What Really Happened? A Coup Attempt?

[Windwalker]

I seriously had begun to grow a bit more 'amused' by the clownish antics and faces of the Trumpians who stormed the Capitol building on Wednesday. This could be because, A) I really wanted to view this as not a serious threat? B) because we're only get bits and pieces of information, and not enough to give perspective. I think it's a combination of both.

I just watched this newscast which outlines details that I was unaware of, and perhaps a lot of us aren't of. I very much recommend watching this whole video, but if pressed for time, beginning at 2:30 and beyond where they begin showing footage from within crowds, scenes and details that shed new light I have not seen before. It will warn of some violent scenes, if you're sensitive. But after watching this, there seems something very dark going on in there.

I think they intended to actually execute state senators, as well as Mike Pence. The clowns you see in the news, are not the real dark actors here. If that had succeeded, imagine what today would be looking like, as opposed to what the stunned world is looking at today? It could have been a much, much darker day.

 

[Yerda]

Looks that way.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I seriously had begun to grow a bit more 'amused' by the clownish antics and faces of the Trumpians who stormed the Capitol building on Wednesday. This could be because, A) I really wanted to view this as not a serious threat? B) because we're only get bits and pieces of information, and not enough to give perspective. I think it's a combination of both.

I just watched this newscast which outlines details that I was unaware of, and perhaps a lot of us aren't of. I very much recommend watching this whole video, but if pressed for time, beginning at 2:30 and beyond where they begin showing footage from within crowds, scenes and details that shed new light I have not seen before. It will warn of some violent scenes, if you're sensitive. But after watching this, there seems something very dark going on in there.

I think they intended to actually execute state senators, as well as Mike Pence. The clowns you see in the news, are not the real dark actors here. If that had succeeded, imagine what today would be looking like, as opposed to what the stunned world is looking at today? It could have been a much, much darker day.

Completely agree.

America keeps underestimating Donald Trump as a clown. They keep thinking he will not go one step further, because that’s what a normal person would do.

He is comical - until he isn’t. His supporters are the same.

Unfortunately I believe this mob attack will be followed by more sophisticated acts of violent domestic terrorism. Trump’s movement was beaten back but far from defeated - they are as energized and crazy as ever. And even more desperate.

There are quite literally millions of Americans who have gone down the Trump / QAnon / conspiracy theory rabbit hole. They are realtors. Small business owners. Carpenters. Former military. They are suburbanites and rural husbands and wives and grandparents who truly, sincerely believe evil forces are stealing the election and its time to fight back. They are my family and relatives in Midwestern US states.

Within this sea of angry, obese Karens is a small percentage who will be inspired by their numbers, and the righteousness of their cause, and desperation in the face of certain defeat, to take the next step: violent acts.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I seriously had begun to grow a bit more 'amused' by the clownish antics and faces of the Trumpians who stormed the Capitol building on Wednesday. This could be because, A) I really wanted to view this as not a serious threat? B) because we're only get bits and pieces of information, and not enough to give perspective. I think it's a combination of both.

I just watched this newscast which outlines details that I was unaware of, and perhaps a lot of us aren't of. I very much recommend watching this whole video, but if pressed for time, beginning at 2:30 and beyond where they begin showing footage from within crowds, scenes and details that shed new light I have not scene before. It will warn of some violent scenes, if you're sensitive. But after watching this, there seems something very dark going on in there.

I think they intended to actually execute state senators, and possibly Pence. The clowns you see in the news, are not the real dark actors here. If that had succeeded, image what today would be looking like, as opposed to what the stunned world is looking at today? It could have been a much, much darker day.

Some of this is actually unclear to me. As with most things we are working with sound bites, and we don't get the whole picture. What if Democrats stormed the capital? How would their attempt be covered by media? I watched some of Steven Colbert's comments and understood what he was saying. It is indeed outrageous for a president to incite a riot and to undermine our voting system.

I also watched a commentary by awakenwithjp where he points out things suspiciously left out by supposedly mainstream media about the storming. According to him and photos he produced in his presentation certain famous figures from antifa demonstrations also appeared in the storming of the capital...such as that guy with the bull horn hat and painted face. Apparently some of the stormers are present both in this and in antifa demonstrations, which casts doubt upon whether media has thoughtfully covered this. They also have a particular spin on how events unfolded such as their absolute declaration as to why capital police opened up barriers for demonstrators. The event is sensationalized rather than analyzed. Also, the continual assumption that the people storming are racist , and so they must be storming the capital because they are racist. As he points out this doesn't make a lot of sense yet is what is put forward as fact.

