What sexual morals -- or what sort of sexual morals -- are most conducive to a healthy spirituality?

[Mohsen]

Your continued evasion is noted.

Call it a wide berth, from a certain deranged fantasist hiding behind an ego manifesting as an avatar!

Peace

 

[crossfire]

With all of the nastiness being evoked from asking about sex and morality, I can see why women are happier remaining single!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Gay marriage is a joke, only because never, and I mean never in my knowledge are two gay people that loyal to each other that they aren't playing with something on the side or whatever. It was only ever about equality in benefits, but the relationships they have with each other are NEVER the same as heterosexual couples. Please don't bother to convince me otherwise when you have some token friends you know that buck the trend, lol. Even in the case where the couple remains together they are cheating on one another, or end the marriage prematurely. Most of the gay folks I know are neurotic messes because of this, they're always listing on the waves that the environment presents them.

Evidence for all of that?

Also, it needs to be taken into mind that until recently, gay culture was underground and it was difficult to have partnerships the same way straights do (living together and so on) for fear of being found out. That's due to prejudice, not anything intrinsic in homosexuality. Also I'm sure you wouldn't say the same about lesbians. They're often stereotyped as not having much of a sex drive. So you must have been just thinking of gay men, going by bigoted stereotypes as you were.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

A monogamous marriage, regardless of the sexes involved, has shown itself to be best for human flourishing.

 

[Father Heathen]

A socially awkward Internet troll who doesn't have a successful family life brings to me much more question as to whether one is LHP than anything I've stated.

Who exactly are you referring to?

Besides, my commentary is strictly mathematical in nature... Certain activities lead to certain outcomes, and successful people of all walks have certain traits. Success is a measure of happiness more than anything else - your domestic happiness reflects greatly on the spiritual traits you exhibit as well. I will not, however, give credence to the notion that any of this is purely the dominion of any particular religious path, but rather the measure of any true happiness (and if you must, cut it up into various sexual, psychological, and spiritual sections -- though in reality THEY'RE NOT) is non-denominational and similarities will be found across belief systems.

I never said there was anything wrong with heterosexual monogamous marriage, nor that it was exclusively a religious RHP thing.
Perhaps my understanding of the LHP is incorrect, but I was under the impression a lot of it was about personal freedom, celebrating ones individuality, indulging in ones carnal desires, breaking "taboos" and the shackles of tradition, etc. This is why I thought it was odd that you would take a rather prudish attitude toward non-traditional relationships; gay/bi/pan, etc. polyamory, promiscuity, etc.

People tend to compartmentalize these things when they are personally lacking in one of these sections - like cherishing their sexual prowess despite being a single un-marriageable bachelor for the last 20 years or fapping to their "intellectual superiority" despite there being no product thereby produced in as much time. In the end, success and happiness are the same thing and the inability to form lasting intimate relationships even puts into question the devotion to one's spiritual path via that very fact. If you cannot keep a promise to a lover, how can you keep a promise to yourself or a deity? Are you really on a path or just floating around filling your head with a bunch of psuedo-intellectual bric-a-brac because it sounds good? The LHP is my path, but since it is mine I fashion it according to the ultimate outcome I desire. I don't have to be a single basement dweller without a marriage or kids because I don't buy into that stereotypical garbage. I can have everything I want, and I'll get it.

I never said how your lived your life was wrong, but to compartmentalize everyone who doesn't fit your personal mold as a socially inept virgin living in their parent's basement is silly and inaccurate. People are different and what works for one might not work for another, etc. Of course serious, long-term relationships require trust and commitment (although some only seek and are satisfied with short-term flings), but to suggest that only works for monogamous heterosexuals is rather presumptuous and baseless.

 

[Mindmaster]

Fine for men, but what about women? It seems women are happier staying single, if they can emotionally handle the societal pressure to get married.

