To me the God of the Bible can lay claim to God's spirit. God's spirit is what God sends forth - Psalms 104:30
As with Adam, we find at Job 33:4 God's spirit made Job and God's breath brought Job to life. - see Job 33:4
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
What the Bible teaches about the holy spirit
- Thread starter Eli G
- Start date
As with Adam, we find at Job 33:4 God's spirit made Job and God's breath brought Job to life. - see Job 33:4
I wonder which verse(s) you might have in mind___________
Jesus said to worship his God with spirit and truth at John 4:23-24
A spirited worship would be a lively worship. Not a dead worship void of spiritual works.
To worship with ' truth ' would be 'religious truth ' as Jesus taught that Scripture is 'religious truth' at John 17:17
nPeace
Veteran Member
So you don't agree that God controls the spirit?
It is us that has no control over the Spirit, no religion has control of the Spirit of God.
In the farewell discourses in John, where the Spirit is given the personal characteristics of an "advocate" and "helper" (this and not 'comforter' is the meaning of "the other paraclete"). The Spirit is the representative on earth of the risen Christ. He is sent by the Father in the name of Jesus. So he speaks not of himself but merely recalls what Jesus himself said.
What verses do you have in mind _____________
In some grammar rules a neuter "it" can be put in the male gender although remaining a neuter "it".
God sends forth 'His spirit' (Psalms 104:30) Not God sends forth Himself.
In the Catholic Douay, Numbers 11:17; Numbers 11:25 lets us know God's spirit is a neuter "it".
Sure, modern versions take the liberty to change "it" to he or him to try to make God's spirit a person.
Even in modern English we speak of a car or a ship as a 'she' but we know they remain a neuter "it".
Sure, God is a Spirit ( a Spirit person ) but God's spirit (Psalms 104:30) is with as lower-case letter 's'.
Taking the liberty to use an Upper-Case letter "S" does Not change 'God's spirit' to be a person.
nPeace
Veteran Member
So God controls his spirit. He sends it where he wants, and uses it for the purpose he wants.
Do you disagree?
It would be convenient for your argument if 'Persons' in the creeds meant 'Person' in the modern and typical sense, however it never has. The word in the creed does not mean 'Person' like when you are talking about a person but is poorly translated. Both I and you have access to the way the trinitarian concepts have been developed and don't have to guess what is meant by them.
Influential 20th century theologians Karl Barth (1886–1968) and Karl Rahner (1904–84) endorse one-self Trinity theories, and suggest replacements for the term “Person”. They argue that in modern times “person” has come to mean a self. But three divine selves would be three gods. Hence, even if “Person” should be retained as traditional, its meaning in the context of the Trinity should be expounded using phrases like “modes of being” (Barth) or “manners of subsisting” (Rahner) (Ovey 2008, 203–13; Rahner 1997, 42–5, 103–15). Trinity (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy).
Rather, it shows that God is not a person; and it is up to you to prove otherwise if you believe otherwise. Since God is not a person as you define person, then the Father can be consubstantial with the Holy Spirit, theoretically.
In the Bible I find God is a person, a person to whom the resurrected Jesus appeared - Hebrews 9:24
God's spirit I also find is with a lower-case letter "s" at Psalms 104:30
Perhaps to be ushered into the presence is to be taken from all that is human and to become inhuman.
There is something called 'Personification'. It is a writing technique which is heavily used for giving human attributes to things that are not human. It is also a feature of many languages. While it is no so common in English we do use it regularly. For example we'll say "It does not need to be repaired" instead of saying "There is no need to repair that." We have no trouble with this personification, and the item need not be a person in order for us to say it needs or does not need something. Similarly you can be ushered into the presence without God being a person.
The LORD then came down in the cloud and spoke to him. Taking some of the spirit that was on Moses, he bestowed it on the seventy elders; and as the spirit came to rest on them, they prophesied* but did not continue.
Now two men, one named Eldad and the other Medad, had remained in the camp, yet the spirit came to rest on them also. They too had been on the list, but had not gone out to the tent; and so they prophesied in the camp.
So, when a young man ran and reported to Moses, “Eldad and Medad are prophesying in the camp,
Joshua, son of Nun, who from his youth had been Moses’ aide, said, “My lord, Moses, stop them.
But Moses answered him, “Are you jealous for my sake? If only all the people of the LORD were prophets! If only the LORD would bestow his spirit on them!”
I also notice the difference among the denominations in praying the Our Father, for us it is 'Our Father who.....' for others it is 'Our Father which.....'
No I do not disagree, keeping in mind the necessity of decerning the Spirit.
Yes, the LORD (<-Tetragrammaton YHWH) came down in the cloud and spoke.... bestowed "it" God's spirit ......
God's spirit being a neuter "it" at Numbers 11:17; Numbers 11:25.
Yes, Jesus did Not repeat the exact Model Prayer words as found at Luke 11:2-4 & Matthew 6:9-13 & Mark 11:25.
Both " Our Father which...." and Our Father who...." places Our Father in the heavens (Mark 11:25)
Also, Christ's Lord's Prayer is Jesus' prayer found in John 17th chapter. Which is different from the Model Prayer.
I think we need to keep in mind that God's spirit (Psalms 104:30) is with a lower-case letter "s".
Whereas, 'God is a Spirit' is referring to God as a Spirit Person - Hebrews 9:24
Wisdom in the Bible is personified, but resurrected Jesus was in front of his God - Hebrews 9:24.
Resurrected heavenly Jesus is at God's right hand - Romans 8:34; Revelation 3:12; Revelation 3:21; Psalms 110.
Thus: both Jesus and God are real persons. Real Spirit persons.
I'm sure that to some 'Real spirit persons' makes sense, but to me it sounds like physical-not-physical, like opposites pushed together. The idea of God having a literal hand is wrong to me and is one of the characteristics of pagan gods which are to be rejected by those who believe in God. An actual hand? I think that is mistaking figures of speech.
It raises the question as to which was original, did Luke shortening the original, or did Matthew lengthen it. I would seem that Luke would not have taken it upon himself to shorting Jesus' words, so more than likely, Matthew's is an addition.
Good point.
Sure there are only two Model Prayer accounts but that does Not mean Jesus only gave the example only twice.
In his 3 1/2 year ministry Jesus could have given the model prayer many repeated times at different locations.