What Should Be Done About Erotic Dance?

[Sunstone]

Please assume, for the sake of discussion, that you are a social engineer concerned with the betterment of society. Further assume, if you will, that you firmly believe the sexual objection of women is profoundly wrong. Moreover, you are aware that it is typical for people watching erotic dancers (i.e. strippers) to sexually objectify them. Next, please assume that you wish to change that.

Now, here are two strategies for changing things. Please choose one of them:

(1) Abolish (ban) erotic dance by law.

(2) Do not abolish erotic dance, but do any number of things -- whatever it takes -- to both keep erotic dance and reduce or eliminate the tendency of people watching it to sexually objectify the dancers.

If you have chosen the first strategy, please explain in the thread why you have chosen that strategy.

If you have chosen the second strategy, please explain in the thread (1) why you have chosen that strategy, and (2) the tactics you will use to implement it.

Note: For the purposes of this thread, let's define the "sexual objectification" of someone as thinking of a person as no more than their sexuality, and treating them as if that were true. So, for instance, if you were to sexually objectify a woman, you might ignore everything else about her -- her intelligence, her interests in life, her personality, her behavior, etc. -- except her sexual attributes. Or, you might put a sexual "spin" on everything she does and says ("You feel sick and want to go home? Hey, I have a home! Why don't you come back to my place and have sex with me?").

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I chose to reform erotic dance.

How would I do it? Not exactly sure yet. That's a good question.

 

[DallasApple]

Uhh...me too.Im with Mystic..

Only thing I can think is raise boys(and girls) to not "forget" that a sensual "sexual" display by a woman is not separate from her humanity as a whole person.You can admire her..without FORGETTING she is "more" than her sexual parts or allure.

Pretty much teach the kids healthy views from the beginning.Sexuality is a "part" of us.To be embraced and enjoyed.Leaving out the rest cheapens .You have to "mix " it all together.Then you get the bigger experience.

 

[DallasApple]

Oh one more thing.Sexual/sensual/ doesn't equate I can now lower you to "less than"..

Like look how Marilyn Monroe was treated.She is a good example of "how not to treat a sensual sexual woman".

 

[LuisDantas]

I don't think it is the dance itself that objectifies the woman. It is rather the lack of desire of the people watching to perceive her as a person.

So I suppose the reform would involve some kind of respectful interaction with the dancer prior to the dance itself. And, of course, her full right to simply decide not to dance at all if she does not feel duly valued as a person.

It is an intriguing scenario, come to think of it.

 

[Sunstone]

I chose to reform erotic dance.

Why?

How would I do it? Not exactly sure yet.

When you think of something, please let me know. I'm quite interested.

 

[Sunstone]

I don't think it is the dance itself that objectifies the woman. It is rather the lack of desire of the people watching to perceive her as a person.

Agreed. I don't think I objectify the dancers, so I'm pretty confident it is not necessary to do so.

So I suppose the reform would involve some kind of respectful interaction with the dancer prior to the dance itself. And, of course, her full right to simply decide not to dance at all if she does not feel duly valued as a person.

Thanks! If you come up with anything else, please chime right in!

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Does anyone think reforming erotic dance will balance out the gender divide?

 

[Penumbra]

Please assume, for the sake of discussion, that you are a social engineer concerned with the betterment of society. Further assume, if you will, that you firmly believe the sexual objection of women is profoundly wrong. Moreover, you are aware that it is typical for people watching erotic dancers (i.e. strippers) to sexually objectify them. Next, please assume that you wish to change that.

Now, here are two strategies for changing things. Please choose one of them:

(1) Abolish (ban) erotic dance by law.

(2) Do not abolish erotic dance, but do any number of things -- whatever it takes -- to both keep erotic dance and reduce or eliminate the tendency of people watching it to sexually objectify the dancers.

If you have chosen the first strategy, please explain in the thread why you have chosen that strategy.