Despite the gender I mentioned in the post, the standard does apply to both women and men. What benefit does resisting "societal pressure" have? I think both men and women are stronger with a loving partner in their corner. These partnerships aren't a societal construct, they were around before there was a legal paper saying "married" and much more a feature of our DNA than anything - they're a result of 2 million years of evolution oriented to the success of humanity as a species. I'm going to stop short of the typical "what's wrong with you" commentary that most people with my view on the subject seem to smear people, as I don't see it _exactly_ like that. I think it's worth mentioning only in a perspective of giving lip service to successful outcomes in life, not as a prescription or mandate.

 

[crossfire]

Despite the gender I mentioned in the post, the standard does apply to both women and men. What benefit does resisting "societal pressure" have? I think both men and women are stronger with a loving partner in their corner. These partnerships aren't a societal construct, they were around before there was a legal paper saying "married" and much more a feature of our DNA than anything - they're a result of 2 million years of evolution oriented to the success of humanity as a species. I'm going to stop short of the typical "what's wrong with you" commentary that most people with my view on the subject seem to smear people, as I don't see it _exactly_ like that. I think it's worth mentioning only in a perspective of giving lip service to successful outcomes in life, not as a prescription or mandate.

Well, how do you account for the fact that once women become single, according to pew research, two-thirds of them don't look for a partner?
Romance in America

 

[Mindmaster]

Well, how do you account for the fact that once women become single, according to pew research, two-thirds of them don't look for a partner?
Romance in America

There is a lot of missing data here, certainly not enough to establish a 'why'. Whether or not they're looking for relationships the reality is that all successful people have them. In fact, I'll go further as say if you want to be the least successful - become single, transgender, and gay and limit your sexual encounters to hookups. Don't take that is some sort of admonishment of those people, it's just numerical... Certainly, there are exceptions to that, but they are few and far between. Many people also lie about their relationship status - many of the people reporting "not looking" are actually rejected and don't have a choice, but won't accept that. It's far easier to say you aren't looking than you are a hot mess and toxic. If you're _really_ not looking, it just speaks to some psychological problems rather than something else. I mean if your dream person walks right by you and all you have to say is, "I'm not looking", I don't know how to consider that persons faculties as fully functional. So what percentage of these people are certifiable? The Pew Survey doesn't say...

All of your choices have consequences - to be gay means a certain set of the population doesn't like you, to be transgender a certain part of the population thinks you're crazy, and to be single for extend periods of time may look to others like you are having difficulties forming lasting partnerships which will limit your opportunities in all other areas. Being a LHP limits your success to some degree as well. You just have to make these choices in your life based on whether you can live with it.

 

[crossfire]

There is a lot of missing data here, certainly not enough to establish a 'why'.

Would you believe the women if they told you why? Do they even have to state a reason?

Whether or not they're looking for relationships the reality is that all successful people have them.

We'll see how it goes as gender-based pay inequality fades away...

In fact, I'll go further as say if you want to be the least successful - become single, transgender, and gay and limit your sexual encounters to hookups. Don't take that is some sort of admonishment of those people, it's just numerical... Certainly, there are exceptions to that, but they are few and far between.

Like I wrote earlier, we'll see how these statistics change as discrimination against these people change.

Many people also lie about their relationship status - many of the people reporting "not looking" are actually rejected and don't have a choice, but won't accept that. It's far easier to say you aren't looking than you are a hot mess and toxic.

All the better for them to NOT be in a relationship, then.

If you're _really_ not looking, it just speaks to some psychological problems rather than something else.

ROFLMAO! So were the women who are not looking for partners driven crazy by marriage, or by their singleness?

I mean if your dream person walks right by you and all you have to say is, "I'm not looking", I don't know how to consider that persons faculties as fully functional.

"Not looking" means "not looking." Whether it also means "not dreaming" is debatable.

So what percentage of these people are certifiable? The Pew Survey doesn't say...

I'm sure there are always other studies which address this.