 

[SomeRandom]

Some of this is actually unclear to me. As with most things we are working with sound bites, and we don't get the whole picture. What if Democrats stormed the capital? How would their attempt be covered by media? I watched some of Steven Colbert's comments and understood what he was saying. It is indeed outrageous for a president to incite a riot and to undermine our voting system.

I also watched a commentary by awakenwithjp where he points out things suspiciously left out by supposedly mainstream media about the storming. According to him and photos he produced in his presentation certain famous figures from antifa demonstrations also appeared in the storming of the capital...such as that guy with the bull horn hat and painted face. Apparently some of the stormers are present both in this and in antifa demonstrations, which casts doubt upon whether media has thoughtfully covered this. They also have a particular spin on how events unfolded such as their absolute declaration as to why capital police opened up barriers for demonstrators. The event is sensationalized rather than analyzed. Also, the continual assumption that the people storming are racist , and so they must be storming the capital because they are racist. As he points out this doesn't make a lot of sense yet is what is put forward as fact.

I’m not so sure
Bull horn guy aka Qanon Shaman protested against antifa. His words, not mine.
I don’t know if the stormers were all racist, but the allegation that some of them being antifa is apparently disputed by those who were in attendance. Such as this gentleman I found through “chud watch.” I think he’s some sort of “Trump rapper.” Or that’s his claim to fame, I dunno

Damn. Your politics are far more dramatic than mine.
I fear I don’t have nearly enough popcorn

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Some of this is actually unclear to me. As with most things we are working with sound bites, and we don't get the whole picture. What if Democrats stormed the capital? How would their attempt be covered by media? I watched some of Steven Colbert's comments and understood what he was saying. It is indeed outrageous for a president to incite a riot and to undermine our voting system.

I also watched a commentary by awakenwithjp where he points out things suspiciously left out by supposedly mainstream media about the storming. According to him and photos he produced in his presentation certain famous figures from antifa demonstrations also appeared in the storming of the capital...such as that guy with the bull horn hat and painted face. Apparently some of the stormers are present both in this and in antifa demonstrations, which casts doubt upon whether media has thoughtfully covered this. They also have a particular spin on how events unfolded such as their absolute declaration as to why capital police opened up barriers for demonstrators. The event is sensationalized rather than analyzed. Also, the continual assumption that the people storming are racist , and so they must be storming the capital because they are racist. As he points out this doesn't make a lot of sense yet is what is put forward as fact.

Good points. I agree, mischaracterizing the riot is unhelpful. What truly happened, nuances and all, was bad enough.

The real world is complicated. Clearly the riot wasn’t about racism (contrary to Pelosi characterizing it that way) ... BUT ... it also seems that the small minority of Americans who are white nationalists are also ardent Trump supporters. And their presence seems to be tolerated by the larger Trump movement. You were far safer waving a Confederate flag in that crowd than a Biden flag.

The nature of a mob is that there is not one individual person controlling its actions. So within that mob you have nutcases, like perhaps the guy in horns, who are anti-police right-wingers. They may be strange bedfellows with BOTH Trump insurrectionists AND Antifa insofar as they are anti-police, anti-government extremists.

The point is that an army of Karens was whipped up into insanity to attack the Capitol. Within that mob, individual nutcases were empowered to act with impunity.

The same Karens who would call the cops if they saw the guy in horns in their own neighborhood, were cheering him on in the background as guys like him pepper sprayed police and engaged in a desperate battle of shield walls in the catacombs of our Capitol.

Those thousands of Karens, who themselves may not be white supremacists or anti-government extremists, are enablers. They’ve lost their minds as a hobby and now are willing to cheer on people who have ACTUALLY lost their minds.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

I think the insurrection failed because there was no one in command, no one with a detailed plan, with contingencies, to seriously take and hold the Capitol.

Sure, there was a plan: "We'll get hold of Pence and some of the Dems and rough them up...hold them hostage perhaps...maybe kill some of them..."

But there were no contingencies, and in fact there was no detailed, clear plan of how to get in and do those things. Some places the barricades were removed, in others the Capitol Police resisted and delayed, even if only a few minutes--allowing those inside to find safe, defensible locations, thus depriving the invaders of the only real possible goals that would mean anything.

Instead, anger was aimed at a symbol, and once the anger washed up the stairs and into the hallways, it had no further goals...petty theft and desecration, chanting and verbal assaults, shooting selfies and congratulating each other...

