What sacrifice do muslims use for their sins?

[Thorwald Johansen]

In the Christian belief, the O/T scriptures refer to sacrificial lamb offerings to God, as instructed by God. The N/T now has Jesus Christ as the sacrificial LAMB. What do the muslims use as a sacrifice for their sins? Is there any? If not, then would it not mean, that all of their sins would still be with them, on judgement day?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Consider this: Islam is a different religion than Christianity.

Perhaps it's best to look at Islam as it is rather than applying Christian theology to it.

 

[Thorwald Johansen]

Consider this: Islam is a different religion than Christianity.

Perhaps it's best to look at Islam as it is rather than applying Christian theology to it.

I was hoping that a muslim would respond to my thread. I did a great deal of research on this religion. The arabs mostly followed either Judaism or Christianity, before Muhammad 'came on the scene'. Muhammad provided the arabs (assumed descendants of Ishmael) with a way to become 'exalted' over the Israelites. They believe that Moses was in fact, an Ishmael descendant, and not a 'survivor' of the first born slaughter. They believe, in fact, that they are God's chosen people, and not the Israelites. This is very similar to what Lucifer desired, when He wanted to become God, rather than be happy with who he in fact was, as created by God.

I would really like to hear from a muslim.

 

[A Thousand Suns]

In the Christian belief, the O/T scriptures refer to sacrificial lamb offerings to God, as instructed by God. The N/T now has Jesus Christ as the sacrificial LAMB. What do the muslims use as a sacrifice for their sins? Is there any? If not, then would it not mean, that all of their sins would still be with them, on judgement day?

We just pray to God for forgiveness of sins

" ... and turn you all together in repentance to Allah O believers, that you may be successful" An-Noor (24:31)

"Surely Allah loves those who turn unto him in repentance and loves those who purify themselves." (2:222)

"Excepted, however, shall be they that repent, and put themselves to rights, and make known the truth: and it is they whose repentance I shall accept-for I alone am the Acceptor of Repentance, the Dispenser of Grace." (2:160)

 

[HADA]

I would like to reply Thorwald Johansen post. Islam is a different religion than Christianity( thats correct) . We as muslim believe Allah(the only one and true god). From what Thorwald said was totally wrong!!!

Thorwald, i want to say please research more about Islam. Not from Internet,but from Islam books and Islam priest. Today, the fact you read about Islam is not true and believe me, i was and atheist before. I read many book about Islam, and I found out that Islam is beautiful indeed.

He is Allah, the Lord is the one true God. All things depend on Him.He did not give birth nor was born, and no one is equal to him.

Listen
Read phonetically
I hope that I had gave my best explaining to you and please try to read the truth about Islam.

 

[Thorwald Johansen]

I would like to reply Thorwald Johansen post. Islam is a different religion than Christianity( thats correct) . We as muslim believe Allah(the only one and true god). From what Thorwald said was totally wrong!!!

Thorwald, i want to say please research more about Islam. Not from Internet,but from Islam books and Islam priest. Today, the fact you read about Islam is not true and believe me, i was and atheist before. I read many book about Islam, and I found out that Islam is beautiful indeed.

He is Allah, the Lord is the one true God. All things depend on Him.He did not give birth nor was born, and no one is equal to him.

Listen
Read phonetically
I hope that I had gave my best explaining to you and please try to read the truth about Islam.

Thank you for your posting. I researched the Islam faith from many different viewpoints, and then I corresponded with an Imam, by email. I also received a free copy of the Qur'an (in English) from one of the muslim societies. My posting is based on a great deal of literature.

The muslim faith recognizes Moses, Isaiah, Jesus, etc., but does not recognize their teachings per the Bible. The excuse given, is that man has changed the truth to lies. Why then, did the arab nations believe in Judaism or Christianity, before Muhammad? Constantinople (arab) was once the main source of Christianity.

I asked the Imam, if Muhammad experienced Numbers 12:6 (God making Himself known unto Muhammad in a vision, and then speaking unto him in a dream), and the Imam responded that he did not know, but he knew that Muhammad was in a sort of trance. There is nothing biblical about a trance. What does this encompass?

In Christianity, the Bible states that those that Christ loves, He chastises here on earth. They have already been judged and sentenced for their sins. This is the only way that a person can be found 'righteous until the end'. They have already paid for their sins, here on earth.

 

[kai]

Thank you for your posting. I researched the Islam faith from many different viewpoints, and then I corresponded with an Imam, by email. I also received a free copy of the Qur'an (in English) from one of the muslim societies. My posting is based on a great deal of literature.