All of your choices have consequences - to be gay means a certain set of the population doesn't like you, to be transgender a certain part of the population thinks you're crazy, and to be single for extend periods of time may look to others like you are having difficulties forming lasting partnerships which will limit your opportunities in all other areas. Being a LHP limits your success to some degree as well. You just have to make these choices in your life based on whether you can live with it.

Oh, I agree. So, why do women not look for a partner once they become single? Could it be because they are happier being single? (the consequences of being single) Or are they just too dumb or crazy to decide for themselves when they are happy?

 

[Sunstone]

I've been voluntarily celibate for twenty years now despite fairly regular offers from various nice women to get involved in sexual relationships with them. I've also been insufferably happy. In fact, the last decade has been the happiest of my life. So I tend to see statements to the effect that all celibate adults are dysfunctional and miserable as risible.

By the way @crossfire , from what I've seen in my 60 years, men typically benefit from monogamy far more than women. There are many exceptions to that, but in general, it seems to hold true. Older women, in my experience, tend to know that on some level of their beings, but younger women seem on the whole to be both highly idealistic and emotionally insecure enough to want to get married for life. Of course, some of them are actually cut out for monogamy, but I suspect the percentage who are is much lower than many male egos wish to admit.

I can no longer count the number of married women who've told me that I care more about them as persons than their husbands do. I wonder if things would change if more men knew how unhappy their wives are, but apparently a whole lot of men just don't really care.

 

[Mister Silver]

A monogamous marriage, regardless of the sexes involved, has shown itself to be best for human flourishing.

What five experts have to say about monogamy:
Expert 1: No, We Were Not Meant To Be Monogamous
Expert 2: No, We Weren't Necessarily Meant To Be Monogamous, But That Doesn't Mean It's Wrong
Expert 3: Monogamy Isn't Necessarily Natural
Expert 4: Monogamy Is Recent, And Therefore Not Natural
Expert 5: Monogamy Is Beneficial In Some Circumstances And Detrimental In Others

Are Humans Meant To Be Monogamous? Here's What 5 Researchers Have To Say

Psychology Today has an article on how monogamy is not natural for human beings.

Monogamy Is Not "Natural" For Human Beings

 

[crossfire]

I've been voluntarily celibate for twenty years now despite fairly regular offers from various nice women to get involved in sexual relationships with them. I've also been insufferably happy. In fact, the last decade has been the happiest of my life. So I tend to see statements to the effect that all celibate adults are dysfunctional and miserable as risible.

Same here. I was quite surprised by the unexpected, yet welcome happiness that manifested from separation and divorce. I appreciate this unexpected happiness!

By the way @crossfire , from what I've seen in my 60 years, men typically benefit from monogamy far more than women. There are many exceptions to that, but in general, it seems to hold true. Older women, in my experience, tend to know that on some level of their beings, but younger women seem on the whole to be both highly idealistic and emotionally insecure enough to want to get married for life. Of course, some of them are actually cut out for monogamy, but I suspect the percentage who are is much lower than many male egos wish to admit.

Agreed. I saw some studies about mental illness being higher in married women, but I'll let anyone who is interested in them to search them out for themselves.

I can no longer count the number of married women who've told me that I care more about them as persons than their husbands do. I wonder if things would change if more men knew how unhappy their wives are, but apparently a whole lot of men just don't really care.

Just by looking at the responses to this thread, I can see why!

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

What sexual morals -- or what sort of sexual morals -- are most conducive to a healthy spirituality, and why?

I'm a virgin and intend to stay that way, but here are my two cents:

1. Consent is the Prime Directive. If a partner cannot legally consent, that partner is off limits.
2. For toys and other such things, if the object doesn't have artificial intelligence enough to consider "self", then it's good.
3. Make sure everyone knows the safe words.