 

[Stevicus]

I seriously had begun to grow a bit more 'amused' by the clownish antics and faces of the Trumpians who stormed the Capitol building on Wednesday. This could be because, A) I really wanted to view this as not a serious threat? B) because we're only get bits and pieces of information, and not enough to give perspective. I think it's a combination of both.

I just watched this newscast which outlines details that I was unaware of, and perhaps a lot of us aren't of. I very much recommend watching this whole video, but if pressed for time, beginning at 2:30 and beyond where they begin showing footage from within crowds, scenes and details that shed new light I have not seen before. It will warn of some violent scenes, if you're sensitive. But after watching this, there seems something very dark going on in there.

I think they intended to actually execute state senators, as well as Mike Pence. The clowns you see in the news, are not the real dark actors here. If that had succeeded, imagine what today would be looking like, as opposed to what the stunned world is looking at today? It could have been a much, much darker day.

It was definitely bad, but I think it would take a great deal more than a mob attacking the US Capitol to orchestrate any kind of coup against the United States. The rest of the Federal government, along with the military and state governments were all intact and operating. I don't know if there was any kind of coordination or grand plan behind all of this, or if it was all spontaneous. For example, the guy in riot gear and zip ties - was he operating under someone's orders or was he carrying out some bizarre plan on his own?

 

[Brickjectivity]

I’m not so sure
Bull horn guy aka Qanon Shaman protested against antifa. His words, not mine.
I don’t know if the stormers were all racist, but the allegation that some of them being antifa is apparently disputed by those who were in attendance. Such as this gentleman I found through “chud watch.” I think he’s some sort of “Trump rapper.” Or that’s his claim to fame, I dunno

Thanks that is useful.

Wow he's telling jp to shut up. Very entertaining!

Damn. Your politics are far more dramatic than mine.
I fear I don’t have nearly enough popcorn

We live in interesting times. May the nukes rot in their silos and the carriers forget their jets.

 

[Revoltingest]

I seriously had begun to grow a bit more 'amused' by the clownish antics and faces of the Trumpians who stormed the Capitol building on Wednesday. This could be because, A) I really wanted to view this as not a serious threat? B) because we're only get bits and pieces of information, and not enough to give perspective. I think it's a combination of both.

I just watched this newscast which outlines details that I was unaware of, and perhaps a lot of us aren't of. I very much recommend watching this whole video, but if pressed for time, beginning at 2:30 and beyond where they begin showing footage from within crowds, scenes and details that shed new light I have not seen before. It will warn of some violent scenes, if you're sensitive. But after watching this, there seems something very dark going on in there.

I think they intended to actually execute state senators, as well as Mike Pence. The clowns you see in the news, are not the real dark actors here. If that had succeeded, imagine what today would be looking like, as opposed to what the stunned world is looking at today? It could have been a much, much darker day.

Let's say that they were role playing, didn't really intend
to execute the politicians, & were just pretending.
As Kurt Vonnegut said....
“We are what we pretend to be, so we must
be careful about what we pretend to be.”

 

[SomeRandom]

Thanks that is useful.

No worries!

Wow he's telling jp to shut up. Very entertaining!

Yeah, the “chuds” aren’t exactly known for their civility lol
I’ve been watching “MAGA cope” during lockdown. At first it was entertaining, unhealthily so. But still entertaining. Truly some err interesting characters. And some interesting “theories.”
It’s become less funny after recent events though
I fear I will still watch this stuff in spite of myself lol. But I do hope things settle down soon for y’all

We live in interesting times. May the nukes rot in their silos and the carriers forget their jets.

Yeah, the rest of the world is getting a bit anxious about that. Or at least our news reporters are.

 

[Polymath257]

It was definitely bad, but I think it would take a great deal more than a mob attacking the US Capitol to orchestrate any kind of coup against the United States. The rest of the Federal government, along with the military and state governments were all intact and operating. I don't know if there was any kind of coordination or grand plan behind all of this, or if it was all spontaneous. For example, the guy in riot gear and zip ties - was he operating under someone's orders or was he carrying out some bizarre plan on his own?

If he had managed to get Pelosi, Schumer, Pence, and a few others, that would have decapitated the government. That seems to have been his goal.

 

[PureX]

The fact that some of the rioters were carrying zip ties, apparently with the intention of restraining captives, is extremely worrisome. Some of those people clearly intended to "capture" some of their "democratic enemies" for God only knows what purpose. And that's a scenario that could very easily have led to a horrific outcome.

However, whatever they might have managed to do, the U.S. military would not have supported it. So there is no possible coup attempt that could ever succeeded. None. It's simply not possible at this time in our history.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

If he had managed to get Pelosi, Schumer, Pence, and a few others, that would have decapitated the government. That seems to have been his goal.

