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What male entitlement looks like in action.

Alceste

Vagabond
OK, this is a bit of a venting thread, cuz I'm a little frustrated. But I'm also learning things. I know I haven't been here in a while - I've made some changes. I've gone back into film work, doing a job that very few women tackle. The same job I did 15 years ago until the union blacklisted me for "being a tease" (IOW, "for being the only woman in the province doing that particular job"). It's going better now, because it's 15 years down the road in a more liberal province and there are SIX women doing this job (out of several hundred workers), so I'm not the "first" anything to anybody. Still, on nearly every show I work someone makes a point to mention all the other females they've met doing that job, and every single thing they ever did or said. So I've realized that even though I'm not perceived as a total abomination of nature here, I'm still bound to be pretty ******* conspicuous due to having boobs and no penis.

Because of that, and other things that are too complicated and tedious to get into, I work ******* hard. Twice as hard as anybody else on my crew. Because somebody is bound to be watching me, all the time, taking notes. I'm never late, I almost never screw up (and when I do I acknowledge my mistakes), I never give anybody any attitude, I never complain, bla bla bla. The money is awesome, and I want the money. I don't really give a rat's *** about anything else, but I know that to get that money I've got to be exceptional.

Then there's guys. The guys doing that same job. Especially the young, white, totally green guys. These guys frickin stand around all day doing nothing. Absolutely nothing. Totally in la-la land. If something is a pain in the ***, they don't bother with it. They complain about having to get up early or not getting enough sleep. They talk about how they got into film because they want to direct. And, amazingly, they show up late, or without the proper gear or tools for the job, and don't even feel ashamed of themselves.

On the other hand, they're forever seeing me doing something and trying to shove me out of the way and do it themselves if they think the boss might be watching. They don't do that to the guys. They literally grab **** out of my hands and go running when a man asks for it, after standing around doing nothing for ages, totally ignoring the fact I've been working the whole time and not lifting a finger to help.

When I see somebody standing around doing nothing, I'll nicely offer him something to do, because I've always got a backlog of things to do. It's a win win situation, IMO. I do my best to help these guys look good, cuz everybody has a first day sometimes, right? When they listen to me, they end up looking pretty good.

But some of them simply will not listen to me, because I don't have a penis - so I couldn't possibly matter. Today, on my way to doing something, I saw one of these guys standing around doing nothing and told him the big pile of stuff at his feet needed to go to the truck. He didn't lift a finger.

Not 30 seconds later, a GUY asked him to do something - which happened to be the task I was ALREADY doing (his back was turned at the time - not his fault). What does this guy do? He stands beside me for about three or four minutes, just watching me do this task.

I very politely mention, in the exact same words, "if you're looking for something to do, all that stuff needs to go to the truck". Does he do it without complaining? No, he mutters "but so-and-so sent me over here to do this."

Yeah, AFTER I sent you to do something else, retard. Something you're still not doing, even though you can plainly see the subsequent assignment that came from a person with a penis was nothing more than an honest mistake.

I didn't say any of that, but it still ****** me off. All I said was "Well, I've got this, but thanks anyway."

He still didn't freaking do it, either. And he happens to come from the province where I was blacklisted for being a woman, which doesn't help my ****** off-ness at all.

OK, so what does male entitlement look like? That freaking idiot is probably going to get just as much work as I am, and possibly more, and he knows it. Almost all of the crews he works with will be all male, so he'll just do what he's told for the most part like a good little soldier, and his coworkers will feel more comfortable with him than me because he doesn't have boobs. He's obviously EXPECTING to get the work, even though he has no experience, no tools, no weather gear, no tickets, no work ethic, and very little common sense. He knows he has the one tool that really matters in this world - a penis. And he had the audacity to try to flex that useless muscle at me and try to take charge on his SECOND day of work.

On my first call-out, to get a sense of what I was in for, I asked one of the riggers I was working with "Do you have any women in this province doing this job?"

"Only a few," he said "but they are all exceptional". That's a sentiment that comes up regularly, sometimes in the form of "all the women work twice as hard as the men". It's usually said with a sense of awe or bewilderment, as if it's totally unfathomable to these guys why the women work so hard.

The fact is, we HAVE TO. We can't lollygag around gazing at the stars, powdering our noses for half an hour between tasks like the guys do, show up late with a bull crap excuse, take all the easy jobs and avoid the heavy lifting, spend half the day chatting with our buddies, etc. because if we do THAT, we're affirming the BS gendered expectations of whoever is watching, and there is ALWAYS somebody watching, because we're conspicuous.