Gay marriage is a joke, only because never, and I mean never in my knowledge are two gay people that loyal to each other that they aren't playing with something on the side or whatever. It was only ever about equality in benefits, but the relationships they have with each other are NEVER the same as heterosexual couples. Please don't bother to convince me otherwise when you have some token friends you know that buck the trend, lol. Even in the case where the couple remains together they are cheating on one another, or end the marriage prematurely. Most of the gay folks I know are neurotic messes because of this, they're always listing on the waves that the environment presents them.

I can't think of any hetero marriage in my family tree that wasn't a mess, adultery included, as well as abuse. I think, therefore, hetero marriage is a joke.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

What five experts have to say about monogamy:
Expert 1: No, We Were Not Meant To Be Monogamous
Expert 2: No, We Weren't Necessarily Meant To Be Monogamous, But That Doesn't Mean It's Wrong
Expert 3: Monogamy Isn't Necessarily Natural
Expert 4: Monogamy Is Recent, And Therefore Not Natural
Expert 5: Monogamy Is Beneficial In Some Circumstances And Detrimental In Others

Are Humans Meant To Be Monogamous? Here's What 5 Researchers Have To Say

Psychology Today has an article on how monogamy is not natural for human beings.

Monogamy Is Not "Natural" For Human Beings

What does that have to do with what I said? Monogamy is still the best we have when it comes to the flourishing of partners, children and society. The places were monogamy isn't the norm are crapholes where women and children are treated like garbage. I mean, murder is "natural", too. Doesn't mean it's good to do it. Even the second article pretty much says similar.

 

[Mister Silver]

Monogamy is still the best we have when it comes to the flourishing of partners, children and society.

Cheating partners and high divorce rates beg to differ. It seems having to go against one's nature by adhering to monogamy is precisely what makes people cheat; and cheating leads to divorce.

The places were monogamy isn't the norm are crapholes where women and children are treated like garbage.

That's a stretch.

I mean, murder is "natural", too.

No, murder is not natural. Psychopaths think it is, of course, but then again they're psychopaths.

 

[crossfire]

Agreed. I saw some studies about mental illness being higher in married women, but I'll let anyone who is interested in them to search them out for themselves.

Here's one! (written by a man.)
https://campus.fsu.edu/bbcswebdav/institution/academic/social_sciences/sociology/Reading Lists/Mental Health Readings/Gove-SocialForces-1972.pdf

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Cheating partners and high divorce rates beg to differ. It seems having to go against one's nature by adhering to monogamy is precisely what makes people cheat; and cheating leads to divorce.



That's a stretch.



No, murder is not natural. Psychopaths think it is, of course, but then again they're psychopaths.

You're not understanding what I'm saying. The "it's natural" argument is a fallacy. Something is natural when it occurs in nature or has an innate root (biological impulse, for example). Plenty of things are natural that are bad for us or we don't allow as societies. I gave murder as an example. Despite what you think, killing each other is a natural thing and it's hardly something only psychopath do. We're a violent ape species, more similar to warlike chimps in our behavior. Even murder is only a legal concept. We allow the state to kill.

Monogamy may not come naturally to us but it's still the best family model we have. Sacrifice is a part of family so cheating is a form of selfishness in many cases (believe me, I know this firsthand). It particularly "tames" males and redirects their efforts to caring for their family instead of looking for another female to add to their harem or hump and throw away. Women are treated better in societies were monogamous marriage is the norm and so are children.
Monogamy reduces major social problems of polygamist cultures

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Here's one! (written by a man.)
https://campus.fsu.edu/bbcswebdav/institution/academic/social_sciences/sociology/Reading Lists/Mental Health Readings/Gove-SocialForces-1972.pdf

That paper is from 1972. Are you kidding?

 

[crossfire]

That paper is from 1972. Are you kidding?

Is there any reason to believe that this paper is influenced by special interests for propaganda purposes?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Is there any reason to believe that this paper is influenced by special interests for propaganda purposes?

I'm saying that it's outdated. Do you have anything more recent?