Briefly, perhaps, but Congress would not have shut down and gone home...only organized military occupation would have the chance of truly shutting down the government...others would have stepped into their places as successors of Pelosi, Shumer, etc....

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Then fact that some of the rioters were carrying zip ties, apparently with the intention of restraining captives, is extremely worrisome. Some of those people clearly intended to "capture" some of their "democratic enemies" for God only knows what purpose. And that's a scenario that could very easily lead to a horrific outcome.

In the case of the individual in the senate chamber, he had just liberated those from a locker of Capitol Police equipment located outside the Senate...

But yes, they are tools with limited use...

 

[Brickjectivity]

I seriously had begun to grow a bit more 'amused' by the clownish antics and faces of the Trumpians who stormed the Capitol building on Wednesday. This could be because, A) I really wanted to view this as not a serious threat? B) because we're only get bits and pieces of information, and not enough to give perspective. I think it's a combination of both.

I just watched this newscast which outlines details that I was unaware of, and perhaps a lot of us aren't of. I very much recommend watching this whole video, but if pressed for time, beginning at 2:30 and beyond where they begin showing footage from within crowds, scenes and details that shed new light I have not seen before. It will warn of some violent scenes, if you're sensitive. But after watching this, there seems something very dark going on in there.

I think they intended to actually execute state senators, as well as Mike Pence. The clowns you see in the news, are not the real dark actors here. If that had succeeded, imagine what today would be looking like, as opposed to what the stunned world is looking at today? It could have been a much, much darker day.

Update: You can see arrest data about it here: May 2020-January 2021 Unrest-Related Arrests and Persons of Interest | mpdc

How about that!

 

[exchemist]

I don't think any of these people had the remotest idea what they were doing, or any kind of plan. All they did when they succeeded - to their surprise - in breaking in, was to sit in people's chairs, pinch bits of furniture and take selfies to show back home. I think they were (are) essentially weak-minded fantasists with no idea how you take over a government.

So I see it as a sort of rather directionless sub-coup attempt. I have no doubt at all that if it had been really organised, there would have been a great deal more damage, perhaps the lynching of representatives, the pre-planned co-opting of like-minded police (of whom there seem to have been a number), probably speeches to the media about what they were doing and why, etc. Just look at any real coup attempt to see the sort of thing that is done.

 

[Stevicus]

Damn. Your politics are far more dramatic than mine.
I fear I don’t have nearly enough popcorn

I've found Arizona politics to be quite entertaining in the 40+ years I've lived here. We've developed a national reputation for crackpot politicians (although it's not really quite as bad as it used to be). You don't really see it as much at the national level, although maybe we'll see more and more crackpot politicians coming out of the woodwork.

 

[Windwalker]

I think the insurrection failed because there was no one in command, no one with a detailed plan, with contingencies, to seriously take and hold the Capitol.

Sure, there was a plan: "We'll get hold of Pence and some of the Dems and rough them up...hold them hostage perhaps...maybe kill some of them..."

But there were no contingencies, and in fact there was no detailed, clear plan of how to get in and do those things. Some places the barricades were removed, in others the Capitol Police resisted and delayed, even if only a few minutes--allowing those inside to find safe, defensible locations, thus depriving the invaders of the only real possible goals that would mean anything.

Instead, anger was aimed at a symbol, and once the anger washed up the stairs and into the hallways, it had no further goals...petty theft and desecration, chanting and verbal assaults, shooting selfies and congratulating each other...

Not sure if you watched the video or not. When you see that paramilitary guy in there in full gear, carrying a large load of zip ties to tie the hands of State Senators behind their backs, I see a plan. Now, that it failed.... sure, blunders were made. Not enough coordination. Poorly planned. Sounds like Trump world. Imagine if Trump were actually a very rational player, and not the charlton businessman that he is. Someone with real vision, not just a broken eight year old.

That's the horrifying part at this point. The groundwork has been laid for a more capable despot to rise to power and completely dismantle government, except for rule in his own image where there is only one party in power, and the rest are only figureheads? That's what's being laid here, unless we can reclaim democracy. I think we've got a real challenge ahead.

 

[SomeRandom]

I've found Arizona politics to be quite entertaining in the 40+ years I've lived here. We've developed a national reputation for crackpot politicians (although it's not really quite as bad as it used to be). You don't really see it as much at the national level, although maybe we'll see more and more crackpot politicians coming out of the woodwork.

Damn. All us Aussies get is politicians wearing budgie smugglers (speedos)