If you have chosen the second strategy, please explain in the thread (1) why you have chosen that strategy, and (2) the tactics you will use to implement it.

Note: For the purposes of this thread, let's define the "sexual objectification" of someone as thinking of a person as no more than their sexuality, and treating them as if that were true. So, for instance, if you were to sexually objectify a woman, you might ignore everything else about her -- her intelligence, her interests in life, her personality, her behavior, etc. -- except her sexual attributes. Or, you might put a sexual "spin" on everything she does and says ("You feel sick and want to go home? Hey, I have a home! Why don't you come back to my place and have sex with me?").

I don't know how to reform it, but I wouldn't ban it, so I voted to reform it.

 

[Sunstone]

Does anyone think reforming erotic dance will balance out the gender divide?

Interesting question, albeit a bit off topic. But at any rate, I would suppose it might help, but then how much? That would seem to me to depend on how popular it would be after it was reformed. That is, on how many people it could possibly influence.

What do you think?

 

[Sunstone]

I don't know how to reform it, but I wouldn't ban it, so I voted to reform it.

Thanks for choosing between the given options. I know it's not quite fair to force such a narrow choice. Why wouldn't you ban it?

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Interesting question, albeit a bit off topic. But at any rate, I would suppose it might help, but then how much? That would seem to me to depend on how popular it would be after it was reformed. That is, on how many people it could possibly influence.

What do you think?

It is a difficult question, I would think how we view men and women would have to change first. And also can in be reformed in a way that is safe for the dancers, considering a lot off strippers are sexually assault especially during private dances?

 

[Penumbra]

Thanks for choosing between the given options. I know it's not quite fair to force such a narrow choice. Why wouldn't you ban it?

I don't want to ban almost anything. I feel like I shouldn't tell people what they're allowed or not allowed to do with their own bodies, time, or money, unless there is a very compelling reason to do so. I don't want to tell two consenting adults that they can't exchange money for an erotic dance.

 

[Sunstone]

It is a difficult question...

Indeed. It's difficult even for me, and I've thought about it for years.

...I would think how we view men and women would have to change first.

Would you suggest some of those ways, please?

And also can in be reformed in a way that is safe for the dancers, considering a lot off strippers are sexually assault especially during private dances?

You know, that's a good question. I know several strippers as friends, but I've only heard mention being grabbed, etc. a few times. That could be because I relatively seldom discuss stripping with them, though. If I went by my hunches, I would say it depended somewhat -- but not entirely -- on the club they worked at. Some clubs have pretty strict policies on that enforced by very beefy bouncers.

 

[DallasApple]

I think as long as women who AREN'T even exotic dancers are being objectified? You are starting from backwards trying to figure out how exotic dancers should not be.

 

[dgirl1986]

So women erotic dancers are objectifying women but male erotic dancers are not objectifying men?

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

i think as long as women who aren't even exotic dancers are being objectified? You are starting from backwards trying to figure out how exotic dancers should not be.

preach!

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

"Would you suggest some of those ways, please?"

Not raising children according to their sex.
Not marketing products accorded to sex (Obviously I get that sanitary pads would be marketed to women, but I mean products that are not gender specific but are marketed to a specific gender) A change of language which doesn't have concepts for male/female man/woman-more gender neutral.

 

[Sunstone]

So women erotic dancers are objectifying women but male erotic dancers are not objectifying men?

I don't know to whom you are addressing your question, but I'm willing to take a shot at it. I think it's not a matter of women erotic dancers objectifying women, but rather a matter of the audience of a female erotic dancer objectifying her. And, similarly, it's a matter of the audience of male erotic dancer objectifying him. Does that make any sense?

 

[Sunstone]

"Would you suggest some of those ways, please?"

Not raising children according to their sex.
Not marketing products accorded to sex (Obviously I get that sanitary pads would be marketed to women, but I mean products that are not gender specific but are marketed to a specific gender) A change of language which doesn't have concepts for male/female man/woman-more gender neutral.

Good start!