If you've got this far, thanks for reading my epic venting session. I'd love to hear feedback, similar stories or commiseration, but please bear with me, because I'm working 60-70 hours a week - and rolling in my big piles of money in between, largely in the form of gin and tonic. :D
 
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Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Hey Alceste! Good to see you again! :)

Your story reminds me of some of the things my mother had to put up with as just about the only female CEO in her community during the 1960s and early 1970s.

One of the things you didn't mention as having happened yet on your job -- but which, if my mother's experience is any guide to it. is something that is going to happen someday -- are men stealing your ideas and getting all the credit for them. So, watch out for that, if you aren't already doing so, and when you have an idea, don't tell anyone else before you speak about it directly to your boss.

By the way, there's a trade off there. Keeping the idea to yourself until you speak with you boss about it makes it harder to get the idea accepted in some cases. That is, you don't have anyone backing you up, lobbying the boss alongside you. So know there's a trade off to keeping ideas to yourself, rather than building a lobby for them.
 
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Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Oh, and keep your sense of humor with you at all times. Mom got a lot done because she could make light of sexism in a gentle, non-threatening way. She could poke fun at in ways that were funny even to conservatives in her community. So be careful about who you reveal that scathing sarcasm to. And develop another tool for your tool chest -- the Will Rogers joke, so to speak. The one that makes your point while simultaneously getting people on your side.

Just my two cents. I think what you're doing is outstanding and admirable to the point that you should have groupies.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
In line with all I said below, Alceste, I got a story for you. At any rate, this happened to my mom. One day, a bank executive, name of Floyd, got it into his head to write to the local paper with a proposal for converting an old hotel in town into apartments for the poor. The paper published Floyd's idea on the front page, causing quite a stir in our small, generally news-less town.

Now, part of Floyd's proposal was that mom's corporation run the apartments. The detail Floyd left out of his proposal was that he hadn't consulted mom on any of this. In other words, he was pretty much telling her what her job would soon involve without ever having consulted her about it. Of course, as a woman, she wasn't supposed to mind being told what to do without being asked her own opinion about it.

Naturally, mom was angry. But she cooled off before she responded. Then, with a cool head, she made the rounds of all the important decision makers in town, and got each one of them laughing about it with her. Floyd ended up the butt of her jokes. And needless to say, mom ended up getting exactly what she wanted -- which was to not be saddled with the apartments.

But she did it all in such a funny, but gentle way, that even Floyd couldn't be offended. It was a total win for her, Alceste. Her position in the community took a leap upwards for she was now perceived as being the equal of a bank executive. And a few years later, following other events, folks began referring to her, along with five other people (all men), as the town's "Five Fathers and One Mother".
 
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Alceste

Vagabond
In line with all I said below, Alceste, I got a story for you. At any rate, this happened to my mom. One day, a bank executive, name of Floyd, got it into his head to write to the local paper with a proposal for converting an old hotel in town into apartments for the poor. The paper published Floyd's idea on the front page, causing quite a stir in our small, generally news-less town.

Now, part of Floyd's proposal was that mom's corporation run the apartments. The detail Floyd left out of his proposal was that he hadn't consulted mom on any of this. In other words, he was pretty much telling her what her job would soon involve without ever having consulted her about it. Of course, as a woman, she wasn't supposed to mind being told what to do without being asked her own opinion about it.

Naturally, mom was angry. But she cooled off before she responded. Then, with a cool head, she made the rounds of all the important decision makers in town, and got each one of them laughing about it with her. Floyd ended up the butt of her jokes. And needless to say, mom ended up getting exactly what she wanted -- which was to not be saddled with the apartments.

But she did it all in such a funny, but gentle way, that even Floyd couldn't be offended. It was a total win for her, Alceste. Her position in the community took a leap upwards for she was now perceived as being the equal of a bank executive. And a few years later, following other events, folks began referring to her, along with five other people (all men), as the town's "Five Fathers and One Mother".

That's a great story, Sunstone. Indeed, gently laughing and joking off the sexism was my original strategy fifteen years ago. (See "Tease" above - I think those guys mistook joking for flirting.)

I don't whip out my sarcasm at work. That would be like turning up in my pyjamas! :D I'm basically polite, reasonably friendly and pragmatic. I can defer being ****** off all day long and get around to it later.

