism. But the apostles had the chance to verify whether Jesus was fake or not ... and they must've confirmed he was not. Or why would they die for him?

 

[TheKnight]

The apostles lived with Jesus, the man who claimed he'd rise from the dead. All the apostles had to do was wait three days to confirm it; and if Jesus hadn't risen from the dead, that would have made him a fraud. But the apostles gave up their lives for him ... do you think they'd do that for a fraud?

As you can see, other religious people may die for a leader they've never known or seen - that's fanaticism. But the apostles had the chance to verify whether Jesus was fake or not ... and they must've confirmed he was not. Or why would they die for him?

Perhaps their giving of their lives had nothing to do with him, but with their commitment to his teachings about what they saw as being Judaism? Perhaps they weren't at all concerned with his divinity, having spoken so very little about it, and instead were focused on spreading his message?

 

[Me Myself]

The apostles lived with Jesus, the man who claimed he'd rise from the dead. All the apostles had to do was wait three days to confirm it; and if Jesus hadn't risen from the dead, that would have made him a fraud. But the apostles gave up their lives for him ... do you think they'd do that for a fraud?

As you can see, other religious people may die for a leader they've never known or seen - that's fanaticism. But the apostles had the chance to verify whether Jesus was fake or not ... and they must've confirmed he was not. Or why would they die for him?

1- Maybe the apostols didn´t exist either

2- Never underestimate human´s ability for psichological denial.

Just giving you options

 

[outhouse]

The apostles lived with Jesus, the man who claimed he'd rise from the dead. All the apostles had to do was wait three days to confirm it; and if Jesus hadn't risen from the dead, that would have made him a fraud. But the apostles gave up their lives for him ... do you think they'd do that for a fraud?

As you can see, other religious people may die for a leader they've never known or seen - that's fanaticism. But the apostles had the chance to verify whether Jesus was fake or not ... and they must've confirmed he was not. Or why would they die for him?

The apostles didnt die for him so to speak, they died for their newly formed movement that was the foundation of a new religion. They liked the "message" that yeshua taught and they died passing it on.


Their faith had nothing to do with the supposed resurrection. Not enough is known historically about the event to even try and base a valid statement.

The apostles were the foundation of a movement that snowballed and grew rapidly with time. In teh beginning it was so unknown that not one scribe jotted a word down about yeshua or his followers. Only after death did the story gain steam, part of the reason for that is we are talking about a culture that needed a religous reform. people liked the ideas surrounding the god of judaism and yeshua opened the religion up for all pagans and converts that judaism did not allow. It was a movement at the perfect time as a civilization needed a better religion in the levant then judaism or paganism

 

[Bob Dixon]

Perhaps their giving of their lives had nothing to do with him, but with their commitment to his teachings about what they saw as being Judaism? Perhaps they weren't at all concerned with his divinity, having spoken so very little about it, and instead were focused on spreading his message?

Indeed.

One must remember that the apostles and Jesus were devout Jews. Christianity was just another aspect of Judaism, like how you have Hasidic, Orthodox, Reconstructionist, Reform, Conservative, etc.
It's only with the passing of time that other things (such as "Jesus = God", "Jesus died to combat original sin", etc) came about.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The apostles lived with Jesus, the man who claimed he'd rise from the dead. All the apostles had to do was wait three days to confirm it; and if Jesus hadn't risen from the dead, that would have made him a fraud. But the apostles gave up their lives for him ... do you think they'd do that for a fraud?

As you can see, other religious people may die for a leader they've never known or seen - that's fanaticism. But the apostles had the chance to verify whether Jesus was fake or not ... and they must've confirmed he was not. Or why would they die for him?

Ah... the "nobody dies for a lie" argument.

I think it assumes two big things that need some support:

- we actually know what happened, and what the apostles did and didn't do.
- we can assume that when someone comes to a decision that affects their lives, they do it for good reason.

Even if the apostles really did do the things the Bible says they did, I don't have any problem with allowing for the possibility that they were simply honestly mistaken. I mean, are you going to argue that the members of Jonestown or Heaven's Gate who killed themself also knew that their beliefs are true? If not, why would you assume that the apostles were magically protected from poor judgement the way unavailable to the rest of us?

Also, if we believe the Bible, apparently Jesus wasn't the only person being resurrected in the days following his death - Matthew 27:

51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and[e] went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

With all sorts of dead people wandering around Jerusalem, why would we assume that one particular walking dead person is special in a way that all the others aren't?

 

[Villager]

It's only with the passing of time that other things (such as "Jesus = God", "Jesus died to combat original sin", etc) came about.

Were you there?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Whether it was a lie or not, the message of Jesus clearly moved a core group of people who were dedicated to it to the point of death. Together, they did produce something that has withstood the test of time and thrived all over the earth.

I think that they set things in motion that are greater than they could have ever dreamed.

 

[arcanum]

Whether it was a lie or not, the message of Jesus clearly moved a core group of people who were dedicated to it to the point of death. Together, they did produce something that has withstood the test of time and thrived all over the earth.

I think that they set things in motireon that are greater than they could have ever dreamed.