The muslim faith recognizes Moses, Isaiah, Jesus, etc., but does not recognize their teachings per the Bible. The excuse given, is that man has changed the truth to lies. Why then, did the arab nations believe in Judaism or Christianity, before Muhammad? Constantinople (arab) was once the main source of Christianity.

I asked the Imam, if Muhammad experienced Numbers 12:6 (God making Himself known unto Muhammad in a vision, and then speaking unto him in a dream), and the Imam responded that he did not know, but he knew that Muhammad was in a sort of trance. There is nothing biblical about a trance. What does this encompass?

In Christianity, the Bible states that those that Christ loves, He chastises here on earth. They have already been judged and sentenced for their sins. This is the only way that a person can be found 'righteous until the end'. They have already paid for their sins, here on earth.

with respect i am not sure why you are asking these questions if you have researched the "Islam faith" ?

 

[Thorwald Johansen]

We just pray to God for forgiveness of sins

" ... and turn you all together in repentance to Allah O believers, that you may be successful" An-Noor (24:31)

"Surely Allah loves those who turn unto him in repentance and loves those who purify themselves." (2:222)

"Excepted, however, shall be they that repent, and put themselves to rights, and make known the truth: and it is they whose repentance I shall accept-for I alone am the Acceptor of Repentance, the Dispenser of Grace." (2:160)

How can you ask for forgiveness, while still hating another human being? Even Islam is broken into two separate bodies, with each one hating the other. Islam has all of the appearances of 'believe in what you want, do what you want, say what you want', and ask the Father to forgive you, so that you can continue to do the same things all over again. You judge the world from the point of view, that you are holy, but your actions speak otherwise. It is your will that you are doing, not God's.

 

[Thorwald Johansen]

with respect i am not sure why you are asking these questions if you have researched the "Islam faith" ?

I want to have muslims THINK and not just blindly accept their faith. Why do they believe that Muhammad is a true prophet? What is their proof? From my research, I can find no proof. There is just some guy called Muhammad, that apparently was in a trance, receiving instructions from God. Whoopie!!!!!!!

 

[A Thousand Suns]

The muslim faith recognizes Moses, Isaiah, Jesus, etc., but does not recognize their teachings per the Bible. The excuse given, is that man has changed the truth to lies. Why then, did the arab nations believe in Judaism or Christianity, before Muhammad? Constantinople (arab) was once the main source of Christianity.

Yes that true We Muslims don't follow the entire Bible because it has been corrupted with time---And I can prove the 'How Bible was fabricated'----Also we Muslims believe that some parts of Bible maybe the word of God but not the all of it

I asked the Imam, if Muhammad experienced Numbers 12:6 (God making Himself known unto Muhammad in a vision, and then speaking unto him in a dream), and the Imam responded that he did not know, but he knew that Muhammad was in a sort of trance. There is nothing biblical about a trance. What does this encompass?

Yes thats true we don't know from Hadis weather Muhammad(pbuh) in a vision experience God or not

Also the fact of matter is that all Prophets(pbuh all) had different ways of communicating with God---For e.g God talked directly with Moses

God communicated to Muhammad in both ways through Angel and Directly to God at the occasion of Miraj

In Christianity, the Bible states that those that Christ loves, He chastises here on earth. They have already been judged and sentenced for their sins. This is the only way that a person can be found 'righteous until the end'. They have already paid for their sins, here on earth.

Hmmm where does Bible says "They have already paid for their sins, here on earth."

 

[A Thousand Suns]

How can you ask for forgiveness, while still hating another human being? Even Islam is broken into two separate bodies, with each one hating the other. Islam has all of the appearances of 'believe in what you want, do what you want, say what you want', and ask the Father to forgive you, so that you can continue to do the same things all over again. You judge the world from the point of view, that you are holy, but your actions speak otherwise. It is your will that you are doing, not God's.

To be a Muslim you don't have to join any sect , just follow Quran and Authentic Hadis

In fact according to Quran there should be no sect in Quran---If some Muslims don't follow Quran and end up hating each other its there fault

-3:103 And hold fast, all together, unto the bond with God, and do not create sects amongst you.
-3:105 And be not like those who have drawn apart from one another and have taken to conflicting views after all evidence of the truth has come unto them: for these it is for whom tremendous suffering is in store
-6:159 VERILY, as for those who have broken the unity of their faith and have become sects - thou hast nothing to do with them. Behold, their case rests with God: and in time He will make them understand what they were doing.