There's not really time on a film crew for a subtle strategy or a long game. It's just "a whole load of crap we have to do today", every day. About half the guys (minorities especially) appreciate having their attention directed to any task, because they know it makes them look good to be seen working on something. The other half (all young, white men) will only do what they feel like doing. No amount of gentle cajoling will get them moving. So I'm just gonna stick with friendly and polite. I'll offer a task once or twice to those guys, then just just do it myself.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
Hey Alceste! Good to see you again! :)

Your story reminds me of some of the things my mother had to put up with as just about the only female CEO in her community during the 1960s and early 1970s.

One of the things you didn't mention as having happened yet on your job -- but which, if my mother's experience is any guide to it. is something that is going to happen someday -- are men stealing your ideas and getting all the credit for them. So, watch out for that, if you aren't already doing so, and when you have an idea, don't tell anyone else before you speak about it directly to your boss.

By the way, there's a trade off there. Keeping the idea to yourself until you speak with you boss about it makes it harder to get the idea accepted in some cases. That is, you don't have anyone backing you up, lobbying the boss alongside you. So know there's a trade off to keeping ideas to yourself, rather than building a lobby for them.

Yeah, there's a micro-form of that already happening - guys are literally trying to snatch things right out of my hands all the time. I tend to anticipate well what will be asked for next, and sometimes I'm already doing it when the call comes. That's when everybody gets really, really grabby.
 

Wherenextcolumbus

Well-Known Member
Sorry you're going through that Alceste, I don't really have much advice for you since my office has more females, and the guys like it that way and would never get rid of a woman for being a "tease" ;)
I hope it gets easier for you x
 

Tarheeler

Argumentative Curmudgeon
Premium Member
In my 15 years in the HVAC trade, I've had the opportunity to work with two women.

The first was hired as a green helper after the company was forced to include more minority employees. She learned quick and was a fine installer; I was always impressed with her work when she was assigned to one of my jobs. When I was promoted to supervisor, I moved her into the slot I left. She was responsible for making sure the other installers' work was ready for inspection and then starting up the equipment. It was a new responsibility, and I expected her to make a few mistakes along the way. But my bosses disagreed and demoted her the first time something went wrong. It took them about six months to run her out of the company, and the next outfit she worked for did the same.

The second was a very skilled and experienced sheet metal foreman. She had a decade of experience in the trade and could run circles around just about everyone else. She should have been running duct crews on our large projects, but was instead slotted as a helper on small commercial jobs making a fraction of what a man with her experience and skills would have been making.

These things never should have happened in the first place, and I'm sorry you are still having to deal with it today.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
In my 15 years in the HVAC trade, I've had the opportunity to work with two women.

The first was hired as a green helper after the company was forced to include more minority employees. She learned quick and was a fine installer; I was always impressed with her work when she was assigned to one of my jobs. When I was promoted to supervisor, I moved her into the slot I left. She was responsible for making sure the other installers' work was ready for inspection and then starting up the equipment. It was a new responsibility, and I expected her to make a few mistakes along the way. But my bosses disagreed and demoted her the first time something went wrong. It took them about six months to run her out of the company, and the next outfit she worked for did the same.

The second was a very skilled and experienced sheet metal foreman. She had a decade of experience in the trade and could run circles around just about everyone else. She should have been running duct crews on our large projects, but was instead slotted as a helper on small commercial jobs making a fraction of what a man with her experience and skills would have been making.

These things never should have happened in the first place, and I'm sorry you are still having to deal with it today.

Oh yeah, there's that too. Because I'm day calling, I have a lot of "first days" with different crews. Often, I start on the same day as some guys with much less experience. If someone needs to get cut because they don't need as many people the next day, it's always me. One crew ended up cutting me and keeping a guy with no experience at all, who showed up to work in a full body gorilla suit on day two. I'm not even joking. My current boss is a rare creature - he has been fighting to keep me and adding to my responsibilities since my first day there. Thank heavens there are guys like him and like you out there.
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
Well crap. I was hoping to see that things had become easier for you on the job to actually do your job. But you still have to put up with unnecessary BS.

This is why the wimminz get feisty and speak up as a whole.

I remember seeing this in action too on the job doing marketing and sales management. 2 hour meetings on the numbers were a joke for the most part....flexing egos and **** jokes took up most of the discussion while I was the only female in the boardroom. And the actual discussion of the numbers and action plans probably took up a total of 30 minutes of the entire meeting.