This is true, there was a message that seemed to resonate with the ancient world and still does today. Jesus took the essence of Judaism and stripped it of a bunch of petty rules that I personal find hard to believe god could care less about, and present this essence to the rest of the world.

 

[not nom]

With all sorts of dead people wandering around Jerusalem, why would we assume that one particular walking dead person is special in a way that all the others aren't?

because jesus said that would happen? if they assumed his death and resurrection caused it, that means the more people rose from their graves, the bigger the effect.. towards believing on jesus, not diminishing his importance.

 

[not nom]

Were you there?

were you there to say they did think jesus was god, or died for original sin? no? see how that works?

I don't know what the first (generations of) christians believed. but I'm pretty sure the only way to think jesus is god is to mingle a lot with people who believe that, instead of actually reading the gospels. you know, where jesus prays to god, even feels forsaken by god at one point, and says he does god's will, not his own, indicating he is a separate person. when he says none are good but god, some take as him meaning to sheepishly suggest he is god, but that's just one possible interpretation and the other bits kinda make it an impossible one.

no, paulus can write epistles until he is blue in the face, the gospels are rather obvious in that regard: either jesus isn't god, or god/jesus is SO dishonest and has SUCH a sick sense of humour, that we're all very much screwed anyway, regardless of what we do or believe. (that may be a possibility, but it's a possibility I like to rule out, it helps me sleep at night )

so why would I assume those people back then, who took such things very seriously, would be like churchianity is today? they were jews, and they weren't stupid, so why would they think jesus is god? maybe they have, but I don't consider that likely myself.

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

Jesus made Jesus different just as George made George different and Mandy made Mandy different. Everyone one is different; it would be a pretty boring place if we were all the same.

 

[strikeviperMKII]

With all sorts of dead people wandering around Jerusalem, why would we assume that one particular walking dead person is special in a way that all the others aren't?

I don't think it's the person who died, just how they faced death. How they dealt with it.
Of course, we aren't strictly talking about physical death here...right?

 

[painted wolf]

The apostles lived with Jesus, the man who claimed he'd rise from the dead. All the apostles had to do was wait three days to confirm it; and if Jesus hadn't risen from the dead, that would have made him a fraud. But the apostles gave up their lives for him ... do you think they'd do that for a fraud?

As you can see, other religious people may die for a leader they've never known or seen - that's fanaticism. But the apostles had the chance to verify whether Jesus was fake or not ... and they must've confirmed he was not. Or why would they die for him?

People have died defending every faith on the planet... perhaps the apostles were just as fanatical as any other martyr.

As for Jesus coming back from the dead, that's not that unique... Grandfather Coyote does it all the time.

wa:do

 

[ForeverFaithful]

Ah... the "nobody dies for a lie" argument.

Also, if we believe the Bible, apparently Jesus wasn't the only person being resurrected in the days following his death - Matthew 27:



With all sorts of dead people wandering around Jerusalem, why would we assume that one particular walking dead person is special in a way that all the others aren't?

my favorite Gospel, now I'm not going to start a reformation, but when it comes to John Mark Luke and even Acts, where there is no record of this event, and Matthew being one of the latest Gospels by a Jewish Christian community, I'd say
A)Matthew had something else to do then record history
B) This isn't a physical resurrection but an entirely spiritual one,

 

[Shermana]

This is true, there was a message that seemed to resonate with the ancient world and still does today. Jesus took the essence of Judaism and stripped it of a bunch of petty rules that I personal find hard to believe god could care less about, and present this essence to the rest of the world.

The petty rules he stripped "Judaism" of were the artificial Pharaisical rulings like ritual handwashing, while chastising them for failing to fulfill the parts of the Law they didn't like such as caring for orphans and widows, the Sadducees didn't even believe in an afterlife, which can be argued to be intrinsic.

 

[Sunstone]

The apostles lived with Jesus, the man who claimed he'd rise from the dead. All the apostles had to do was wait three days to confirm it; and if Jesus hadn't risen from the dead, that would have made him a fraud. But the apostles gave up their lives for him ... do you think they'd do that for a fraud?

As you can see, other religious people may die for a leader they've never known or seen - that's fanaticism. But the apostles had the chance to verify whether Jesus was fake or not ... and they must've confirmed he was not. Or why would they die for him?

So you're saying Jim Jones was a Christ because people died for him? Or Joseph Stalin was a Christ because people died for him? It seems to me dying for frauds is one of the things our species of great ape does best.

 

[idav]

This is true, there was a message that seemed to resonate with the ancient world and still does today. Jesus took the essence of Judaism and stripped it of a bunch of petty rules that I personal find hard to believe god could care less about, and present this essence to the rest of the world.

Paul tried to bring back some of those rules. Jesus kept it pretty simple when possible.

 

[idav]

So you're saying Jim Jones was a Christ because people died for him? Or Joseph Stalin was a Christ because people died for him? It seems to me dying for frauds is one of the things our species of great ape does best.

I thought when people die for you, you get to keep their souls!?

 

[IsmailaGodHasHeard]

Jesus is different because He is God and because He died a physical death on the cross for all of our sins so that we may be saved if we change our mind about all of our sins and accept Him as our Friend, God, Lord, and Savior. That is what I believe.