 

[Thorwald Johansen]

Yes that true We Muslims don't follow the entire Bible because it has been corrupted with time---And I can prove the 'How Bible was fabricated'----Also we Muslims believe that some parts of Bible maybe the word of God but not the all of it

Yes thats true we don't know from Hadis weather Muhammad(pbuh) in a vision experience God or not

Also the fact of matter is that all Prophets(pbuh all) had different ways of communicating with God---For e.g God talked directly with Moses

God communicated to Muhammad in both ways through Angel and Directly to God at the occasion of Miraj


Hmmm where does Bible says "They have already paid for their sins, here on earth."

Who decided (and how was the decision made) which parts of the Bible were fabricated? Who authorized this screening process? Where does God fit into this screening process?

What do you think the word 'chastise' means, as it is used in the Bible? It means that you are PUNISHED. God does not punish you twice for the same sins. If you chastise your child for doing wrong, do you then, at a later date/time, chastise your child for the same disobedience?

The Bible contains proof (more than one person witnessing an event). If I do not believe these witnesses, then I believe in nothing.

 

[A Thousand Suns]

How can you ask for forgiveness, while still hating another human being? Even Islam is broken into two separate bodies, with each one hating the other. Islam has all of the appearances of 'believe in what you want, do what you want, say what you want', and ask the Father to forgive you, so that you can continue to do the same things all over again. You judge the world from the point of view, that you are holy, but your actions speak otherwise. It is your will that you are doing, not God's.

The biggest proof that Muhammad(pbuh) is Prophet of God is Quran itself

Challenge Of Quran

“And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Surah like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (if there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true. “But if ye cannot – and of a surety you cannot – then fear the Fire whose fuel is Men and Stones – which is prepared for those who reject Faith.”[Al-Qur’an 2:23-24]


"We verily sent Our messengers with clear proofs, and revealed with them the Scripture and the Balance, that mankind may observe right measure"e
Quran - 57:25

 

[Thorwald Johansen]

The biggest proof that Muhammad(pbuh) is Prophet of God is Quran itself

Challenge Of Quran

“And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Surah like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (if there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true. “But if ye cannot – and of a surety you cannot – then fear the Fire whose fuel is Men and Stones – which is prepared for those who reject Faith.”[Al-Qur’an 2:23-24]


"We verily sent Our messengers with clear proofs, and revealed with them the Scripture and the Balance, that mankind may observe right measure"e
Quran - 57:25

Neat trick! I use a book that contains writings that are not witnessed, in order to back up the truth of the book. Try again.

 

[Thorwald Johansen]

To be a Muslim you don't have to join any sect , just follow Quran and Authentic Hadis

In fact according to Quran there should be no sect in Quran---If some Muslims don't follow Quran and end up hating each other its there fault

-3:103 And hold fast, all together, unto the bond with God, and do not create sects amongst you.
-3:105 And be not like those who have drawn apart from one another and have taken to conflicting views after all evidence of the truth has come unto them: for these it is for whom tremendous suffering is in store
-6:159 VERILY, as for those who have broken the unity of their faith and have become sects - thou hast nothing to do with them. Behold, their case rests with God: and in time He will make them understand what they were doing.

If I want to become a serial killer, I don't have to join a sect either. I just have to start killing. However, like those that commit 'JIHADS', ....the more the merrier....let us all do it together!

My previous postings still apply. The only 'godly' parts of the Qur'an, are those reproduced from the Bible. The rest is.....FICTION!

 

[A Thousand Suns]

Who decided (and how was the decision made) which parts of the Bible were fabricated? Who authorized this screening process? Where does God fit into this screening process?

Let this job done by Christian theologians

For example

The Cambridge history of the Bible - Google Books


With the exception of the Pauline letters the New Testament writings were relatively slow in appearing and a high proportion of them are anonymous. (p. 233)

He writes further:

... such external evidence on matters of origin, authorship, sources and date as has come down from the second and succeeding centuries is very meager, and, when itself subjected to critical examination, turns out to be of dubious value, if not worthless. (C. F. Evans, The Cambridge History of the Bible, Vol. I, "The New Testament: The New Testament in the Making", , p. 235)

About the Pauline letters, the author writes:

Further elucidations of the Pauline letters as documents in the Church is faced by three not unconnected problems, their formation into a corpus, their unity and authenticity, and their chronology; and in each case the data are insufficient for a solution. (C. F. Evans, The Cambridge History of the Bible, Vol. I, "The New Testament: The New Testament in the Making", , p. 239)



he Encyclopedia Britannica says about the Gospel of Mark:

Though the author of Mark is probably unknown, authority is traditionally derived from a supposed connection with the Apostle Peter, who had transmitted the traditions before his martyr death under Nero's persecution (c. 64-65). Papias, a 2nd century bishop in Asia Minor, is quoted as saying that Mark had been Peter's amanuensis (secretary) who wrote as he remembered (after Peter's death), though not in the right order... (harmony of the Gospels). (Biblical Literature and Its Critical Interpretation, THE SYNOPTIC GOSPELS, The Gospel According to Mark: Background and overview.)

Regarding the Gospel of Matthew, the encyclopedia says:


Although there is a Matthew named among the various lists of Jesus' disciples, more telling is the fact that the name of Levi, the tax collector who in Mark became a follower of Jesus, in Matthew is changed to Matthew. It would appear from this that Matthew was claiming apostolic authority for his Gospel through this device but that the writer of Matthew is probably anonymous. (Biblical Literature and Its Critical Interpretation, The Gospel According to Matthew.)

Regarding the Gospel of Luke, it says:

The author has been identified with Luke, "the beloved physician," Paul's companion on his journeys, presumably a Gentile (Col. 4:14 and 11; cf. II Tim. 4:11, Philem. 24). There is no Papias fragment concerning Luke, and only late 2nd century traditions claim (somewhat ambiguously) that Paul was the guarantor of Luke's Gospel traditions. The Muratorian Canon refers to Luke, the physician, Paul's companion; Irenaeus depicts Luke as a follower of Paul's gospel. Eusebius has Luke as an Antiochene physician who was with Paul in order to give the Gospel apostolic authority. References are often made to Luke's medical language, but there is no evidence of such language beyond that to which any educated Greek might have been exposed. Of more import is the fact that in the writings of Luke specifically Pauline ideas are significantly missing; while Paul speaks of the death of Christ, Luke speaks rather of the suffering, and there are other differing and discrepant ideas on Law and eschatology. In short, the author of this gospel remains unknown. (Biblical Literature and Its Critical Interpretation, The Gospel According to Luke.)
------> the list goes on

What do you think the word 'chastise' means, as it is used in the Bible? It means that you are PUNISHED. God does not punish you twice for the same sins. If you chastise your child for doing wrong, do you then, at a later date/time, chastise your child for the same disobedience?

I's not sure what are trying to say here

The Bible contains proof (more than one person witnessing an event). If I do not believe these witnesses, then I believe in nothing.

What kind of proof we are talking about?? If its like crucifixion where all the disciples of Jesus(pbuh) fled away---or the proof about bible that we don't know when the original manuscript was written

 

[A Thousand Suns]

Neat trick! I use a book that contains writings that are not witnessed, in order to back up the truth of the book. Try again.

What kind of witness are we talking about??

 

[A Thousand Suns]

If I want to become a serial killer, I don't have to join a sect either. I just have to start killing. However, like those that commit 'JIHADS', ....the more the merrier....let us all do it together!

First , Jihad is something mis-interpreted by the media ,first learn the meaning the meaning of Jihad---before you mis-use the word again

[youtube]klFib4nid7g[/youtube]
YouTube - What is Jihad? By Zakir Naik

My previous postings still apply. The only 'godly' parts of the Qur'an, are those reproduced from the Bible. The rest is.....FICTION!

And this argument has been discussed before on another thread

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2154839-post6.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2154842-post7.html

 

[kai]

I want to have muslims THINK and not just blindly accept their faith. Why do they believe that Muhammad is a true prophet? What is their proof? From my research, I can find no proof. There is just some guy called Muhammad, that apparently was in a trance, receiving instructions from God. Whoopie!!!!!!!

their faith is their proof the same as Christians , In my experience here at RF If you start from an antagonistic stance i don't think many Muslims will bother to answer your questions.

 

[A Thousand Suns]

their faith is their proof the same as Christians ,.

what kind of proof you want??
For e.g Quran Which was revealed to Muhammad(pbuh) by God ,can be proved logically the word of God from three facts

1)Scientific facts told in Quran 1400 years ago
2)Predictions made by Quran about Future came true
3)Literature of Quran---no human being can write something like that

And none of this can be applied to Bible or any other holy scripture