When one company asked for my opinion on their upgrade programs, wondering why it wasn't meeting projections consistently, I gave them my opinion on why they weren't sustainable and the customers feedback on the quality and value that was low. The CEO of that company stood up and said to me, "You can't say that! How could you say that?!?"

Yeesh, then what was I doing there trying to help you succeed? They had a major problem in their branding and in operations that was affecting their sales. People didn't want to buy something they didn't see the value in. But the mindset was that their ideas were gospel, and if things didn't work, it was because I was angry, stupid, emotional, and jealous that I wasn't in their position. Apparently.

My latest gripe is that the current building owner we're renting from won't respond to my needs of repair unless my husband contacts him.

Yeah, my husband. Who isn't at the business 90% of the time. He's working his tail off at his bread-and-butter job but has to be the point of contact to get things done with repair work. It ****** him off and it ****** me off. I'm seeing what I can do about this, and I'm open to suggestions.

But for now, Alceste....:glomp:....good to see you back for a visit. Rant or not, it's good to see you.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
First of all: welcome back. I am sincerely sorry that you are forced to deal with this type of abuse.
Speaking of which - I encourage anyone who is enraged by such things to acquaint themselves with the AJWS #WeBelieve campaign.​
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
First of all: welcome back. I am sincerely sorry that you are forced to deal with this type of abuse.
Speaking of which - I encourage anyone who is enraged by such things to acquaint themselves with the AJWS #WeBelieve campaign.​

Thanks for sharing the link, Jay! I wasn't aware of the organization, but it looks amazing after checking it out. :yes:
 

Alceste

Vagabond
Well crap. I was hoping to see that things had become easier for you on the job to actually do your job. But you still have to put up with unnecessary BS.

This is why the wimminz get feisty and speak up as a whole.

I remember seeing this in action too on the job doing marketing and sales management. 2 hour meetings on the numbers were a joke for the most part....flexing egos and **** jokes took up most of the discussion while I was the only female in the boardroom. And the actual discussion of the numbers and action plans probably took up a total of 30 minutes of the entire meeting.

When one company asked for my opinion on their upgrade programs, wondering why it wasn't meeting projections consistently, I gave them my opinion on why they weren't sustainable and the customers feedback on the quality and value that was low. The CEO of that company stood up and said to me, "You can't say that! How could you say that?!?"

Yeesh, then what was I doing there trying to help you succeed? They had a major problem in their branding and in operations that was affecting their sales. People didn't want to buy something they didn't see the value in. But the mindset was that their ideas were gospel, and if things didn't work, it was because I was angry, stupid, emotional, and jealous that I wasn't in their position. Apparently.

My latest gripe is that the current building owner we're renting from won't respond to my needs of repair unless my husband contacts him.

Yeah, my husband. Who isn't at the business 90% of the time. He's working his tail off at his bread-and-butter job but has to be the point of contact to get things done with repair work. It ****** him off and it ****** me off. I'm seeing what I can do about this, and I'm open to suggestions.

But for now, Alceste....:glomp:....good to see you back for a visit. Rant or not, it's good to see you.

Oh, man, yeah, the guys who will only deal with other guys! My grandma had that problem when my husband and I lived with her. She'd hire someone to do some work on her house and he'd patronize her and leave the business talk for my husband, who usually knew nothing about it.

My advice is to politely refuse to cooperate. Make a verbal request, follow up in a few days, then make a written request, being specific about what your next step is going to be. For example, I had a standard lease once that stipulated if the landlord was unreachable or uncooperative I could pay for repairs myself and deduct the expenses from my rent. So I did. That sure got him used to the idea that ignoring me was a really bad idea.
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
Oh, man, yeah, the guys who will only deal with other guys! My grandma had that problem when my husband and I lived with her. She'd hire someone to do some work on her house and he'd patronize her and leave the business talk for my husband, who usually knew nothing about it.

My advice is to politely refuse to cooperate. Make a verbal request, follow up in a few days, then make a written request, being specific about what your next step is going to be. For example, I had a standard lease once that stipulated if the landlord was unreachable or uncooperative I could pay for repairs myself and deduct the expenses from my rent. So I did. That sure got him used to the idea that ignoring me was a really bad idea.

Good idea. I think I'll do that. Thanks. :hug:
 

Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I'm sorry to hear about all of that Alceste. I'm glad to see you visit here again and that you shared that.
 
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